🌟🌟 Social 🌟🌟 â«¸SIED Social v. Meathead's Tea-Breakâ«·

trozzle said:
Goddamn Caber. Know I should dose it in the evening, but I've just got this thing against taking any kind of oral NOT on an empty stomach.....now I can barely keep my eyes open lol. Drowsiness side never hit me this hard before....though I did sleep like a brick last night for once, so perhaps I just overslept.

Meh, libido is well and truly on its way up....which is handy given I'm defs in with that girl I had lunch with a while back....yew!

Now where's Neo when we need some lulzy sex life stories...
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If you don't mind me asking why the caber..?
 
At about the 4 week mark into my Tren run, libido crashed hard...inconveniently my Tren dosage was to increase beginning week 5...That was the first sign I might need to go the Caber...2 weeks later nipples getting itchy like I cut them shaving lol...week later they're puffy and tender. Also noticing a little bit of ED, which I initially brushed off as a lack of libido though at about week 6 concluded it wasn't.

Have been running the same dosage of everything else the whole cycle (350mg/wk test E, 40mg/ED Dbol, 420mg/wk Mast prop, 12.5mg/ED Aromasin).

Not calling it gyno, before you tell me there's no such thing as prolactin-induced gyno :P
 
trozzle said:
At about the 4 week mark into my Tren run, libido crashed hard...inconveniently my Tren dosage was to increase beginning week 5...That was the first sign I might need to go the Caber...2 weeks later nipples getting itchy like I cut them shaving lol...week later they're puffy and tender. Also noticing a little bit of ED, which I initially brushed off as a lack of libido though at about week 6 concluded it wasn't.

Have been running the same dosage of everything else the whole cycle (350mg/wk test E, 40mg/ED Dbol, 420mg/wk Mast prop, 12.5mg/ED Aromasin).

Not calling it gyno, before you tell me there's no such thing as prolactin-induced gyno :P
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There is no need for caber or prami with AAS specifically. Only when something is constantly elevating prolactin, like for instance a prolactinoma, a mild but frequently occurring tumor of the pituitar.
Prami & Caber are D2 receptor agonists.. Dopamine is part of the negative feedback of prolactin release..

Gyno is an estrogen issue, something in your cycle or your method of administration is causing estrogen issues, prami & caber will not resolve problems caused by E2...
Are you sure your Tren is Tren, not Nandrolone, is your Mast and or Aromasin genuine... The Test and Dbol at that dose shouldn't be an issue..
How often do you inject each compound, when do you take the Dbol..?
 
The only thing I see caber and prami being useful for (aside from prolactin) is sleeping through trensomnia or if you want to reduce the refractory period after orgasm.
 
I inject everything ED. 50mg Test E, 70mg Tren A (as sure as you can be without lab testing it's legitimacy), 60mg Mast Prop, 40mg Dbol (20mg first thing in the morning, 20mg before dinner. Both empty stomach). Aromasin was in an unopened Pharma style container with labelling etc.

I know this isn't a study or anything actually reliable, but what do you make from this line Guido:

Tren is also a Progestin, it bonds to the receptor of the female sex hormone Progesterone. Which is responsible for preparing the body for milk production.
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(src: http://forums.steroid.com/anabolic-steroids-questions-answers/356499-how-use-caber-thread.html)

I've read somewhere else that this can be mistaken for gyno, as the nipples and glands still get puffy etc...or am I mistaken?
 
trozzle said:
I inject everything ED. 50mg Test E, 70mg Tren A (as sure as you can be without lab testing it's legitimacy), 60mg Mast Prop, 40mg Dbol (20mg first thing in the morning, 20mg before dinner. Both empty stomach). Aromasin was in an unopened Pharma style container with labelling etc.

I know this isn't a study or anything actually reliable, but what do you make from this line Guido:


(src: http://forums.steroid.com/anabolic-steroids-questions-answers/356499-how-use-caber-thread.html)

I've read somewhere else that this can be mistaken for gyno, as the nipples and glands still get puffy etc...or am I mistaken?
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Gyno can be prolactin/progesterone induced as well as estrogen induced.
 
Must've been someone else here that insisted there was no such thing as Tren/prolactin-induced gyno. Thought it was yourself haha
 
-Guido- said:
Gyno can be prolactin/progesterone induced as well as estrogen induced.
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Hey Guido.. What's your opinions regarding Big Cats comments on gyno? he puts forward a very convincing argument to its non existence:

Aside from the fact that there is no such thing as tren gyno and the fact that progesterone would not cause gyno in the absence of estrogen, and is actually known to down regulate estrogen receptors, it should also be noted that trenbolone is not an actual progestin, but seems to behave more like an SPRM, where it mildly stimulates PRbeta, but the net result is a down regulation of progesterone, similar to the use of medroxyprogesterone. This is also fairly evident comparing trenbolone and progesterone as doping agents, where doping with progesterone tends to lead to increased endurance and fat gain, trenbolone is known to do the opposite. Meaning its effects are more antagonistic than agonistic at the progesterone receptor.
Caber and prami are dopamine D2 agonists, this doesn't have fuck all to do with progesterone, but does seem to reduce central release of prolactin, another hormone called in to explain something that doesn't actually exist (tren gyno) to sell more shit you don't need (caber and prami). Progesterone blockers do exist, like RU486, the abortion pill. Its also a potent glucocorticoid antagonist by the way. However it hasn't been shown to help with anything at all really. It's also quite expensive, not so much fun to use either.

The worst thing is, its not actually based on anything. While people who believe this stuff will actively try to counter your arguments as to why it is not so, they simply forget there never was a reason for the assumption in the first place.

The short answer regarding Tren gyno is, yes, it is bullshit. In all my years I've never had, nor seen in anyone I've followed first hand, tren gyno. I know others, like Bill Roberts, who have been in this business longer than me, and possibly one of the few people who has had more experience with athletes using first hand, feels the same way and has expressed his sentiments on the topic.

The frequency with which it is reported however does suggest that there are enough incidents of things that can be seen as tren gyno. First and foremost culprit is bad gear (but wait, I know this guy, it has to be good gear, blablabla : It's underground gear, fact of the matter is unless you were there when the product was made in china until the vial was sealed you DON'T KNOW). Product could be laced with nandrolone or testosterone etc. I know what tren feels like, it usually makes you feel like shit for a bit before it makes you feel great. Some of the best trens I've used haven't had this, so while I consider them the best, they were probably laced. Reason number two, you are getting gyno from something else. People say it started when they started tren, but neglected to mention it was part of a blast and they upped their test and kicked it off with some dbol. What did you think was gonna happen ? In all cases, gyno is treated with anti-e's, yes even cases of bodybuilders getting gyno being treated by an endocrinologist.

One side I always mention however is lactation. There is a possibility, in a rare scenario, that tren can cause lactation. It's not even likely to be paired with any (significant) gyno. The way this happens is similar to what happens in pregnant females. In pregnant females estrogen and progesterone peak and they make prolactin levels rise, but at the same time they block the effect. You can liken this to using high dose testosterone and nandrolone. Now when the woman gives birth, estrogen and progesterone drop and stimulation of the nipple activates the prolactin, resulting in lactation. Say you now switch your high test/nandro cycle to a cutting cycle, drop your testosterone and nandrolone, start using an anti-e, and get the SPRM effect of tren in there, you'll get a similar drop that can activate already elevated prolactin and lead to lactation, especially if you are the type that likes playing with your nipples. This should, by the way, resolve itself in a short while.

Again, however, that last one is sort of a perfect storm thing, and a very rare occurrence, but unlike actual tren gyno, it is a possibility.
 
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I read that on my lunch break and the dude is pretty intelligent and has the "credentials" for this type of knowledge.

Side note: RIP to my 00 and 4 gage ear piercings. Took em out today to close em up for possible future job opportunities. I've had em for years, they're like identifying features to me and now I'm sad :(
 
I don't know if it's prolactin or progesterone induced, but Deca gives me sore painful lumps at a low dose at week 5, I will run it again at 250mgs P/W with Caber this time and if I still get the issues, then I'll just write Deca off !

As far as Tren is concerned, not from this board but from several others, the same thing happens and most people agree it is Prolactin with both Deca and Tren, so after my experience with Deca I wouldn't run Tren without Caber either,

A thought tho, NPP or Tren Ace every 3rd day jabs, gna cause these problems even nearly as much ?
Since they're in - job done - and back out again, until your next jab...

I think I'd rather give that a bash before fucking with long esters of these compounds again,
I starting to become a fan of short esters now on top of nicely dosed Test year round. :)
 
benzoman12345 said:
I don't know if it's prolactin or progesterone induced, but Deca gives me sore painful lumps at a low dose at week 5, I will run it again at 250mgs P/W with Caber this time and if I still get the issues, then I'll just write Deca off !

As far as Tren is concerned, not from this board but from several others, the same thing happens and most people agree it is Prolactin with both Deca and Tren, so after my experience with Deca I wouldn't run Tren without Caber either,

A thought tho, NPP or Tren Ace every 3rd day jabs, gna cause these problems even nearly as much ?
Since they're in - job done - and back out again, until your next jab...

I think I'd rather give that a bash before fucking with long esters of these compounds again,
I starting to become a fan of short esters now on top of nicely dosed Test year round. :)
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Most people are like sheep and will agree with anything, doesn't mean they are correct..!!

If your having issues with side effects from longer esters, pin them more frequently than their half-life..

I hope your not pinning Tren-A E3rd day..??

Here's a bit more I have on Nandrolone:

Whereas tren clearly shows the effects of a progestin in its action, nandrolone seems to exert none of the typical progestagenic effects. In fact it seems to perfectly fit the bill of an estrogenic steroid, something that was widely believed and accepted before people had access to medline. Nandrolone does aromatize, but to a much lesser degree. It’s also been shown to bind the estrogen receptor, but doesn’t seem to activate it unless at micromolar doses in vitro, something that would take massive consumption to mimic in vivo. One study however did estimate nandrolone’s estrogenic potential at 60% that of estradiol. With those figures a higher prevalence of gyno with this steroid than with testosterone isn’t that hard to imagine, especially when you know that the same enzyme that converts testosterone to DHT (5-alpha-reductase), the metabolite with the most profound effect on estrogen inhibition in the breast also converts nandrolone to DHN, which is a significantly WEAKER androgen (thus causing a massive A:E imbalance). But where does the estrogenic action come from ? Researchers already established that aromatase, PR and ER did not play a role because the co-administration of inhibitors for each compound had no significant effect on the estrogenic potential. The elucidation of its mechanism came through a study on the synthetic steroid estren, a direct precursor to nandrolone. It showed that estren was able to mediate estrogenic effects by binding the AR and activating Estrogen Response Elements (ERE’s) in the DNA. Apparently estren cause the AR to confuse itself with an ER. Estren however is a highly unstable metabolite, which rapidly converts to nandrolone under physiological circumstances. The time-frame of estrens effect (increased ERE activation while it is increasingly metabolized to nandrolone) and estrens low RBA to the AR compared to nandrolone clearly shows that this effect is mediated by nandrolone. So nandrolone causes estrogenic effects by binding the androgen receptor.

This causes a huge problem in treatment, since the only way to stop this effect is to block the AR, and with it the anabolic effect of nandrolone. This is crucial : THE ONLY WAY TO STOP NANDROLONE’S ESTROGENIC EFFECT IS TO NOT USE IT.
 
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Update on my current blast if anyone interested, off training for about a year dropped down to 170 lbs, weighed in today at 211 so 41lb increase.
1rm bench press from 95-145kg
Repping 32kg flat Bench dumbbells up to 55kg for 8 reps
Incline 27.5s to 47.5kgs

Didn't measure any other areas of stremght at the start although imo it's been fucking successful... 13 weeks in, 7 to go to try and hit 220lbs if possible with Superdrol to start at 20mg pd on the first...
 
Could be water related if you keep carbs high (I do). I've done some fun "dry out days" where I cut carbs and sodium and a couple days (sometimes the next day) definition is incredible and you see what you really have..
 
That's why I said may instead of am lol, I honestly can't tell if I've gained much fat, I do eat a fair amount of sodium to be honest, I don't have a lot of free time so I rely on ready made shit from Iceland, I just had a sausage and egg muffin which cost a pound, had 45g carbs 3g of sugars, 9g fat and 22g protein... Sounds like a bodybuilding dream doesn't it? No... It had 2.5 grams of salt Fs... Lol then had a cottage pie same story though more carbs more protein and a higher though not extremely bad fat ratio, had another 2g of salt... Why don't they make this shit without salt...
 
Recovering from a stomach virus. This really accelerated my cut. Lost 10lbs in 4 days. I need something to laugh at after non-stop runs/vomiting/stomach cramps for 4 days. =D
 
Horrific dry cough from the tail-end of a nasty flu, combined with the worst Tren cough I can recall.....holy shit I actually wanted to die just now lol. You know it's bad when you sit there on the edge of your bed, coughing, crying, dribbling EVERYWHERE, and you just don't care hahaha
 
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