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Tapering 15 years Methadone quit clinic need help tapering

Beenhead

Beenhead

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Nov 15, 2000
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Deep in a Floridian Mangrove Forest
I had been on Methadone for a long time. It has never taken away cravings and about a year ago I started using fentanyl on the side to catch a buzz. I started using about a gram of the fent a dope a week along wih 170mg Methadone.

Well suprise, my clinic started testing for Fent and I got hit. They took my takehomes and I travel for work, have a great job, family, etc and never failed a test before, so I told them Im out.

I have read about Bernese Method, and have been wanting to switch to suboxone and leave the clinic for a long time so this I considered my time.
I saved my split dose for a week, and then left,
Went immediately down to 90 a week, then tapered the split dose and on Xmas eve jumped off at 30mg methadone.

Monday after Christmas I started Suboxone microdose.
0.25, 0.5, 1, 2, 4, 6, 12 and on 12 day drop
Fent.
Well it went ok till day 6 when the precipitated withdrawals got worse and the fent would take the edge off. Day 7 no fent was hell. Hallucinations, manic, huge double vision, just frightening.
It scared me and I cracked.

So now I am taking clonidine, Agmatine, and fent.
I am down to like 2-3 bags per day. A couple weeks ago I was at a gram every day and a half.

im going 4 hours between doses, and 12 hours at night. Im sleeping okayish, and not feeling much anxiety or other WD.
My problem is my stomach. I feel nauseous around 3pm-7pm every day. Its hard to eat. I havent been able to poop much which is odd.

loperamide seems to help the nausea as does a little fent.
My dr is no help. Is stomach problems common? Should I quit and go back to the clinic...

I want to feel normal, then taper down. I feel close but my stomach gets so uncomfortable
Any ideas?
Thanks yall
 
Yeah, go back to clinic.

I don't think its worth it to suicide withdrawal like this.

Don't think subs will work. But if you wanted to give them a try.

But you can also stabilize probably on a low dose now. Then taper down if you want off. Not logical to try and cold turkey this.
 
I am absolutely not cold turkeying!

I have not taken any methadone in 3 weeks.
I have been taking the minumum amount of Fent to keep me functional

I hope to get stable on this dose of fent.
Then start tapering with clonidine etc and either jumping to subs or kratom and tapering further

Its just odd how my stomach is ok until 3-6pm then sucks for a few hours each day.

Loperamide seems to help 1-2mg but am I just delaying the inevitable or should I keep taking loperamide?

I would have thought by now id be stable. But I just refuse to take much more fent per dose.

I can work, take care of kids, think, its just I am not eating much, and my GI nust feels like shit

I have no major cravings, anxiety, sweating etc at this dose. But maybe I still have some long acting withdrawal in the gut?
 
Beenhead said:
I am absolutely not cold turkeying!
Click to expand...

You are essentially cold turkeying 170mg of methadone and taking whatever you can to make yourself feel better.

Not gonna work.

If you couldn't stop whatever habit in the past, stayed on methadone for 15 years, using on top of 170mg; what makes you think you can stop now?

I don't even think subs will work for you. They do nothing for long term methadone patients. Read around. They did very little for me. Kratom is even sillier. Do some and tell me if you feel it. I never felt it in my life.

Go back to the clinic and stabilize on the lowest dose you can and taper like a normal person if you want off. What you are doing now is only going to end up terrible. If you do this, you will be the 1st guy in history to kick 15 years of methadone with dope. The guys before you either died, went to jail, or ended back at the clinic depending on how long they kept trying.

Coming off 15 years of 170mg doses, your body is going to take years to stabilize. If someone told me they were on 170mg for 15 years I would bet my life savings this guy is a lifer. The only way off would be like a 1mg a week taper. Very slowly. Along with the absolute best healthy lifestyle possible.

Also you are damaging your body by not eating. 3 weeks off methadone you should be eating like a mad man.

You gonna come out this withdrawal retarded man. Or in deep shit. Be careful. Again, best is to get back to clinic and stabilize, then come down slow. If even possible. If you still have access to the internet in 1 year let me know how you are doing.
 
TheInvisibleStoner said:
You are essentially cold turkeying 170mg of methadone and taking whatever you can to make yourself feel better.

Not gonna work.

If you couldn't stop whatever habit in the past, stayed on methadone for 15 years, using on top of 170mg; what makes you think you can stop now?

I don't even think subs will work for you. They do nothing for long term methadone patients. Read around. They did very little for me. Kratom is even sillier. Do some and tell me if you feel it. I never felt it in my life.

Go back to the clinic and stabilize on the lowest dose you can and taper like a normal person if you want off. What you are doing now is only going to end up terrible. If you do this, you will be the 1st guy in history to kick 15 years of methadone with dope. The guys before you either died, went to jail, or ended back at the clinic depending on how long they kept trying.

Coming off 15 years of 170mg doses, your body is going to take years to stabilize. If someone told me they were on 170mg for 15 years I would bet my life savings this guy is a lifer. The only way off would be like a 1mg a week taper. Very slowly. Along with the absolute best healthy lifestyle possible.

Also you are damaging your body by not eating. 3 weeks off methadone you should be eating like a mad man.

You gonna come out this withdrawal retarded man. Or in deep shit. Be careful. Again, best is to get back to clinic and stabilize, then come down slow. If even possible. If you still have access to the internet in 1 year let me know how you are doing.
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I dont understand where this is coming from?

I am eating. Just not as much as normal.
I cant go back to the clinic as I travel for work and would start over with no takehomes.

I wake up feeling fine, other than acute wd from
Not using in 10 hours. But during the day my stomach is just gross. I can eat a bit. Loperamide helps.
Like seriously i dont feel much acute wd between doses except stomach issues

Just wondering how long the stomach part will last.
Id go to a clinic before i go crazy, shooting shit in my arms or what ever...

I thought this forum was for support not bashing people?
 
i think @TheInvisibleStoner made some pertinent points but agree that they could have been made in a more tactful and supportive way.

what is actually up with your stomach? i'm guessing if lope is helping then its at the back end. i am wondering if maybe your drop in opiate usage has uncovered an issue that it was previously masking. also if you were doing the methadone liquid i'm sure that can't be good for your stomach, alongside the general shite that opiates do to your system. i would speak to your doctor.

just i can't really see how it can be due to the wd if you're not experiencing any other symptoms.

good luck with it. i've been through some shitty CTs but never off such a large long standing habit. you've done well to get this far, persevere and it'll be worth it.
 
I bet the nausea is because oral methadone was hitting the receptors in your stomach more than the fent you are using now is, it will probably get better in a month or two is my guess, or you could keep taking lope or another oral opiate. I would just try and taper off with short acting opiates if possible though, but slowly. Might be tough to do with fent...
 
Beenhead said:
I dont understand where this is coming from?

I am eating. Just not as much as normal.
I cant go back to the clinic as I travel for work and would start over with no takehomes.

I wake up feeling fine, other than acute wd from
Not using in 10 hours. But during the day my stomach is just gross. I can eat a bit. Loperamide helps.
Like seriously i dont feel much acute wd between doses except stomach issues

Just wondering how long the stomach part will last.
Id go to a clinic before i go crazy, shooting shit in my arms or what ever...

I thought this forum was for support not bashing people?
Click to expand...

I'm not bashing you. I'm letting you know what you are trying is a huge mistake. That you are going to damage your body. And to go back to the clinic to taper.

I have jumped off when I was younger much smaller doses (40mg or under). Once you been on it for over 2 years its over. Taper is the only way. 15 years, a very very slow taper is the only way.

Nobody knows what your stomach pain is about. Completely abnormal. I would go to the doctor personally and get checked out. If your doctor is of no help, then you need a new doctor as that is kinda what doctors do.

You will need to be monitoring everything anyway if you are going to try this. Would start with a new doctor and a blood test. The levels of dehydration you will experience will be intense.

Coming off methadone by 3 weeks my stomach was completely fine and had the largest appetite ever. Except once and there was indeed something wrong. Ended up in the hospital.

Dunno, best of luck but I already know what is going to happen here as seen it too many times.

The only way off methadone for you is a slow taper down.
 
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I'm afraid I must agree. This is a plan that's exceedingly unlikely to succeed.

I know it sucks, but if I were you I'd definitely go back to the clinic.

Tell them you want to start tapering off your methadone, when you get down to a much lower dose. Then you can try and jump off.

It's your life so obviously the choice is ultimately yours, but 170mg of methadone is a big fucking dose. You can't just jump off it inside a month without having some major withdrawal.

I would go back to the clinic, seeing as you've been gone for weeks if they're anything like the methadone clinics I've been to they'll start you over on something like 30-40mg.

Since you've been in withdrawal a lot of the last few weeks, among other reasons, you may well find you can stop at a much lower dose than you were previously on. Like maybe 100 or under. Then you can ask them to help you taper down from that.

Good luck <3
 
That’s so long it’s nuts 🥜 and also I can’t talk still out here on boi / dog food 🥘/ trying to find score real dope and not fenty rn been slowing down on the fenty cz it’s just killing me when I get so sick off it the dope isn’t as bad at all forsure but need to no we’re I can buy needles never have befor and need to no how I get them little ones also
 
I jumped off 300mg methadone a day in 4 months.

Tapered to 138mg in 2.5 months, barely any withdrawal. The doctor switched me to suboxone. Before he switched me I started taking suboxone on my own. 0.25mg a day for two weeks. Then he switched me from 138mg methadone next day 2mg a day for 2 days. Then 4mg for 2 days, then 6, then 8, until I hit 24mg a day. By day 5 or 6 I went into massive precipitated withdrawal. Worse than being IVd narcan. Hallucinating, panic attacks, puking, and literally the worst body pain I've ever felt, I was screaming as loud as I could, I felt like every bone and muscle had been broken and torn. It was literally unbareable. I was shreaking for an hour im surprised the neighbors didn't call 911. I immediately dosed 6mg clonazepam and 4mil gbl, zero tolerance to both but I was fucking scared man. Ive been through hardcore detoxes but never felt like that. Klonopin doesn't show up on our clinic tests and had about 200mg saved for when id have to come off it.. Even with those drugs it still took nearly 1.5 hours to go to sleep. If I didn't have these meds I would have called 911. Ive never gone to ER for opioid withdrawal. Woke up completely fine. Had to take my night time suboxone dose, withdrawal again. This went on for 2 weeks, 2x a day everyday. It was brutal. Each time the withdrawal was less and less. After the first week of precipitated withdrawal I could function just felt shitty. I used klonopin, gbl, gabapentin, baclofen, phenibut, clonidine. Use two of them a day and rotating. Most intense detox ive gone through but not the most difficult with those meds. I could feel the methadone withdrawal but also feel the suboxone benefits so it was strange. If I didn't have all these meds, half from the doc other half didn't show up on tests, then I'd have gone off the deep end.


1 month or so on suboxone total including those weeks of precip withdrawal, once I was finally stable I quit 24mg cold turkey. Used these meds for the next two weeks. Stayed sober for two weeks after and it was hell man. Withdrawal. Lots of it.

Ended up taking kratom on one week off one week for a few months. Despite years on methadone the kratom got me really High, the WD from that too though was bad. Not methadone bad but it still sucked and lasted 2 weeks. 25g kratom withdrawal was similar to 120mg+ oxy WD, at least to ME. Except the depression and anxiety were like a mild benzo withdrawal. Constant panic attacks. Im not an anxious person at all normally.

I've been off methadone for six months. Off kratom for 35 days. Take 0.3mg clonidine spreadout at night to sleep, with valerian and ashwaghanda. No other meds.

I'm still not right. Withdrawal is over but PAWS is brutal from methadone. I have good days though. Some days I really struggle with body pains, restlessness, panic attacks, insomnia, bad brain fog etc. You just dont feel it yet because you're still taking fent and loperamide, albeit low doses.

My gut still isn't right man. It feels so messed up. If you aren't pooping immense amounts a day that means you still have a lot of opioids in you even if it doesn't feel like it. Once you kick rhe fent and loperamide you'll feel how you really are going to feel, not forever obviously. Lope is way stronger than people give it credit. Esp in high doses.

Loperamide is prolonging inevitable. Even in 2-8mg a day doses i found it just prolonged withdrawal.
 
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With everything you described I believe it may be possible to taper down on the fentanyl a bit more and switch over to suboxone. You will probably have to be sick for a good 48-72hrs before you can make the switch though.

I also agree that going back on methadone and properly tapering would be best but I also understand not being able to because of your job. If you are already stable on several bags of fent then you can continue your taper and switch but it will take a lot of determination. Be careful with the fentanyl though because it's playing with fire.

As for your stomach I have no idea other than whatever weird RC opiods they're selling as dope now a days started doing similar things to my stomach. Along with a host of other weird symptoms. You've also been putting your body through a lot. Switching opiods isn't always straight forward.

Good luck. Be careful and keep us updated.

Somni
 
TheInvisibleStoner said:
I'm not bashing you. I'm letting you know what you are trying is a huge mistake. That you are going to damage your body. And to go back to the clinic to taper.

I have jumped off when I was younger much smaller doses (40mg or under). Once you been on it for over 2 years its over. Taper is the only way. 15 years, a very very slow taper is the only way.

Nobody knows what your stomach pain is about. Completely abnormal. I would go to the doctor personally and get checked out. If your doctor is of no help, then you need a new doctor as that is kinda what doctors do.

You will need to be monitoring everything anyway if you are going to try this. Would start with a new doctor and a blood test. The levels of dehydration you will experience will be intense.

Coming off methadone by 3 weeks my stomach was completely fine and had the largest appetite ever. Except once and there was indeed something wrong. Ended up in the hospital.

Dunno, best of luck but I already know what is going to happen here as seen it too many times.

The only way off methadone for you is a slow taper down.
Click to expand...


Invisible you post many quality posts and strong advice, but hold such a ridged view. There is more then one way to skin a cat.

Acute opiate withdrawal will not permanently damage someone's brain or body. Why do you feel it will?

Nausea and stomach discomfort are common opiate withdrawal symptoms especially with opiate induced constipation or the eventual resolution of it. What blood test would they be looking for and why?

Tapering off methadone gradually is best done by reducing 3 to 5 mg every two weeks, but as we still jump at the end I'm not sure this just doesn't prolong the misery.

People can jump much sooner if circumstances require it or if they try that approach and they can make it. I did.

With methadone use or withdrawal I would have your vitamin D and testosterone levels checked (male)
 
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This guy has been on methadone for 15 years!!! This is a medical issue. The levels of dehydration will be insane. Yes, hardcore methadone withdrawal will damage you. We aren't talking about a year or two of on off dope. Or even a year or two of methadone. Those are both childs play and have come off dope and short stints of methadone many times. And have bounced back quickly.

Once you are dosing for years and years, things get much, much different.

Insomnia, poor eating, dehydration for an extended period of time will cause irreversible damage.Taking someone that has been dosing 100mg for 10 years. They will come out damaged when you open the door 1 year later. Assuming they live, the stress their body went through will be intense. And your mental health will not be good.

Educate yourself -

Yes, people can die from opiate withdrawal | NDARC - National Drug and Alcohol Research Centre

It is generally thought that opiate withdrawal is unpleasant but not life-threatening, but death can, and does, occur. The complications of withdrawal are often underestimated and monitored inadequately. The opioid withdrawal syndrome is often characterised as a flu-like illness, subjectively...
ndarc.med.unsw.edu.au ndarc.med.unsw.edu.au

Then search around for various death in jails / prisons. I can show you lots. The county jail here now gives it to you since people were dropping dead left and right from high dose withdrawal. People think methadone is a joke and it falls into the category of opiate withdrawal. Its a beyond brutal long withdrawal when done from high doses. I also know several people that turned mentally ill from big withdrawals from 3-5 years of sub 100mg dosing and going to prison and getting cut off cold.

What he is attempting is silly and I would never root someone on to kill themselves. Go back to the clinic and taper like a normal person.

He isn't in his 20's either.

But like I said. If he does this, he will be the 1st person in history to kick 15 years of methadone cold. Or with dope / kratom / whatever he wants to use.

However he is just gonna rock himself into hell. 170mg is like a full cup full lol. Trust me, you don't want to kick that. Once you are stable for a few months under 20mg or so then go for it. Hell, the dude may have OD already. He is out there using fent dope lets not forget.....

Day 7 no fent was hell. Hallucinations, manic, huge double vision, just frightening.
Click to expand...

That was ~24 hours with no opiates.

Going back on subs for a bit was my 1st recommendation assuming they worked for him. Even so. Best way off is 10% of your dose max per month. However after dosing that like for a decade and a half this is going to be a different situation, will need to go down slower. Like fast taper to 80mg, then 1mg a week or so. Very slow to let the brain and body adjust.

I have come off methadone several times. Barely had stomach issues. Perhaps cramps from overeating is all since your appetite is huge.

Blood tests will look for liver issues / vitamin deficiencies. The dude has been dosing for 15 years (methadone is not good for the heart, liver, or blood sugar...all of which a blood test will check for), I am certain his health is not too good and needs a beyond full checkup. Especially off the methadone now even moreso needs to get checked out.
 
I see with the dehydration death. Given the inhumane way addicts are forced to detox and the rare occurrence of this its got to be really rare.

related methadone and other opioids and the liver.


It has oral, parenteral (intravenous, intramuscular), suppositories, inhalation and subcutaneous medicinal forms. It is metabolized by enzymes cyp3A4 and 1A2 in the liver; therefore, its clearance is reduced in severe hepatic insufficiency. Although methadone is a drug with a high affinity for binding to protein, it does not produce toxic metabolites (32, 37, 38). Thus, it is better tolerated in patients with liver failure. If standard and regular doses of methadone are utilized, information shows no change in patients with mild to moderate hepatic insufficiency (16, 33). However, in patients with severe hepatic failure, the half-life of the drug increases, and it should be taken with caution (13, 38). In patients with hypoalbuminemia, the lowest dose should be given (29). Methadone is contraindicated in severe liver disease (39).

sites.kowsarpub.com

Opioid Drugs in Patients With Liver Disease: A Systematic Review

The liver, one of the most important organs of the body, is known to be responsible for several functions. The functional contribution of the liver to the m...
sites.kowsarpub.com sites.kowsarpub.com

I don't think methadone causes much if any liver damage.

Also after prolonged use do you think that time makes that much difference in the effects of withdrawal?

Double vision is not a normal withdrawal symptom and may need to be checked out.
 
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I think methadone withdrawal is different for everyone. I know people who've come off 100mg within a month with no withdrawal. Smoke herb and go to work etc no problem.

I know people that still aren't right after a year.

I know people who on 100mg+ doses can't taper more than 1mg a week without being sick. I tapered up to 20mg a week with zero withdrawal. No meds used during this time.

I came off 300mg within 4 months, and I can say without the meds I had id probably have been in trouble but nowhere near death.

Weeks after stopping i was eating up 5k calories a day and drinking a gallon of water a day. Idk how people can't eat during withdrawal. Im famished always. If puking is an issue which I was for me get some anti nausea.

We at the very least for 6mg imodium and .3mg clonidine a day in jail. Off any habit. If it was methadone im sure we'd get libirum or ativan/baclofen.
 
Skippwiggins said:
I know people who on 100mg+ doses can't taper more than 1mg a week without being sick. I tapered up to 20mg a week with zero withdrawal. No meds used during this time.
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What? That's gotta be a psychological problem.

At 100mg you should be able to drop at least 5-10mg without noticing anything. And probably a fair bit more.

At higher doses you should be able to reduce more faster, until you become used to lower doses. Since 10mg of 100mg is a 10% drop. So if you were on 10mg it would be similar to dropping 1mg.

My point is I find it hard to believe anyone can't reduce their 100mg methadone dose by at least 5-10mg, at least at first.

It'll get hard though eventually. Even at a 1mg a week drop, you'll eventually get sick. It'll take probably a year, but it'll happen.

So yea I'm not sure exactly what you're suggesting.

What annoys me is doctors and clinics who insist on only reducing in arbitrary increments of 5mg or 1mg or 10mg or whatever. Methadone for opioid substitution is nearly always a liquid, you can easily reduce by pretty much any quantity. They're just too lazy to fucking measure it out. They wanna only reduce by the increments the methadone pump supports. So fucking lazy.
 
I'm not suggesting anything. It was just an overall reply to different topics ive heard in this thread.

I gave my experience of coming off 300mg a day in 4 months further up.

I suggest to OP going back to methadone or suboxone and tapering. Suicide withdrawaling is dangerous for addicts. Sure I have not used any illicit opiates or opioids in 6 months except kratom(legal) on and off but to me thats still using.. I doubt most addicts will make it 6-12 months without going back to using opiates or the clinic without a super strong recovery and even then expect bad days sometimes.

My clinic let's you chose your taper dose and speed. Whatever you want. I did 6mg every other day so I figure about 20mg a week.
 
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