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1-(3,4-methylenedioxy-phenyl)-2-pyrrolidin-1-yl-pentan-1-one

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>>Heckyll

If you bring us stuff like amfonelic acid we will be eternally grateful, I'll put anything into my body as a test subject so long as you have first. ;) I think the problem with MDPV is the almost two-fold potency for NE against DA, yielding the fight or flight and anxiety effects.
 
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Nuke: Not to talk about about the mania, but maybe that's just my autistic side coming through more under MDPV. ;) All in all, not very good for a "high" unless you want a short rush - then you can plug it. And for concentration - very good to some extent, but still the problems mentioned in the thread plus uncertain effect on health if one uses it more than just very occasionally.
 
DEAMB GS or foxolinic acid? Structurally completely different, yet pharmacologically similar and maybe superior. Most importantly, much safer!

Found oxolinic acid (no f), it was dirt cheap and used as an antimicrobial. But apparently a dopamine uptake inhibitor too (and it has a methylenedioxy-ring ;) ).

"In humans, theurapeutic dose levels of oxolinic acid have been reported to induce psychopharmacological effects such as nervous excitation, stereotyped behaviour and insomnia."

It's an DNA-gyrase inhibitor and an inhibitor of CyP-450-1A2.

Time for bed yet? I'm satrting to feel pretty mushed. Aaaahhh, all those wonderful antibacterials! Hold on, I'm just gonna go pop some ciprofloxacin.
 
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amfonelic acid! Would still like it confirmed that BTCP is inactive in humans...
 
Refluxer said:
Found oxolinic acid (no f), it was dirt cheap and used as an antimicrobial. But apparently a dopamine uptake inhibitor too (and it has a methylenedioxy-ring ;) ).

"In humans, theurapeutic dose levels of oxolinic acid have been reported to induce psychopharmacological effects such as nervous excitation, stereotyped behaviour and insomnia."

It's an DNA-gyrase inhibitor and an inhibitor of CyP-450-1A2.

Time for bed yet? I'm satrting to feel pretty mushed. Aaaahhh, all those wonderful antibacterials! Hold on, I'm just gonna go pop some ciprofloxacin.

I would worry about side effects such as diarrhea etc at the doses required to inhibit dopamine reuptake.
 
nuke said:
I would worry about side effects such as diarrhea etc at the doses required to inhibit dopamine reuptake.

Don't worry, I won't be ordering drums of it any time soon. ($2.50/kg when ordering lots, bargain, eh? ;) ) Actually, I don't think I'll be ordering it at all. I just found it a bit interesting.

Anyway, this is going too OT. Back to business.
 
Haha, some time ago I've thought about asking them if they wanted to buy consulting services so they could get suggestions on new chemicals to add to their directory, as they seemed unable to come up with new products.

Already dealt with - it all depends on what they are wanting to 'risk (they were going to go with 2-phenyl-2-ethylaminocyclohexanone after getting SAR studies & other details, but sold the business before that could happen). BTW - for everyone: try (no wait, do) to not give specific names or I'll have to become all authoritarian and start slapping wrists
 
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Found oxolinic acid (no f), it was dirt cheap and used as an antimicrobial. But apparently a dopamine uptake inhibitor too (and it has a methylenedioxy-ring ).


Way to end up with the new MRSA organism. A drug of abuse that's also an antibiotic? I can see some very specific, but beforehand uncommon infections cropping up if it becomes popular through selection of drug resistant organisms. With the list of side effects & the fact that it's an antibiotic, not to even start on enzyme inhibition, I don't think I'd even consider anything beyond a one-off dose and I really like stimulants.
 
Just to make it clear: I did not suggest using oxolinic acid as a psychotropic drug, and I would strongly discourage anyone who may consider it.
 
fastandbulbous said:
Already dealt with - it all depends on what they are wanting to 'risk (they were going to go with 2-phenyl-2-ethylaminocyclohexanone after getting SAR studies & other details, but sold the business before that could happen).

Are you sure it's a good idea and responsible to throw a rather potent dissociative on the market?

I think it's a good question anyhow what should be sold on the RC market. How far should we go? The first guy sells psychedelics and a lousy stimulant, the next one the adds dissociatives, and the next step is to sell opioids as RC. And then people start ending up in the (mental) hospital or the morgue.

We don't only need new drugs, we also need safe new drugs. These are things to consider when you're working as consultant to the RC industry.
 
Well people wanting a dissociative experience at the minute (without braking the law) only have the coice of DXM, which is far from being a safe compound. The data concerning the ketamine analogues indicate they have similar toxicitiesm which give a pretty good theraputic ratio

I think it's a good question anyhow what should be sold on the RC market. How far should we go? The first guy sells psychedelics and a lousy stimulant, the next one the adds dissociatives, and the next step is to sell opioids as RC. And then people start ending up in the (mental) hospital or the morgue.

Let's not forget your role in the stimulant that's currently available (& possibly more from your previous posts)... I researched the toxicity data before suggesting it to anyone. As for what'a available, I believe that dissociatives have an important role for anybody investiugating altered states & what can be learned from them. Should I have been so inclined I could have offered a shitload of SAR data on opiates, but I believe they have no role in the position currently filled by the available RC's and so would not be happy to do so (the same applies to CNS depressants). While I don't have a problem in helping anyone wanting to increase the choice of 'conciousness expanding' drugs available (5HT psychedelics, dissociatives & entactogens - possibly even cannabinoids), you'll not find me offering all the SAR data I have on opiates to anybody who asks as other than for use in treating pain I feel that their use is eventually detrimental to the person consuming them (all the hideous aspects of dependance that I've experienced first hand).


We don't only need new drugs, we also need safe new drugs. These are things to consider when you're working as consultant to the RC industry.

Well along with the SAR data I included toxicty from animal studies as I believe that anything truely dangerous does not need to be let out of the bottle - did you do similar for MDPV? If this seems a bit hostile it's only because your above post seemed to be implying that I was acting irresponsibly by suggesting that ketamine analogue as a possible new compound to be made available...
 
I'm officially broken-hearted now!

The vile MDPV got into the market but a Ketamine analogue did not???

Shame.

Btw... research opioids did make it to the market. 4-AcO-miteragynine?
 
fastandbulbous said:
Well along with the SAR data I included toxicty from animal studies as I believe that anything truely dangerous does not need to be let out of the bottle - did you do similar for MDPV?

Yes, in fact, I did. I posted links to patents showing that MDPV has a very high therapeutic index. Just use the search engine, I'm too lazy to dig out these old posts.

And to tell you the truth, I seriously regret that I let this genie out of the bottle. We learn from our mistakes....

But I agree that dissociatives can provide very valuable experiences and insights, and it would be desirable to have a safe dissociative with begign pharmacology available. But a ketamine-like compound which many people tend to use compulsively, but insufflation or injection, might not be the ideal product. I think a dissociative designed for oral use, and longer lasting than the ketamines, would be preferrable. You take your pill, you make yourself comfortable and enjoy the ride.

CNS depressants are well covered by the pharmaceutical industry, but what is offered there is not what's required. People take benzos (and become addicted), and still don't get the effect they seek: something that relieves you from your daily stress, something to get comfortable and relaxed, something to unwind. And since the benzos doesn't offer this effect sufficiently, people turn to opioids, which give all that's wanted, but of course at a very high price.

Jamshyd: I wouldn't consider mitragynine and it's derivatives true µ-opioids. In vivo they are more likely delta opioids. I've tried them all, and found no resemblance to true µ-opioids.
 
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Dr.Heckyll said:
And to tell you the truth, I seriously regret that I let this genie out of the bottle. We learn from our mistakes....

Please don't. A little heat can be good sometimes. Already the discussion has started moving in an interesting direction - i.e. what kind of new compounds will we see, what's wanted and what risks do we need to consider.


CNS depressants are well covered by the pharmaceutical industry, but what is offered there is not what's required. People take benzos (and become addicted), and still don't get the effect they seek: something that relieves you from your daily stress, something to get comfortable and relaxed, something to unwind. And since the benzos doesn't offer this effect sufficiently, people turn to opioids, which give all that's wanted, but of course at a very high price.

Agreed, there is a serious lack of this kind of drug. Many people don't like alcohol, many don't appreciate cannabis so what's left and fairly easily available? GBL? GBL is a great drug in many ways, but there's still room (a lot of it) for something with a little twist and different feel. Still, it has to be safe and not turn people into zombies. Probably a class of compounds pretty much forgotten or pretty much novel.
 
Imo the ketamine analog idea is quite good. It's not actually completely new and has been made previously. However, it has never caught on since ketamine is diverted from legitmate pharmaceutical laboratories and is never encountered in clandestine settings. C6H6 paid alot of attention to therapeutic index of safety, as I remember suggesting the plain phenyl analog but C6H6 gave me his reasons for the choice of methylenedioxy. I still like the idea of the phenyl analog but this cheap compound would be better prepared in enantiopure form as only one if the pyrovalerone isomers is active.
 
Yeah, according to the paper that everyone who's interested has read, the most potent of the series is the 3,4-dichloro analouge, but that doesn't always equal higher theraputic ratio.

As for the ketamine compound, at present there isn't a longer acting oral dissociative that is safe or isn't linked in some way with neurotoxicity (sorry but DXM isn't safe IMO and PCP is neurotoxic with repeated dosing) so it's best to go with the best of the bunch. Had it been done in a manner of 'to get the best hit', regardless of all other factors, then the target compound would have been 2-(3-methoxyphenyl)-2-aminoethylcyclohexanone or the eqivalent 3-hydroxy compound as they also have a fair degree of mu agonism (the 3-hydroxy compound being of the same order of magnitude as morphine etc), but that would inevitably reduce the theraputic ratio and make it more likely that someone ended up coming a cropper; that's the last thing I want to have a hand in being responsible for
 
Actually, a friend with a perchant for synthetic organic chemistry produced a whole series of phenylalkanones with assorted amine groups on the 2 position & said that 1-phenyl-2-(methylamino)butanone was a pretty good replacement for amphetamine as a 4 carbon side chain wasn't exclusively dopaminergic in it's actions. The most potent reuptake inhibitors, in terms of side chain, are the phenylhexanones (wonder what the hexanone analogue of MDPV is like?)
 
Dr.Heckyll,

You are preaching to the choir(bois).
You are not alone.
Simpler is better.

Silly BLers, RC's are for entactogens stimulants and or hallucinogens!


!!!

1-dimethylamino-1-(3-chlorophenyl)cyclohexane
N-hydroxy-methamphetamine
3,4-dichloromethamphetamine
and so forth

hussness,

The methylenedioxybenzene ring is the first and most delicate part of MDPV to be metabolized by the human body.

See phase_dancer's MDMA metabolism diagram charts in the Gallery.
 
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