Harm Reduction ⫸Should I Try HEROIN?⫷

[December Flower]

In many ways you are right, but I'm speaking for my own situation. I haven't had the five year herion habit you mention, I have used, but so little and long ago that I don't think it's relevant here, I wouldn't know where to get it. It ended when my boyfriend failed to come back with it, he never came back at all and by the time I eventually realised all that I was too sick to go anywhere, so a friend stayed with me and I've not used it since.
My situation was I smoked hash as a kid and poppy stalks when in season, taken from a relative's garden that's a harsh smoke though, just about worth it. From age twelve I was schooled in the use of virtually every drug available at the time by a helpful older relative of mine, right under the noses of our social workers. When I ran away age sixteen, knowing as my sister had before me, that I could look after myself better without our parents around, that street knowledge was essential and is probably one reason I didn't die then even though I fully expected my life to end in my early twenties at the latest.
What I didn't say, but you probably gathered by now is I was well traumatised as a child for all sorts of reasons and I've used drugs for as long as I can remember to block it out except for the first twenty four years of my marriage when my husband insisted on sobriety while we raised our kids. I fully agreed in principle and we both mainly did the right thing, not wanting my kids to feel like I did as a kid. I feel guilt for using drugs in pregnancy, but done is done and the kids all went to uni and seem to like us (their parents) even after a year of various lockdowns and all staying together in the same house!
So now I'm in my fifties and my kids are all adults, I have had a painful condition since birth which I always had to live with as a kid, I was always in trouble for not keeping up in anything physical, in hindsight I was probably drawn to drugs for the pain relief as well as mental relief.
During my sober years I didn't even take an aspirin, nothing (except for the occasional slip up, but that wasn't for aspirin!). My middle child had ADHD and was very affected by food additives, so for many years I cooked every meal from raw ingredients as they were when they left the farm, organic if I could afford it. No processed food, no coloured sweets or flavoured crisps, no fruit juices (rots kids teeth). So none of my kids ever had a filling, the two who have graduated uni so far, did so with a first, the highest grade. And they even like us! So I'm very pleased with life in general right now.
But lockdown is fucking boring isn't it?
Therein lies the problem.
I'm at home 24/7 with all my family.
And I love them
And I know that me without drugs right now would mean the rest of my family put up with me being a moody menopausal bitch 24/7
So isn't it better I find ways to be the happy person who cheers everyone else and everyone loves to be around me?
I'm not spending beyond my means, we all have our own incomes now so money is fine.
My doctor gives me a lot of prescription meds, it's on the relevant thread already, plus I have ethically sourced weed and additional opiates, not heroin though.
I don't drive.
I work from home on the computer and I can manage that part time at times when I'm clear, but really I'm stoned one way or another 24/7 and I'm not coming out of this comfortable way of being any time soon.
I see no reason to. I dose up on opiates before cleaning the house for example, I put on my headsphones and I don't even notice the time, I'm so enjoying cleaning those toilets, lol.
The alternative is to be sober, straight, whatever you like to call it. I try to scrub the shower, but my fingers are too painful after a couple of minutes, I change cloths, brushes, try to manage the pain I'm in. I begin to feel whatever chemicals are related to pain and stress coming into my brain, they make the pain worse and make me think back to my childhood, I get caught in circular thoughts that persist until the night, I'm no fun to be with, I can't sleep, I wake up tired and have brainfog all day.
That is sobriety. How is that better?

This is a very touching story. PTSD is a bitch & I think you're absolutely in the right protecting your family, even if it's from yourself. You have responsibilities, and you need to meet those, no matter what. I've acknoledged in a post that in some cases, you won't get around opioids. I just think it's important to maintain a position of "if it's a must", not out of sheer curiosity, or depression that could be fixed another way. Not for the prize you might pay.

But other people asking themselves, "Should I do heroin?" are drawn to it out of a sense of adventure and curiosity. Heroin is, to quote a song by Cold Play, "an island to be discovered".

Not everyone becomes hopelessly addicted. Some people really are invincible. But you won't know until you try it.

The story of Samson comes to mind. Samson is invincible, he defeats an army of thousands, and is famed for his strength throughout the land of Israel. Then he falls in love with Delila, and Delila becomes his undoing, and because of her the Philisters take Samson prisoner and finally kill him (well they die, too)

Don't fall in love with Delila

 

[PriestTheyCalledHim]

I'm glad you acknowledged this. For people in severe physical and mental/emotional pain, the risk of addiction is serious. But even in those cases it can help. My boyfriend is a guitarist and suffers from major depression and heroin clears his head enough to allow him to write and play music.

But other people asking themselves, "Should I do heroin?" are drawn to it out of a sense of adventure and curiosity. Heroin is, to quote a song by Cold Play, "an island to be discovered".

Not everyone becomes hopelessly addicted. Some people really are invincible. But you won't know until you try it.

Keep telling yourself this.

Every.
Single.
Addict.
To heroin or opiates, or other hard drugs tells themselves these lies of addiction, that they are not addicted, have opiates under control, can stop whenever they want, can use recreationally, that opiates or whatever they are addicted to helps their depression or mental illness, etc.

 

[PriestTheyCalledHim]

In many ways you are right, but I'm speaking for my own situation. I haven't had the five year herion habit you mention, I have used, but so little and long ago that I don't think it's relevant here, I wouldn't know where to get it. It ended when my boyfriend failed to come back with it, he never came back at all and by the time I eventually realised all that I was too sick to go anywhere, so a friend stayed with me and I've not used it since.
My situation was I smoked hash as a kid and poppy stalks when in season, taken from a relative's garden that's a harsh smoke though, just about worth it. From age twelve I was schooled in the use of virtually every drug available at the time by a helpful older relative of mine, right under the noses of our social workers. When I ran away age sixteen, knowing as my sister had before me, that I could look after myself better without our parents around, that street knowledge was essential and is probably one reason I didn't die then even though I fully expected my life to end in my early twenties at the latest.
What I didn't say, but you probably gathered by now is I was well traumatised as a child for all sorts of reasons and I've used drugs for as long as I can remember to block it out except for the first twenty four years of my marriage when my husband insisted on sobriety while we raised our kids. I fully agreed in principle and we both mainly did the right thing, not wanting my kids to feel like I did as a kid. I feel guilt for using drugs in pregnancy, but done is done and the kids all went to uni and seem to like us (their parents) even after a year of various lockdowns and all staying together in the same house!
So now I'm in my fifties and my kids are all adults, I have had a painful condition since birth which I always had to live with as a kid, I was always in trouble for not keeping up in anything physical, in hindsight I was probably drawn to drugs for the pain relief as well as mental relief.
During my sober years I didn't even take an aspirin, nothing (except for the occasional slip up, but that wasn't for aspirin!). My middle child had ADHD and was very affected by food additives, so for many years I cooked every meal from raw ingredients as they were when they left the farm, organic if I could afford it. No processed food, no coloured sweets or flavoured crisps, no fruit juices (rots kids teeth). So none of my kids ever had a filling, the two who have graduated uni so far, did so with a first, the highest grade. And they even like us! So I'm very pleased with life in general right now.
But lockdown is fucking boring isn't it?
Therein lies the problem.
I'm at home 24/7 with all my family.
And I love them
And I know that me without drugs right now would mean the rest of my family put up with me being a moody menopausal bitch 24/7
So isn't it better I find ways to be the happy person who cheers everyone else and everyone loves to be around me?
I'm not spending beyond my means, we all have our own incomes now so money is fine.
My doctor gives me a lot of prescription meds, it's on the relevant thread already, plus I have ethically sourced weed and additional opiates, not heroin though.
I don't drive.
I work from home on the computer and I can manage that part time at times when I'm clear, but really I'm stoned one way or another 24/7 and I'm not coming out of this comfortable way of being any time soon.
I see no reason to. I dose up on opiates before cleaning the house for example, I put on my headsphones and I don't even notice the time, I'm so enjoying cleaning those toilets, lol.
The alternative is to be sober, straight, whatever you like to call it. I try to scrub the shower, but my fingers are too painful after a couple of minutes, I change cloths, brushes, try to manage the pain I'm in. I begin to feel whatever chemicals are related to pain and stress coming into my brain, they make the pain worse and make me think back to my childhood, I get caught in circular thoughts that persist until the night, I'm no fun to be with, I can't sleep, I wake up tired and have brainfog all day.
That is sobriety. How is that better?

What happened during your childhood?

 

[papercuts]

What happened during your childhood?

Dunno how to answer that. Everything and nothing (don't remember where that's from). Basically being a kid didn't suit me any more than it suited the adults to have me about.

Edit; I just realised you mean what was the trauma. I didn't catch on from the first read through, see, that's the great thing about being a bit shitfaced right now, it doesn't sodding matter

 

[papercuts]

This is a very touching story. PTSD is a bitch & I think you're absolutely in the right protecting your family, even if it's from yourself. You have responsibilities, and you need to meet those, no matter what. I've acknoledged in a post that in some cases, you won't get around opioids. I just think it's important to maintain a position of "if it's a must", not out of sheer curiosity, or depression that could be fixed another way. Not for the prize you might pay.



The story of Samson comes to mind. Samson is invincible, he defeats an army of thousands, and is famed for his strength throughout the land of Israel. Then he falls in love with Delila, and Delila becomes his undoing, and because of her the Philisters take Samson prisoner and finally kill him (well they die, too)

Don't fall in love with Delila

Yes, it would have been quicker to just pull you to one side and let you know you sound a bit preachy in some posts.

 

[PriestTheyCalledHim]

Dunno how to answer that. Everything and nothing (don't remember where that's from). Basically being a kid didn't suit me any more than it suited the adults to have me about.

Edit; I just realised you mean what was the trauma. I didn't catch on from the first read through, see, that's the great thing about being a bit shitfaced right now, it doesn't sodding matter

What was the trauma? How do you deal with fentanyl in heroin? Or do you get legal diamorphine, or methadone via a drug rehab/addiction centre?

How do you deal with the itching and vomiting, or urge to get sick on opiates? I had this on low doses of oxycodone I would take alone or with friends and it turned me off opiates completely. I also would get horrible stomach cramps when coming down off of them. I never took them, hydrocodone, or codeine daily as I did not have easy access to them and if I was going to buy drugs I would buy LSD, mushrooms, pot/hashish, or alcohol instead. I only ever mixed cannabis/hash with opiates, never alcohol or anything else although I have friends that loved speedballs-coke and heroin together, heroin and alcohol with or without Benzos-don't do this it's super dangerous, and all sort other mixtures.

 

[papercuts]

What was the trauma? How do you deal with fentanyl in heroin? Or do you get legal diamorphine, or methadone via a drug rehab/addiction centre?

How do you deal with the itching and vomiting, or urge to get sick on opiates? I had this on low doses of oxycodone I would take alone or with friends and it turned me off opiates completely. I also would get horrible stomach cramps when coming down off of them. I never took them, hydrocodone, or codeine daily as I did not have easy access to them and if I was going to buy drugs I would buy LSD, mushrooms, pot/hashish, or alcohol instead. I only ever mixed cannabis/hash with opiates, never alcohol or anything else although I have friends that loved speedballs-coke and heroin together, heroin and alcohol with or without Benzos-don't do this it's super dangerous, and all sort other mixtures.

Dunno, I'm not feeling so clever this morning, I woke in a pool of sweat and I might yet throw up, but I hear ya, I've had much much worse. I posted mainly to make the point that if it's useful and ok when your sob story is good enough, well I've yet to meet an addict without a cracking good sob story one way or another.
I was wondering how to word the next bit and that Nirvana song, "You know you're right" started playing in my head, that just about sums it up, don't you just love when your subconscious is helpful instead of playing tricks on you? When I used to do LSD, mushrooms, speed, I'd feel very little of what I wanted, take more, repeat a few times. Trouble comes when you wake up realising that what you did last night could have killed you or someone else because you ended up dodging traffic or tightrope walking someone's house roof or similar. I could never judge that shit because the quality varied so much.
I don't want other drugs from sources I don't know, not enough to bother finding them anyway. Opiates and weed and non benzo prescriptions are great right now and all we ever have is now.

 

[Olivia Nicole]

 

[December Flower]

Again: impressionable people.
Please? I beg you! Do you have a conscience? This dude certainly doesn't.
How many people do you think you've made start the heroin, with your bullshit words?
Made people think they were invincible and that they could do it too without ever getting addicted? Like you keep saying is SO EASY. You're playing heroin down like it's gummi bears, and they will believe you, because you are saying what they want to hear. "Hey take heroin it's totally no problem I'm doing perfect", they want to read this post exactly, and then they'll be convinced enough.
Destroying their lives in the process. We heard your opinion, it's on every other page in this thread, multiple times, over and over and over.
Please please please grow a conscience. Please. I rly rly don't want to imagine the damage you already did, i'm getting nauseated just thinking about it. I know you have diminished access to your feelings because of the heroin, but please please just try to think about others, not you. Just for one second think about others, I'd love you for that
Any other thread, try TDS, Drug Culture, try to talk with fellow addicts about this, share your success and your strategies with addicts, and not with people who are weighing it over FOR FUCK'S SAKE! Please stop

You talk so much about how successful you are, but I haven't seen you in HR once. No, for 4 years the only thing you do is write down the pros and cons of heroin-consumption and shout it out to the world. You've said you're a sex worker, maybe that would be an information worthwhile: To acquire your wonderful god-particle of a drug, you have to sell your body in one way or the other. But you talk about how great it is, and nothing else, and ONLY on this thread, WHY THE FUCK THIS THREAD?! it pisses me off beyond belief. I lost one of my best friends to people talking about heroin like you, and I'm going to do everything I can to stop you. Sure, it's not much, but expect my nagging wherever you go.

Yknow it's OK if there's some people posting like once saying "yeah it's awesome", fine, but you post on almost every page, it's the only thing you do in this forum, and you're pretty much the only person who's pro-"other people trying heroin" here. Even others who love their heroin say "STAY THE FUCK AWAY". There's one or the other odd comment, but I've read this entire thread, and you just keep posting and posting and posting really trying people to join your side.
This has nothing to do with your life, why are you SO OBSESSED with getting people to do heroin? You really want them to take it, it's obvious, but why? You only post in this thread, basically no other thread. You just want people to do heroin. That's your entire agenda. Why? What's so good about that? You can defend your own addiction all you want, calling it safe and good and whatnod, but you have to know what this drug does to others, and you have to know that your words have very likely created a bunch of fiends already. This thread has high attendance. You're doing a horrible thing, and I think you don't even realize you are.

 

[curiosity]

Just to give a bit of insight into how much heroin can grab a hold of you and just never let go, I've been on suboxone for a few years and have actually been doing pretty well. I went to school, got a good job and I'm actually really happy at work. Still though, to this day I still find myself thinking about it and even going a little crazy obsessing over it even though I haven't touched it in years. I should also note I'd only done H a handful of times. My main opioids were oxys and hydromorphone. Still though it's heroin that I think about because it's leaps and bounds ahead of other opioids and it's the only opioid that I know is strong enough to still get me high while on suboxone(for those that aren't familiar suboxone contains a small dose of naloxone which binds very tightly to opioid receptors so that opioids can't actually get you high and is used to treat overdoses for this same reason). Anyway, bottom line, even after years of doing well and just taking my suboxone as prescribed as well as getting down to just 2mg a day I'm starting to feel like I'll never REALLY be back to normal. Sure I might stay "clean" but I'll still be thinking about it and even driving myself a little crazy thinking about heroin sometimes. So please do yourself a favor and don't touch the shit, even if you think you're already at rock bottom, trust me, it can get A LOT worse.

 

[xxsicknessxx]

I'll give the same advise I got once and ignored. Once you try it you'll never be the same, also I know from a life time of rehabs that 90% of people relapse im happy to say I've been sober over a year now and I've tried h I was addicted to oxy. But anyways doing drugs is fun often times but when things go bad they go really bad and I would advise you to get a job and a girlfriend instead of doing h. But can you do drugs and live a normal life. Yes for sure. But I didn't get it right I found this website after I tried drugs not before plus I never took harm reduction seriously. I really messed up my life and I'm seriously in a lucky spot right now with a real chance to get my life back on track. Only time will tell.

It reminds me of becoming a vampire. You'll just end up with a taste for blood forever. It never goes away. Not that vampires are real but that's what drug addiction always reminded me of. Vampires and blood

 

[Olivia Nicole]

@December Flower, why are you engaging in an ad hominem attack against me rather than addressing what Professor Carl Hart is saying about heroin use?

An expert in the field of how drugs affect human beings has courageously acknowledged his own responsible use of heroin and convincingly argues that society's perception of 'hard drugs' is simply wrong.

I'm in the U.S where legislation regulating recreational use of cannabis is rapidly becoming the norm. A similar paradigmatic shift in our thinking needs to be applied to heroin and other drugs. As Professor Hart says, heroin itself is not a problem. And that's a message that needs to be communicated with at least as much frequency as the scare mongering about heroin.

 

[December Flower]

@December Flower, why are you engaging in an ad hominem attack against me rather than addressing what Professor Carl Hart is saying about heroin use?

An expert in the field of how drugs affect human beings has courageously acknowledged his own responsible use of heroin and convincingly argues that society's perception of 'hard drugs' is simply wrong.

I'm in the U.S where legislation regulating recreational use of cannabis of is rapidly becoming the norm. A similar paradigmatic shift in our thinking needs to be applied to heroin and other drugs. As Professor Hart says, heroin itself is not a problem. And that's a message that needs to be communicated with at least as much frequency as the scare mongering about heroin.

yeah, exactly. you just ignore the 99% of people that can't deal with heroin responsibly, and focus on the 1% that can. Cool idea. I'm sure you're very Hart for the Professor, you proved that time and time again, and he graciously sells his image for money promoting a lifestyle that has shitloads of people by the balls and will never let go. No, just keep focussing on the 1% that can handle it and promote it in neon colours, please.

edit: also in no fucking parallel universe where babies are indestructible unstoppable killing machines will heroin ever be treated like marihuana is. Marihuana was mostly illegalised because the paper industry feared that hemp paper would kill their business turns out electronic media did.
Heroin was legal in the first place, there's an old German commercial "Heroin für Kinder", child formula. It was illegalised, and it will never be openly available like that. What might be, is that they will decriminalize it, and help addicts get off this stuff. So maintenance, yes, but decreasing maintenance, not "yay heroin". wtf

 

[Olivia Nicole]

you just ignore the 99% of people that can't deal with heroin responsibly, and focus on the 1% that can.

Facts About Heroin Without the Stigma

Heroin is a man-made opioid drug that helps to relieve pain. Learn more.

drugpolicy.org

 

[Pickledlemons]

I was actually really curious about this and did some research at one point in the past. I remember finding evidence to suggest that something like 30% of people who try heroin end up developing a habit. Thats a very risky roll of the dice.

 

[December Flower]

I was actually really curious about this and did some research at one point in the past. I remember finding evidence to suggest that something like 30% of people who try heroin end up developing a habit. Thats a very risky roll of the dice.

@Olivia Nicole this. I think it's 23% or something, but still such a risky gamble.
I wish you could see that somehow. How many heroin users who can handle it? 1%? If even 1?
And you advertise it. Dude, I wouldn't even advertise weed. The fuck is wrong with you? Sorry.

I don't want to insult you, but i hate your fucking guts so much. You have 0 to gain out of this, and you just promote heroin to random people. I rly rly rly rly hate you. Trying to stay civil. Please stop promoting heroin to people. Talk about your strategies with addicts, please, and stop making new ones.

 

[dalpat077]

@Olivia Nicole this. I think it's 23% or something, but still such a risky gamble.
I wish you could see that somehow. How many heroin users who can handle it? 1%? If even 1?
And you advertise it. Dude, I wouldn't even advertise weed. The fuck is wrong with you? Sorry.

I don't want to insult you, but i hate your fucking guts so much. You have 0 to gain out of this, and you just promote heroin to random people. I rly rly rly rly hate you. Trying to stay civil. Please stop promoting heroin to people. Talk about your strategies with addicts, please, and stop making new ones.

Yeah listen up. I don't want to become unpopular (or more unpopular than I may be). But I've been watching this thread closely and I have to say that I agree with you and your posts on this topic 100% and then some.

What strikes me and is unfathomable: these pro-Herion posts are based on the opinion and writings of one, maybe two, select individuals. And who knows what their objectives are. While at the same time: this same thread contains dozens, if not hundreds, of posts by actual users and addicts, both past and current, that say differently and almost without exception. I'm sorry and sure don't mean to offend anyone. But that speaks volumes to me. And I like to think I'm relatively intelligent and somewhat broadminded (on topics such as this anyway). I'm all for openly discussing things and making people aware. But downplaying the possible ramifications and with such conviction doesn't sit well with me. That's not harm reduction i.e. not even a semblance thereof.

And as I've noted before and playing Devil's advocate: what if this thread, or one of those books, was the very first reference point that some young person came across (somebody that has not yet lived life or seen the things that I'm sure most on this thread have witnessed)? Sure things may start out well and appear to be controllable and in check. But that sure doesn't seem to hold true for very long. At least not according to most of the posts on this thread and dozens of others on the same topic. And both here and on other forums. Point is we're not talking about a benign substance here.

Anyway and as noted. Not here to rip anybody a new one nor make enemies. Just figured I'd butt in (again) (which usually has disastrous results of course).

And for better or for worse: it's really not like this stuff requires advertising or promotion let's face it. The numbers and statistics tell me it's doing just fine without the need for pundits.

 

[Olivia Nicole]

...I'm relatively intelligent and somewhat broadminded (on topics such as this anyway).

Then I suggest you really listen to what an expert, a PhD in the field has to say about the matter.

A Columbia professor argues against our drug puritanism

Exploring the promise — and blind spots — of Carl Hart’s “Drug Use for Grown-Ups.”

www.vox.com

I'll be 27 later this month; I respect older Bluelighters but the old way of thinking about this subject needs to change in light of the truth. The fact is most people who try heroin do not become addicted. The 20%-30% who do become addicted generally have concurrent illnesses such as untreated physical pain, anxiety, depression, schizophrenia etc. Or maybe they've lost their job or have very poor economic prospects.

Trying heroin to experience what it's like is for most people no riskier than trying LSD or magic mushrooms. To many that sounds like 'harm reduction' heresy but frankly it's time to end the drug use puritanism, scare mongering and negative propaganda about heroin.

 

[Pickledlemons]

Lots of drug propaganda does exist but that doesnt mean that you give them information that could be construed as encouraging drug use. If that kind of shit gets out into the media it could portray bluelight in a very negative light.

You're right a lot of thinking does need to change when it comes to treating drug addiction and understanding how and why people get where they get. But again people who do not have any drug dependance, who are experiencing pressure in their life should be guided away from such addicting drugs! That should go without saying, you are ridiculious!

 

[dalpat077]

Then I suggest you really listen to what an expert, a PhD in the field has to say about the matter.

I'm not going to argue with you. I stand by what I've posted. It is what it is.

Said experts, and with their fan base and credentials, could do far more good in providing harm reduction advice and warning of the potential dangers. Advocating responsible (sorry: "adult") use of a drug like Heroin isn't harm reduction advice.

I'll never have the statistics. But I'd be prepared to wager that this type of information will result in more individuals, that may not have even thought about giving it a bash, at very least trying it and simply because some qualified expert made it out to be rosy if managed responsibly (managed like an adult). Bear in mind that good old Prof. Hart there seems to have no problem in advocating the responsible use of a lot of other drugs too. Just saying.

And you're right. Some may try it and think "this ain't for me" and walk away. I'm probably one of those because it's the polar opposite of Cocaine. But what about those that are not so fortunate so as to give it a bash and then find themselves down the river without a paddle. Is he going to pick up the tab for their rehab. and well being? I wonder. Anybody know if he's donating any of the proceeds from said book to worthy causes e.g. addiction or rehab. centers? I don't know i.e. it's a legit question.

Come to think of it: wouldn't it be interesting to see what would happen with all of this enlightenment and progressive thinking going around, shut down the DEA, and open the floodgates. Let's see how responsible everyone would be and where many many more would end up.

I think people are making the assumption that with more awareness and less fear mongering then that will equate to better facilities and care for addicts. And I personally think that's flawed.

But. You're entitled to your opinion. And if nothing else: I'll give you ten our of ten for your tenacity and commitment to the cause. I'll never be convinced (and believe me I've had other discussions about this, put a lot of thought and introspection into it, and sorry, but not for me).