• SPORTS
    AND
    GAMING
  • Sports & Gaming Moderators: ghostfreak

2009 MLB thread! play ball...

i usually agree with you smotpoker, but not in this case. the simple fact of the matter is that not EVERYONE on the teams are dopers and some of them, believe or not, actually ARE oblivious to that type of thing. you can't take away their championship due to one player having been on the juice if most of the team wasn't and if they didn't even know manny was. now, i admit, it's unlikely that some of the guys didn't know he was juicing, and it's unlikely to think he was the ONLY one, but still... you can't take that win away unless you know everyone was on the juice. it's not fair to those who were out there giving their all and doin it right.

realistically... a 50 game suspension is huge. have you ever been injured and missed some games in your life? my senior year in baseball i broke my arm during the 4th game and had to ride the pine the remainder of the year. it was the most difficult thing i'd ever had to do in regards to sport. sit there and watch my team play knowing i can't be out there helping. that was probably only about 20 games or so... 50 games... yeah he brought it on himself, but trust me, a 50 game suspension will not be a good time what-so-ever for someone who wants to be out on the field. juicer or not, he loves this game and he just took himself out of about 1/3 of the remainder of the season.

what i should be saying... you can't punish the team, you can punish the player. stiffer punishments in the future could be used. say a player juiced regularly... give them the season off. then they're not an issue for a controversial WS and they have to sit and sulk for an entire season and until spring training starts back up. i think that's more than fair, but you can't take a world series title away because not everyone was involved and despite popular belief... more than likely... more people probably had NO idea than those who were in the know.
 
It's not that what you are saying is hard to understand, it's that you are throwing around a lot of assumptions about a team knowingly employing a player who is using steroids which I don't necessarily agree with.
 
Points taken. I guess I just don't think it's right that Boston gets to keep the glory and recognition of being called the best in 2004 and 2007 when a HUGE part of their offense was cheating along the way.

The World Series rings let Boston claim to be the champs, but imo, which is what it is, they're nothing but a bunch of, for the most part, good ball players who certainly benefited from a having one of their players using steroids to give them that extra homerun power.

It's not really fair, is it?

And while I'll admit that it would be unfortunate and just plain shitty for the rest of the team to lose their world series rings, it goes along the same lines as a coach saying to his players in practice "Because Joe skipped some of his pushups, the rest of you half to run laps". No one would argue that this is fair to the rest of the team, but the key word here is "team". All of the Red Sox players were a team, not individuals, And a single players actions SHOULD affect his whole team.
Hey, Mannys actions of making himself a stronger, better hitter, at the expense of pitchers who didn't have an advantage by using 'roids, isn't right.
He helped to get the Sox in the WS by juicing, so it would only be appropriate to take away the prize that he helped his team earn by juicing.

I take Ryan and Finders points respectfully, but I still think what I recommended would be the only real way of doing justice.

Maybe it would be a wakeup call to players, if you do steroids, not only are you jeopardizing your health, reputation, and $$$, but you also run the risk of forfeiting any titles, wins, etc you earned by cheating.
Maybe this would make clean, decent players speak up more and help rid MLB of dirty, cheating garbage like Manny Ramirez.
 
Last edited:
I agree bout not screwing a TEAM for one.

To show they cared they could just start rocket launching roid positive players.
 
I agree bout not screwing a TEAM for one.

To show they cared they could just start rocket launching roid positive players.

My point exactly! Manny should get that he is jeopardizing his whole team by doing steroids! If a player thought his actions could jeopardize his whole teams chances, I think it would cut down greatly on their wanting to do roids. I don't think any player would want to live with themself if they knew they were the reason their team didn't get to have that championship!


On something unrelated, Ryan did you go the Buckeye Spring Football game? Terrelle looked very good, what do you think?
 
i hate to admit it, but i don't follow buckeye football as closely as i should. i AM a collegiate football fan and the bucks ARE my team, but i'm not a die hard like most of the state. :D so unfortunately i have to say no, i didn't go to the game (though i heard attendance was HUGE) and i don't know how terrelle looked. sorry, buddy!

oh and to stay on topic, retroactively i still don't think you can take a championship title away from someone. however if they institute a rule that roids void your title NOW... then you'd have to clean everyone up now, then start a new chapter. test everyone prior to the post season and either eliminate the teams with a certain percentage of productivity based on roid use or some other form of that type of act. really, the unfortunate thing is... roids will ALWAYS be involved, it's how pure the intentions of the rest of the teams are that are gonna have to count. now, if you start holding GM's and managers accountable for the actions of the players they bring into their system ie. let the GM's and managers do whatever they have to to assure their team is clean and stays clean under any means necessary barring a breach of legality... THEN... you can start taking titles away retroactively should it be discovered a major contributor was juicing.

i don't know... it's a tough line to walk realistically.
 
^How about all those WS A-Rod helped the Yanks win? Gonna revoke those too?

A-Rod's a cheater, but he can't even cheat properly, he's never even been in a World Series. You can take Clemens' title away though.

smotpoker's reasoning is used in all sorts of other places. Michigan had their Final Four appearences stripped because some but not all players were violating rules. High school teams forfeit games if it is found out they used ineligible players whether it was intentional or not.

The problem is how do you retroactively say Manny was cheating in 2004. No one has any proof of that, so you can't take that away from the Sox.
 
Its pure and simple, you bust for roids you are out of the game along with your stats.

WS however shouldnt be taken away cause then you will punish 25 others for ones fuck up.
 
SO the Red Sox are allowed to win a WS with a man whose hitting power is increased by using steroids, but other teams, for example the Reds, have to do it clean?

Yeah that's really fair to teams who do play the game the right way huh?
 
Yep take away all World Series Titles that a team won by cheating by allowing one of their players to juice up.

By that logic, you'd have to take away the accomplishments of EVERYBODY who cheated or went against the rules of the game, and I'm talking about beyond steroids.

Gaylord Perry, the most famous ball doctorer or all-time, would need to be thrown out of the Hall of Fame. Same goes for Tris Speaker and Ty Cobb, who gambled on games in their days. And let's not forget the plethora or players who popped greenies EVERY DAY for years.

It's funny how fans and writers for years welcomed guys like these, but now they try to slam the door because the time-honored art of cheating just got a bit too sophisticated.

Look, I'm in no way condoning steroid use, but it really fucking kills me how all these people are shouting this and that about 'roids when all different kinds of cheating have been going on for years, with no punishments or consequences.
 
"Time Honored Art of Cheating", oh lord what next...

You make cheating sound like it's a good thing. And yeah as extreme as it sounds you should take away the accomplishments of cheaters. They disgraced the game and other players by committing what basically amounts to fraud. So yeah ban them all.
 
i think "time honored art of cheating" was said with tongue in cheek. ;)

but realistically, we'll never know who all did and didn't cheat, nor will we ever know who does and doesn't so as much as it pains me to say, the argument really is pointless and always will be. the best we can do is minimize it, but we'll never eliminate it.
 
SO the Red Sox are allowed to win a WS with a man whose hitting power is increased by using steroids, but other teams, for example the Reds, have to do it clean?

Yeah that's really fair to teams who do play the game the right way huh?

with the way testing standards are getting upgraded, they wont make it that far (WS) without being caught previously.
 
my cable company pulled WGN so i can't watch the cubbies games anymore. :(


Mlb.tv is decent, has had some teething problems, but if your not in the local area, you should be able to watch every Cubs( or any MLB) games for $20 a month.

I live in the UK and it allows me to watch every Dodger game, either live or archived :) So for me its well worth the 20 a month.

http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/subscriptions/index.jsp
 
NL Central 3 teams with 20 wins or more! What a division! And unlike all the other divisions where you only have to be better than 4 other teams (or in the case of the AL West just 3), in the NL central you have to beat out five teams to get an automatic playoff spot! So 20 wins in what is by far the hardest and most unfiar division in baseball is pretty damn good! And my Reds are one of them! :)
 
Rose supports A-Rod, loathes steroids

Pete Rose believes players who use steroids commit a transgression far worse than his admitted betting on the game, but Major League Baseball's disgraced hit king said he'd back an admitted user like Alex Rodriguez for the Hall of Fame.

Rodriguez said in February that he used performance-enhancing drugs while playing for the Texas Rangers during a three-year period beginning in 2001.

"I'm willing to give a guy a second chance," Rose said in an interview on "The Dan Patrick Show." He later went on to say that steroid use is worse than someone such as himself betting on his own team to win.

Rose was banned from baseball in 1989 for betting on games while managing the Cincinnati Reds. The 68-year-old Rose is not eligible to be on the Hall of Fame ballot.

"When you take steroids you have a direct outcome of the game," Rose said. "That's the integrity of the game. And when you can change records when you do something illegal, it's just not right. ... Baseball records are sacred. If you do something illegal to surpass those records, it's just not good."

Rose, however, considers Barry Bonds to be the all-time home run king because "he hit the home runs. ... I don't think anyone has proven that he took steroids."

Bonds long has been shadowed by allegations that he used performance-enhancing drugs and was indicted in 2007 for perjury and obstruction of justice for telling a federal grand jury he did not knowingly use PEDs.

He hit the last of his MLB-record 762 home runs in 2007.

"With Bonds, how many home runs are you going to take away from him?" Rose asked. "That's a tough situation for the commissioner. ... It's a mess."

Source.

lol
 
poor poor charlie hustle.

he needs to shut that yapper! i love the guy and i feel absolutely horrible that he's still being kept out of the hall of fame. let's be honest, his play on the field was enough to get him in on the first ballot, but because he sullied the game by betting on his team (though he claims he's never bet AGAINST his team) he's been unfairly kept out of the hall of fame so far for life. all things aside, whether you like the guy or not, whether you agree with anything he says or not. he SHOULD be in the hall of fame.

but it sounds like now he's just chiming in to further his own agenda. he's showing forgiveness to players like a-rod, bonds, etc. to put it in everyone's heads that "he's right, if bonds, a-rod, manny, etc. get into the hall of fame... then so too should pete rose."

fact of the matter is (in my opinion) rose SHOULD be in the HOF. it's a no brainer to me. it's become a personal thing at this point. baseball just doesn't like the man and is being stubborn anymore.
 
IM GONNA TOOT MY OWN HORN!

The dodgers are looking INCREDIBLE!

there finally finding there way without manny. The Offense is HOT. pitching is strengthening.

did you guys see the game with the phillys? they came out and scored a bunch of runs, took the lead and retook the lead in OT. what a game

And today with the marlins. back to back homers. and xavier paul is looking great. either, kemp EVEN JUAN PIERRE is playing great!

once again boys. GOOO DODGERS!


I love ellay
 
Top