100% Abstinence impossible for some?

[Burnt Offerings]

Alcohol has never really been a big deal for me personally. I VERY rarely have more than one drink, and usually if I'm having a drink it's to "fit in" with someone I'm visiting at a bar or their home. Booze is perhaps my least favorite drug, well, the least favorite that I'll still consume from time to time at least.

NA basically says that alcohol is just another drug (which is true as far as a definition...ethanol = a drug) and that drinking will lead to relapse. That seems to be the party line of NA groups I've encountered, anyway. What I think that misses though is that some people who are addicted to drugs are addicted to feeling a certain way, and...alcohol to me is not really a euphoric drug, more of a mild sedative at low doses and a deliriant at high doses, not really my thing.

I'm glad I'm not an alcoholic, though, simply because alcohol is basically impossible to avoid in this society, it is everywhere & in public, unlike other drugs.

 

[Moreaux]

Alcohol has never really been a big deal for me personally. I VERY rarely have more than one drink, and usually if I'm having a drink it's to "fit in" with someone I'm visiting at a bar or their home. Booze is perhaps my least favorite drug, well, the least favorite that I'll still consume from time to time at least.

NA basically says that alcohol is just another drug (which is true as far as a definition...ethanol = a drug) and that drinking will lead to relapse. That seems to be the party line of NA groups I've encountered, anyway. What I think that misses though is that some people who are addicted to drugs are addicted to feeling a certain way, and...alcohol to me is not really a euphoric drug, more of a mild sedative at low doses and a deliriant at high doses, not really my thing.

I'm glad I'm not an alcoholic, though, simply because alcohol is basically impossible to avoid in this society, it is everywhere & in public, unlike other drugs.

Very good points - I'll probably modify my statements and just reference DOC in lieu of alcohol. Alcohol was one of my DOCs, which is why I used it in the post. I tend to agree with you, there are some substances I can use responsibly and not have the drive to continue on. Marijuana is something I enjoy, but it's not a debilitating compulsion like alcohol is. Coke and kratom are two other substances. I wonder though if given my nature if I pushed it hard enough if they could become as insidious as alcohol - for me anyway. Knowing what I do about my addiction to alcohol, I am very cautious with any mind altering substance, though I have yet to encounter anything that gives me pleasure the way alcohol does.

 

[Erikmen]

I believe this is actually the subject of this discussion. I guess I understand how you think about this.
It seems to me everyone has its own timing. I suppose once you've handled your DOC, it's up to your own judgment how you live your life without putting in danger the things you've achieved.
For me it was all about learning what I could and couldn't have done. But like I said it's all about time and how this will or will not affect you in the long term.

 

[belfort]

I think of it as some people don't need to be all or nothing, even if they got themselves in trouble before. A reasonable amount of getting fucked up has been one of life's pleasures since before humans were even a thing. If an ex-junkie wants a beer and doesn't turn into an alkie, then that's quite alright, if another ex-junkie thinks diet coke is too strong for them these days, that's quite alright too.

I agree but according to most addiction experts, if a heroin addict starts having a few beers on Friday night that it's only a matter of time before they relapse on heroin..some othe experts are now starting to come out to disagree with this..it is an individual thing, some can handle it, some can't..

I know I tried going 100% clean, even without caffeine and made it 16 months then started drinking occasionally..this led to that and now kratom is what I use..how long will this last, who knows?all I know is even when I had been clean for a year, I just id not feel right..my motivation and pleasure systems were all fucked up..yet I know others who had habits just as bad as mine yet are 100% clean and doing great, they rarely even go to meetings and aren't on maintenance of any sort..they don't even exercise routinely so im like wtf

 

[belfort]

I know that 100 percent abstinence is not for me personally. I smoke pot and have a kolonopin prescription and I am on the methadone clinic. Its all about making life manageable and being happy. I think some people get so caught up in the word sober that they forget that life is about finding happiness.

I agree but I also think many of us think a foggy mind or surfing in an opiate induced bubble equals happiness..I really don't know, many of us do seem happier when on maintenance drugs than we would be sober so, whatever works...

 

[belfort]

Its def not for everyone. For me I hate being an addict :/ Although I am waiting for that day when I'm an old man and don't give a shit anymore lol. Methadone was never an option for me. I was on it for about 4 years and I hated it. I just see life as better now without opiates. Its not perfect, its life, but at least I am not suffering all the freaking time like before! I was living in constant fear.

Now I smoke cigs, smoke weed, watch porn, binge eat, play video games, and sleep in.

I think my life would be better without those things :/ I wouldn't care about the porn, but its desensitizing me and my hormones are already fucked from years of opiate abuse.

So for me abstinence is the only way I see going forward. There is no such thing as just a little bit for me. Last time I did percs, 3 days later I was shooting up. I'm right back where I was, instantly.

Opiates really fucked up my sexual hormone makeup and no doubt porn desensitized the fuck out of you..a normal girl has no chance in hell in getting me off and it sucks

 

[belfort]

Well, I don't know if I qualify as 100% abstinent since I have a script for Ativan, but I have no choice to be abstinent from my primary DOC which was alcohol. A wrecked marriage, relationship and finances and lost jobs weren't enough to make me stop. It was only until I got a death sentence that I did. I was told by my primary care doctor that I probably had about five years left before my liver would completely give out if I continued to drink at the rate I was. As it is, I am in near permanent discomfort in the area of my liver.

If you take benzos, whether scripted or not, drink alcohol or smoke marijuana, you are not sober according to the vast majority..only massive amounts of caffeine and nicotine are allowed lol..so for chroni anxiety sufferers, it's that much harder to be sober

 

[belfort]

Anhedonia and lack of motivation is normal and should subside over time.

Hate to be the bearer of bad news but these 2 problems were still very noticeable even after a long time clean..they are the main reasons I started taking substances again

 

[Erikmen]

If you take benzos, whether scripted or not, drink alcohol or smoke marijuana, you are not sober according to the vast majority..only massive amounts of caffeine and nicotine are allowed lol..so for chroni anxiety sufferers, it's that much harder to be sober

It is indeed. Specially when if you used benzodiazepines for a long time. It changes the way we respond to anxiety and that takes time to recover.

 

[belfort]

^ Assuming that we all always need to be on something.

Doctors prescribed me Valium when I was 18! It was better than what I was doing.

That's the question, do some people NEeD benzos to control their anxiety?some people I know have tried many other methods to control their anxiety but they were still anxious people..I think anxiety is hard wired into people just as calmness is..I don't consider benzos to be recreational at all, I take them for an ailment..it's the same thing when I have a headache, I take aspirin.

 

[Erikmen]

That comment I made was in within a context where the benzo took me off something that was killing me.
It was a part of a process of getting me off drugs and dealing with withdrawals still when I was very young.
With time they tend to gradually decrease the doses as you get better.

For long term treatment, some doctors prefer to prescribe other sort of meds, other than benzos in order to deal with anxiety.

They do that while you try on you own do other things like exercises, meditation, hobbies, entertainment, etc, etc. And psychiatrist's medication if that does not work.

I believe that the problem with benzos is that you can't take them for life. It leads to an increasing tolerance and at some point it does not work anymore unless you use stronger and larger quantites which is difficult to maintain in the long term.

 

[phactor]

Nothing wrong with harm reduction, it works. Its main goal should eventually be towards abstinence however. Most people can achieve complete abstinence, its just really hard. Very very very few people actually need to stay on maintenance for life. Do they exist? Sure. Are there many, not at all.

Also according to the medical model "maintenance" is taking doctor monitored doses in some type of controlled fashion.

Anyways, that is all I will say about that. I talk about this shit at work and school enough lol.

 

[Erikmen]

I try not to think about long term results. I have done maintenance for 8 years.
Now it's all new and challenging, I don't want to think that's not possible.
As there is no cure for addiction I suppose it all comes to living one day at time and doing the best we can.