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⫸Trans and LGBTQIA+ Discussion⫷

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I will reply to the other posters above later, don't have much time right now. @alasdairm

@Foreigner, you seem to be still trying to exclude intersex people from conversation with these new statements. But I have not seen you replying to my questions just few pages backwards. How do you conceive with that? (is that correct verb? I ain't native speaker)

The intersex numbers (1% or higher) have been significantly inflated by progressives, by including other types of genetic syndromes. The true intersex number is ~0.018%.

The rare number of intersex people is not evidence of "gender fluidity" in humanity. 99% of humanity is on the sex binary, regardless of what their psychological condition is. They are physically one sex or the other.

I don't want to make this a component of argumentation, but rather a suggestion and expression of my wishes; I feel like sometimes minorities and discriminated human groups have internalized the rhetorics people hostile towards them have used in order to be able to turn those same rhetorics they understand, against the oppressors, to gain space to exist. And sometimes it leads people to kinda repeating the trauma.

That may be the case for some, but it's not in my case.

So, I just wish you people to perceive things again from that perspective for a while. I claim that many of us are that are otherized or otherwise questioned legitimate of existence as ourselves are not that far away with other people that share same experience but with other title. I know this sounds confusing, this is very difficult concept to explain. Maybe I will do better job tomorrow.

I have been a proponent of trans rights my entire life and I have multiple friends in the trans community. I, and they, think the recent progressive movement is garbage. Trans people are not a monolith and neither are gay people. The attempts to collectivize us are purely political when in reality the community is fragmented in many different social and political views.

I really think the LGB needs to separate from the TQ+ post haste. LGB is about sexual orientation. TQ+ is about identity movements that have very little scientific basis. Non-binary is bullshit, it's not real or definable. These people present as one sex or the other but use fashion choices to be gender non conforming. They can take off the cosplay at any time and they will look just like anybody else. They are not a real minority and they don't deserve special status. They are literally making things up now, and coopting the pride movement to try and make themselves correct. I want nothing to do with it. Non-binary isn't an identity. So you think you don't fully belong to either gender -- big fucking deal. Back in the day it was called androgyny.

Conservatives were largely beginning to accept the LGB after decades of civil rights movements. Now the TQ+ community started going after children, and conservatives are (correctly) fighting back. Gender ideology should not be taught to children. There is also no denying that there is pedophilia embedded in this movement -- all of the academics who created the founding principles of queer theory (i.e. John Money) are extremely controversial as they support consent in children. "Children can consent" is dangerous and should be stopped. If children can consent to having their breasts cut off or to take life-altering hormones, then the next step will be sexual consent.

As a result of the backlash, ultra conservatives are coming out of the woodwork to persecute the LGB. We were finally starting the cut through the crap about gays being pedophiles. Now it's all being brought up again because the TQ+ coopted the LGB in order to bring children into the conversation, because there are literal pedophiles and their supporters in this movement.

The courts will settle this. There are hundreds of lawsuits already in progress by children who have been harmed. Clinics are starting to close down. In the UK, the largest "gender affirming care" clinic got closed in 2023 because of lack of scientific rigor.

The TQ+ has nothing to do with the precedents that the LGB fought for. Gender ideology is a top-down philosophy being pushed by post-modernists (aka Marxists) who have taken over the education system and are using might-makes-right to justify their atrocities.

Moderate conservatives were generally on our side because the LGB movement was always about consenting adults. But once the TQ+ started to try and bring children into it, the moderates became alienated and now we have a backlash. This idea that the "LGBT" is under attack is WRONG. LGB was never under attack. We gained acceptance. We are only under attack now because progressives are targeting children. That's literally it.

And all of the progressives clinging to their various victimhood identities -- half of the identities are not even real. They're just making shit up because post-secondary has taught them that they don't have the right to speak less they are one of the oppressed. So everyone is claiming oppression, especially cishet white people. Everyone in their 20s is "queer" or "non-binary" now. It's BS and these labels have no meaning. It's literally whatever you want them to be.
 
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right. but you're smart and you know that a sample of one - and "i don't feel threatened therefore nor should you" - is of limited value.

Of course... but individuals like me speaking out against the attempts at collectivizing narratives shows that "gay" is not a monolith and we are just as diverse as heterosexual people.

i'm straight so my experience here is limited. can you give an example of how all your rights are beign eroded?

Freedom of expression is under attack because right-wing areas are now banning LGBT events wholesale, instead of banning the people who are the actual problem. It is now becoming more dangerous to be gay again because child groomers have collectivized LGBT to make it seem like "the gay community" is on board with this. Really all they are doing is creating an echo chamber and alienating all their allies. I get banned on a regular basis from various places online simply for stating these views. Fortunately, in person they can't shut me up and I'm very vocal. But on the internet it's nothing but echo chambers now.

you personally? or you as in all gay people? again, i can't experience this so can you give an example or two?

Me personally. The gender ideology movement has introduced a lot of homophobia within the gay community. We have trans men telling gay men that if they wont have sex with their "male vagina" that they are transphobic. We have cishet people identifying as "queer" entering our gay safe spaces and dictating to us what we should and shouldn't accept. We have progressives telling gay men that we are actually privileged and should shut up. I see it all the time in person. These people are tyrants. They also tell straight men that they are transphobic if they won't have sex with a trans woman because she has a penis. These people are nuts.

There is an additional problem facing children. Young femme boys (we sometimes call them sissy boys) or butch girls (often called tomboys) are being singled out by virtue signaling progressives as perhaps actually being trans. If a boy likes girl things then he should probably be a girl, right? So a lot of parents are pushing this gender ideology on children who are just normal, and will likely grow up to be gay. It is gay erasure. It's because a lot of cishet parents would rather their son be a girl than their son be a gay boy. But we can't talk about that because "gay people are privileged" according to trans activists. And corrupt queer theory researchers like John Money have erroneous pushed the false notion that if you completely put away all things "male" and treat a little boy as a girl, he will grow up and think he is a girl like there's no difference. We know that's false but academia is still pushing this narrative. So a lot of little gay boys and girls are being erased by a movement that is trying to trans them.

The irony is that singling out a boy and telling him that maybe he is actually a girl simply because he likes feminine things is INCREDIBLY heterosexist. And that's the other problem -- the trans movement is reviving sexism. We went from second wave feminism which said a boy can like girl things and a girl can like boy things and it's perfectly fine, to full circle... now if you like girl things you MUST be a girl.

The TRA movement is part and parcel with gay erasure and homophobia. I personally think that any "gay man" who will fuck a vagina is actually on the bisexual spectrum, but it's "transphobic" to say so because you're not allowed to suggest that there's anything female about "trans men." Every man I know who is 100% gay would never dream of fucking female anatomy. In public we will smile and nod to trans men but we will never fuck one, and if they ask why we won't tell them the real reason because we don't want to face bigotry.

I am personally offended when TRAs and trans people call my sexual orientation a "genital preference" that I am simply choosing to stick to because I'm a transphobic bigot. These people are sick in the head. I recently saw a trans male stripper in a gay bar here, complete with a female vagina. A lot of people walked out and I don't blame them. A lot of gay men have trauma from women trying to convert them -- I too have experienced this. Trans men flashing their vag in a gay club and calling us transphobic if we don't accept them is too close to home and reminds us of our homophobic traumas.

Trans men are not men. They are trans men. Trans women are not women. They are trans women. They should be respected but they are NOT interchangeable.

thanks.

alasdair

No problem!
 
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The rare number of intersex people is not evidence of "gender fluidity" in humanity. 99% of humanity is on the sex binary, regardless of what their psychological condition is. They are physically one sex or the other.
So, if phenomenon is rare enough, phenomenon does not happen? That's like saying aurora borealis do not happen because 99 % of nights you can't see them. Do you have any cognitive dissonance about this statement?

Also, what you told about classifying yourself as "sane moderate" and the others "nutcases" implies that you are afraid of these movements exactly for the reasons I expressed. It is nothing conclusive tho, I admit that.
 
So a lot of parents are pushing this gender ideology on children who are just normal, and will likely grow up to be gay. It is gay erasure. It's because a lot of cishet parents would rather their son be a girl than their son be a gay boy
This is a load of crap that you have absolutely no data to support. How do you know what parents are thinking?

Gay men like having a cock and balls. Trans women that prep for full transition DON'T.

I'm a hetero cis-male, there is absolutely NOTHING THAT WOULD EVER MAKE ME WANT TO CUT OFF MY COCK.

EVEN AT 9, 10, 11 years old, nobody could have convinced me to get rid of my precious.

If you ASK gay men if they want their cock chopped off and tits they will tell you no.

If you actually talked to a tween trans woman, you would feel just how uncomfortable they are in a male body, how they can't stand their cock so they tuck it up.

How they want breasts and to wear panties and stockings and heels and dresses like every other girl and woman.

BASICALLY YOU'RE FOS

The rare number of intersex people is not evidence of "gender fluidity" in humanity. 99% of humanity is on the sex binary, regardless of what their psychological condition is. They are physically one sex or the other.

No, but hetero sissy cross dressers and hetero butch domineering women are evidence of gender fluidity.

Sissy twink gay men, and masc butch lesbians are evidence of gender fluidity.

Otherwise ALL GAY COUPLES would be 2 masculine men, and ALL LESBIAN COUPLES would be 2 femme women, and ALL HETERO COUPLES would contain only people in traditional gender roles.

AND THEY AREN'T.
 
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No, but hetero sissy cross dressers and hetero butch domineering women are evidence of gender fluidity.

Sissy twink gay men, and masc butch lesbians are evidence of gender fluidity.

Otherwise ALL GAY COUPLES would be 2 masculine men, and ALL LESBIAN COUPLES would be 2 femme women, and ALL HETERO COUPLES would contain only people in traditional gender roles.

AND THEY AREN'T.

Gay people can be feminine or masculine just like straight people. These things used to be considered generic personality traits not an indication of your gender. Feminine gay men were still men, even if they liked being submissive or wearing makeup or whatever the fuck. Now young people are being conditioned to see these feminine/masculine characteristics as determinative of their intrinsic gender. There are less and less references to gender dysphoria it seems like. I don't think it's much more than a cursory box to check these days. Gender expression seems to be synonymous with gender now.
 
Gay people can be feminine or masculine just like straight people. These things used to be considered generic personality traits not an indication of your gender. Feminine gay men were still men, even if they liked being submissive or wearing makeup or whatever the fuck. Now young people are being conditioned to see these feminine/masculine characteristics as determinative of their intrinsic gender. There are less and less references to gender dysphoria it seems like. I don't think it's much more than a cursory box to check these days. Gender expression seems to be synonymous with gender now.
I guess you didn't actually read for content or context.

First let's clear up the numbers.

2017-2022 122,000 children between 6-17 were diagnosed with gender dysphoria.

There are 50 MILLION children between 6-17 in the US. The percentage diagnosed with gender dysphoria is 0.24%

That's right ONE QUARTER OF ONE PERCENT.

TWO OUT OF A THOUSAND.

THERE IS NO EPIDEMIC.

As far as children who identify as CIS homosexual/bisexual, all the surveys and estimates peg the number at between 7-9%, so let's go with 8%

32 TIMES the incidence of gender dysphoria.

So no, it's not an issue of masculinity or femininity. It's an issue of gender for .24% of children, because children will clearly and loudly tell you they are gay, but not trans, and not non-binary.
 
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So, if phenomenon is rare enough, phenomenon does not happen? That's like saying aurora borealis do not happen because 99 % of nights you can't see them. Do you have any cognitive dissonance about this statement?

"Cognitive dissonance." Don't use words you don't understand. I am not suffering from a mental problem, we simply don't agree.

It is rare enough that we don't need to transform society's framework of the sex-gender binary by forcing ridiculous narratives about gender. i.e. making normal people state what their gender pronouns are. I won't cater to the idea that we can't tell what somebody's gender is simply by looking at them because of an incredibly statistically small number of people.

Intersex is a medical phenomenon. It doesn't need to be a social phenomenon. If someone has special considerations then they can let me know, otherwise I'm not playing these games.

Also, what you told about classifying yourself as "sane moderate" and the others "nutcases" implies that you are afraid of these movements exactly for the reasons I expressed. It is nothing conclusive tho, I admit that.

People who demonstrate the various behaviours I've mentioned are crazy. They are not living in reality. They are pushing ideological delusions that are not real. Furthermore, genuine trans people suffer from gender dysphoria. They have a bonafide mental disorder. Those who don't have this diagnosis but are making up different identity labels for themselves, they either have an undiagnosed mental disorder or they are cosplaying according to the dictates of pop culture.

I'm not "afraid." I am simply speaking the truth and I refuse to play the games that progressives are playing. Besides very rare intersex people, you are either male or female. And the overwhelming majority of society identifies as the sex of their birth.

The beautiful thing about our society is you can be whoever you want and believe whatever you want. But you can't force me to believe what you believe and you can't compel my speech in order to validate you. You don't have that kind of control over me.
 
This is a load of crap that you have absolutely no data to support. How do you know what parents are thinking?

This is literally what queer theory believes. And now they are informing the medical industry to tow this line. It all comes from John Money and his successors. I strongly recommend you watch this short talk about it. If you don't like JP then you can pick any number of other videos that talk about it.

Gay men like having a cock and balls. Trans women that prep for full transition DON'T.

I'm a hetero cis-male, there is absolutely NOTHING THAT WOULD EVER MAKE ME WANT TO CUT OFF MY COCK.

EVEN AT 9, 10, 11 years old, nobody could have convinced me to get rid of my precious.

If you ASK gay men if they want their cock chopped off and tits they will tell you no.

If you actually talked to a tween trans woman, you would feel just how uncomfortable they are in a male body, how they can't stand their cock so they tuck it up.

How they want breasts and to wear panties and stockings and heels and dresses like every other girl and woman.

BASICALLY YOU'RE FOS

You're citing grown adults. Obviously adults know who they are. I'm talking about very young children whose primary identity hasn't been formed yet. John Money's single case study became the torch that queer theorists used to push the idea that boys can become girls and girls can become boys. Ironically, the boy used in John Money's unethical study grew up to be a man with adopted children and a wife, even though John Money convinced his parents to have his genitals cut off as a kid and raised as a girl.

So you are actually correct. But I think in the mean time, a lot of children will be maimed because they are being confused at a very young age.

No, but hetero sissy cross dressers and hetero butch domineering women are evidence of gender fluidity.

I don't give a shit about gender fluidity. I care that people are trying to physically alter their bodies and doing damage to themselves. Meanwhile their whole gender concept could change in 5 years because how we see ourselves evolves with time. Maybe they are being trendy (i.e. gender affirming care sees WAY WAY more girls than boys, meaning there is a social contagion among girls); maybe they are having serious life problems or other mental disorders but have decided erroneously that they are "in the wrong body," a common feeling when you're going through puberty. The list goes on. These are ideas lifted directly from detransitioners, I am not making them up. A big example being debated right now is that a lot of autistic kids are getting gender affirming care because they often experience body dysmorphia, but they aren't actually trans so the treatment was incorrect.

I agree with @mal3volent that people used to be able to have all kinds of gender expression yet had no desire to try and change their sex. Now heterosexism has crept in, and we have regressed. Girl things mean you want to physically be a girl, and boy things mean you should physically be a boy. And yet the cardinal rule of gender ideology is that gender and sex are supposed to be separate. So what the actual fuck?

The ideology is confusing children and there is a medical industry all too willing to make bank off of it.

You can't be in the wrong body. It's impossible. Thinking/believing you are is a psychiatric condition called dysphoria. It means you are mentally ill. Period. We allow people to get surgeries and hormones because it sometimes eases the symptoms of gender dysphoria. Other than that, NOBODY should be allowed if they aren't a grown ass adult. Puberty and adolescence sucks. Your body goes through changes, many of them radical and unpleasant. It doesn't mean you're in the "wrong body," it means being human is difficult.

Sissy twink gay men, and masc butch lesbians are evidence of gender fluidity.

I realize that. But those gay men are still MEN and the lesbians are still WOMEN. If the wrong doctor or psychologist got their hands on those people as children, they might be convinced that they are actually the other sex!

Otherwise ALL GAY COUPLES would be 2 masculine men, and ALL LESBIAN COUPLES would be 2 femme women, and ALL HETERO COUPLES would contain only people in traditional gender roles.

AND THEY AREN'T.

I KNOW.

My point is, if gender is separate from sex then changing your sex can't affirm your gender! So unless you have bonafide gender dysphoria, you shouldn't be allowed to change ANYTHING because nothing is wrong with your body.

Let the butch girls be butch girls and the sissy boys be sissy boys. Leave their bodies alone!!

Hello? Did the 1980s not happen? It was fashion back then for men to be femme and women to be butch. All the perms men had, and the blouses? All the 80s hair bands with men in lipstick and makeup? Fuck, we've done this already. It's pop culture. Gender fluidity is NOT new OR radical OR groundbreaking. It doesn't mean we should be giving little kids hormones to block their development or chopping off their tits.

I am against gender affirming care for kids except in rare circumstances of bonafide gender dysphoria that has been CLINICALLY verified by multiple independent professionals who are not associated with fucking gender affirming care clinics. You know, the way it used to be before progressives created a medical culture that says YES to everybody and you're a bigot if you want to exercise caution. It's all $$$$ and power politics. Nobody should be able to call themselves trans if they don't have a diagnosis. Non-binary isn't real and queer is an umbrella term, so both are effectively meaningless and these groups don't deserve special status.

They are STERILIZING children. They BETTER have very strong evidence of a dysphoria diagnosis!!! And YES, progressive clinics are telling parents that they HAVE to affirm what their child says they are. NO it's never a phase. NO it's never just cosplay and make belief. You better treat your kid as the gender they say or we will take your kid away from you and give them the "care" you are denying them! (Washington state, California, New York, the list goes on.)

When I was a little boy I would wear my friend's dresses and we would have tea time together. We would pretend we were royal queens having high tea. It was faggy as fuck, but in today's age I might be given fucking estrogen. Fuck all the way off. Just let kids be kids and stop meddling. I'm sorry, but any family that has multiple "trans" children is suffering from progressive parents. Look at these Hollywood actresses like Charlize Theron. She has two adopted sons and both are "girls" now. It's trendy now for progressive parents to have queer kids. And IMO it's all because of cishet parents who don't understand the difference between cosplay and actually making their kids gender conform based on outdated, sexist gender roles.
 
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There are ZERO little children being sterilized. ZERO!

You are propagating the false anti-trans narrative that has been debunked multiple times.

Your detransitioners -- are less than 2% of people who transitioned. Obviously they are the issue - probably nothing will satisfy their lack of being comfortable in their body.

GENITAL Surgery on minors totals 56 ( yes 56 ) from 2019 - 2021. And they were 15-17 years old.

Obviously not an epidemic.

Please peddle your bigoted SCIENTIFICALLY INCORRECT anti-trans bs somewhere else.

I see you didn't address my discussion of fully orgasmic MTF full transition women.

Instead you are probably just going to repeat the BS that trans women can't cum.
 
There are ZERO little children being sterilized. ZERO!

Bullshit. As soon as you block a child's puberty or give them hormones contrary to their birth sex, you are sterilizing them. They will not develop gametes. And after years of that treatment they cannot revert. I'm trained in science, I have the papers.

Do you know what Lupron does to males? It is chemical castration. They use it on male pedophiles in prisons. Using it on an adult may be reversible, but not always. Using it on a male who has not completed puberty causes sterilization. Even if they want to reverse it, they now have a micro penis and their gonads will never produce normal amounts of healthy sperm. Lupon in adults looks more like turning on/off the gonads in adults. In teens and younger, it isn't just about on/off, it's also about blocking development. Once development is blocked, that male will not just magically resume development after adolescence is completed. They are fucked for life.

You are propagating the false anti-trans narrative that has been debunked multiple times.

Debunked my ass.

Your detransitioners -- are less than 2% of people who transitioned. Obviously they are the issue - probably nothing will satisfy their lack of being comfortable in their body.

Oh sure, just blame all of them. Don't bother listening to their stories about how some were in a state of mental health crisis and got unethically persuaded by their medical practitioner into gender affirming care. Or how the person was overzealous and they got NO medical assessment, just a blank check to have gender transition.

Sure, just blame them all. It's "their fault" that a medical expert with years of advanced education didn't do their fucking job properly because the progressive culture in medicine will fire you if you even SUGGEST caution to a patient or say no.

GENITAL Surgery on minors totals 56 ( yes 56 ) from 2019 - 2021. And they were 15-17 years old.

Citation please?

While you're at it, cite the number of teens and children who are on hormone blockers and HRT because that number is enormous.

Please peddle your bigoted SCIENTIFICALLY INCORRECT anti-trans bs somewhere else.

You can call it bigoted all you want, it doesn't disprove anything. I will never shut up. I am seeing this shit in the LGBT community. It's rampant and wrong. It suffers from lack of proper inquiry. There is no discourse allowed.

The overwhelming majority of children and teens who identify as trans grow up to identify as cis. This is why self-declarations of trans should not be allowed.

I see you didn't address my discussion of fully orgasmic MTF full transition women.

I have been dealing with multiple text walls. Pardon me if I missed one actual point.

I have friends in the counselling profession (four of them) and there are a lot of young people who are transitioning or who have fully transitioned who can't have orgasms. They are also sterile. So they are fucked.

Instead you are probably just going to repeat the BS that trans women can't cum.

A lot of them can't. Just visit some of the trans support forums. Don't post, just read. It's all right there.
 
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Hormone treatment does not sterilize. It is often reversible. Simple solution, freeze eggs and sperm.




You provide the citations first since you CLAIM so much bs. The ONUS IS ON YOU TO PROVE Your ASSERTION. (That's how science works)

If you were really looking for the science and truth regarding gender affirming care for trans pre-pubertal, adolescent, and post pubertal minors - you would know the crap you regurgitate is false.

It took me 5 sec to find the fact check article. FIVE SECONDS.

Your bigoted mind is made up and you won't even look for or listen to anything contrary to your current belief. Just like a TRUMP MAGAMORON.

It's sad actually.
 
Hormone treatment does not sterilize. It is often reversible. Simple solution, freeze eggs and sperm.



Fucking factcheck.org -- are you serious?

Here is Reuters, since we're dealing in rinky dink sources: https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/usa-transyouth-care/

Here are some real stats from peer reviewed resources. Between 2016 and 2020, over 3,000 girls had breast/chest surgery. And that was before the movement REALLY took off like wildfire. There are surely WAY more now, but I am not going to dig up more data for your deluded ass. If you even know to read a chart, you'll find all you need at the link.


You provide the citations first since you CLAIM so much bs. The ONUS IS ON YOU TO PROVE Your ASSERTION. (That's how science works)

Factcheck.org isn't a valid source. Get fucked.

If you were really looking for the science and truth regarding gender affirming care for trans pre-pubertal, adolescent, and post pubertal minors - you would know the crap you regurgitate is false.

You've provided no evidence that it's false.

It took me 5 sec to find the fact check article. FIVE SECONDS.

Yup, I know.

Your bigoted mind is made up and you won't even look for or listen to anything contrary to your current belief. Just like a TRUMP MAGAMORON.

It's sad actually.

I live in Canada and aren't part of your pathetic left/right Trump paradigm.

But you're correct, my mind is made up. I know plenty of people who work in health care as I am a former health practitioner myself. I know way more about the realities of what's happening than you do.

Call me a bigot all you like, I don't give one single fuck. It's the only leg you've got to stand one because you've got nothing else but mouth foaming, lefty!
 
I won't cater to the idea that we can't tell what somebody's gender is simply by looking at them because of an incredibly statistically small number of people.
but we can not, that is the point.

Also, if the count of intersex persons is so small, why do they do those involuntary cosmetic surgeries to so many in their birth if not for the fact doctors, parents and society is puzzled about these people they can not fit into binary box, so they have to artificially design these boxes by mutilating people?

"For the diverse array of conditions labeled intersex, the prevalence is estimated to be between 0.02% and 1.7% of the US population, with 1–2 infants per 1,000 receiving surgery annually to normalize genital appearance (6, 7)."

They often have to get some "specialist" to tell if it is boy or girl in birth a lot more often than 0.018 % of cases, because they CAN NOT TELL. (I am no sure the specialist can tell anything other than binary-ideology either). I am trying to find source with exact numbers but I don't remember where I read that from.

"If you ask experts at medical centers how often a child is born so noticeably atypical in terms of genitalia that a specialist in sex differentiation is called in, the number comes out to about 1 in 1,500 to 1 in 2,000 births [0.07–0.05%]. But a lot more people than that are born with subtler forms of sex anatomy variations, some of which won't show up until later in life.[63]"

-wikipedia
 
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Feminizing and masculinizing surgeries: Surgical procedures depend on the diagnosis, and there is often a concern as to whether surgery should be performed at all. Typically, surgery is performed shortly after birth. Defenders of the practice argue that individuals must be clearly identified as male or female for them to function socially and develop "normally". Psychosocial reasons are often stated.

Great world we are living in, huh?

 
but we can not, that is the point.

Yes we can. The default is man or woman, he or she. That's how it is for the overwhelming majority of humanity. If someone has special considerations they can let us know.

If you take a room of 100 people, the overwhelming majority's pronouns will match their sex-based appearance.

I won't play these games with you.

Also, if the count of intersex persons is so small, why do they do those involuntary cosmetic surgeries to so many in their birth if not for the fact doctors, parents and society is puzzled about these people they can not fit into binary box, so they have to artificially design these boxes by mutilating people?

"For the diverse array of conditions labeled intersex, the prevalence is estimated to be between 0.02% and 1.7% of the US population, with 1–2 infants per 1,000 receiving surgery annually to normalize genital appearance (6, 7)."

They often have to get some "specialist" to tell if it is boy or girl in birth a lot more often than 0.018 % of cases, because they CAN NOT TELL. (I am no sure the specialist can tell anything other than binary-ideology either). I am trying to find source with exact numbers but I don't remember where I read that from.

"If you ask experts at medical centers how often a child is born so noticeably atypical in terms of genitalia that a specialist in sex differentiation is called in, the number comes out to about 1 in 1,500 to 1 in 2,000 births [0.07–0.05%]. But a lot more people than that are born with subtler forms of sex anatomy variations, some of which won't show up until later in life.[63]"

-wikipedia

I already addressed the part in bold. Wiki is not a reliable source because it is edited by people with strong political biases.

It's true that infants receive surgery to normalize genital appearance, but that surgery is not always "wrong" as there are many different genital presentations in intersex. For example, the infant may have mostly male genitals but their scortum may have a small slit where an undeveloped and non-functioning vulva is, so they sew it shut. That's not "mutation."

This really has nothing to do with the main topic that I am addressing. You're trying to use intersex for the case of gender fluidity but it's rare medical condition that affects such an insignificant number of people. Besides, you're talking about gender and intersex is about sex. Most intersex people ultimately identify as man or woman, not non-binary, and their genes are mainly XX or XY. I feel that the TQ+ co-opts intersex and then inflates the incidence of it to justify their beliefs about gender ideology. In reality, the vast majority of humanity is on the sex binary and identifies as such; and the overwhelming majority of people who identify as non-binary are simply male or female engaging in different fashion choices. If you take away the cosplay they are just male or female.

I have no interest in discussing this intersex topic further with you. It's not proof of fluidity anymore than a child born without an arm or a leg is proof of a new variant of the human body. They are medical abnormalities, just like gender dysphoria is a medical abnormality. I've mingled in the LGBT community my entire life and I think I've met one openly intersex person. The fact that the TQ+ trots out token intersex people to justify their heinous ideology is both sad and pathetic. I think they should leave intersex people alone.
 
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From a long opinion piece in NYT
At no point during her medical or surgical transition, Powell says, did anyone ask her about the reasons behind her gender dysphoria or her depression. At no point was she asked about her sexual orientation. And at no point was she asked about any previous trauma, and so neither the therapists nor the doctors ever learned that she’d been sexually abused as a child.
“I wish there had been more open conversations,” Powell, now 23 and detransitioned, told me. “But I was told there is one cure and one thing to do if this is your problem, and this will help you.”
Progressives often portray the heated debate over childhood transgender care as a clash between those who are trying to help growing numbers of children express what they believe their genders to be and conservative politicians who won’t let kids be themselves.

But right-wing demagogues are not the only ones who have inflamed this debate. Transgender activists have pushed their own ideological extremism, especially by pressing for a treatment orthodoxy that has faced increased scrutiny in recent years. Under that model of care, clinicians are expected to affirm a young person’s assertion of gender identity and even provide medical treatment before, or even without, exploring other possible sources of distress.

Many who think there needs to be a more cautious approach — including well-meaning liberal parents, doctors and people who have undergone gender transition and subsequently regretted their procedures — have been attacked as anti-trans and intimidated into silencing their concerns.
And while Donald Trump denounces “left-wing gender insanity” and many trans activists describe any opposition as transphobic, parents in America’s vast ideological middle can find little dispassionate discussion of the genuine risks or trade-offs involved in what proponents call gender-affirming care.
Powell’s story shows how easy it is for young people to get caught up by the pull of ideology in this atmosphere

As Kids, They Thought They Were Trans. They No Longer Do.​

Feb. 2, 2024
 
The 2020 New York Times "nonbinary" bubble

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