Punk

I've been into underground music for 30 years, but I'm curious about something...

Would the word "punk" include all the "rebellious" genres that were birthed from it? Including everything from Glam Rock to Goth Rock to Goregrind & Hardcore Punk? Even industrial & noise artists have "punk" influence.

So when does a band/artist STOP being "punk"? Is it an attitude or is it a sound? Like I can identify Crust Punk & Grindcore by ear & know that those are "punk-adjacent" genres... But some of the "punk" music from the late 60's and 70's can sound almost like just basic, generic "rock". When I hear industrial & noise bands, I don't automatically think "punk", even though there's no rules saying punk CAN'T be electronic as well (Look at Alan Vega & Suicide).

It's strange to me that something like..Iggy Pop or David Bowie is "punk", just as much as some real anarchist crust-punk bands out there or some incredibly extreme fast, angry music.

I grew up listening to "Punk" as a kid (aka Crust punk, Grindcore, Hardcore Punk, Noisecore). I always assumed "Punk" was music with simplistic chords/riffs, D-beats, blast beats, shorts songs & political lyrics. But that's not always the case! As electronic acts (Suicide) and slow brooding 'metal-like' bands (Amebix) are both "punk"?

So if it's the attitude, then that means goth rock, avant garde, goregrind, grindcore, dark electronic & industrial, even some black metal counts as "punk".

But if it's the "sound", then what "sound" is it? Because as I've explained, "punk" bands can sound wildly different from each other.

Another example, the band Impetigo's first demo. Entirely "punk" music, from the simple riffs & chords to the blast beats, short songs, etc.. Pretty much hardcore punk mixed with grindcore. Only thing different is instead of "political themes", they're switched out for horror & gore themes. So obviously this would make them "goregrind", but is that not still a type of "punk" music? Which just brings me right back to my original question, is it the "sound" or the "attitude" or "something else" that makes something punk? Or is punk just a watered down term now for all alternative/rebellious/angsty/avant garde music?
 
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Punk, imho, is less theorising, more punk (is a feeling) (if it's "watered down" - it's false)...🐥👍

 
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Asclepius said:
Punk, imho, is less theorising, more punk (is a feeling)
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Can you describe that feeling?

I guess I'm asking for semantics here. Like, would goregrind count as "punk" on this thread? It stems from punk. Uses simple chords & riffs, has d-beats, blast beats, grooves, etc.. Has a DIY attitude & aesthetic, but nobody really thinks of "goregrind" when they hear the word "punk". Goregrind also has metal roots too. Would something like Throbbing Gristle count as "punk"?

Is a noise/performance-art project, "punk"? I would say it is. IMO, punk would include everything from Oi!, Pop Punk, Crust Punk, D-Beat, Hardcore, Goregrind, Grindcore, Noisecore, Experimental Music, Goth, Industrial, some Black Metal, etc..

Or is this thread strictly for music with the "punk" sound (i.e. - simple chords, d-beats, yelled/shouting vox, the usual 'punk' sound) like hardcore punk, crust punk, pop punk, etc...?

I would say Bathory's self-titled album is "punk", since it clearly uses D-beats & was inspired by the hardcore punk sound. Even though it's also technically "black metal".
 
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Asclepius said:
It's not semantics - that's lyrics & symbols. Are you a musician?
How would you define it?
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I am. I dunno if I'd say I'm a "musician", cause it's not like I'm super great at it. But I've been making music for 25+ years, various genres. A lot of it is experimental & lands more in the category of "sound sculpting", creating machines that make sounds and areas of musique concrete. But I've made some grindcore & some dark wave & electro/synth music too.

I'm not sure how I'd define it honestly, which is why I was curious. I'd say anyone who has the DIY, "I don't give a fuck" attitude can be "punk".
But in terms of genres, I think many generes fall into the "punk" category, even if people don't generally associate that music with "punk".

Generally when I think of "punk", stuff like Crust Punk, Hardcore Punk, Powerviolence & Grindcore come to mind, though I'm aware that you don't have to sound like those genres to be labeled "punk" either.

So technically, I could post some kind of industrial or noise here & it still counts as "punk".
 
Personally, would strain to give a definition but yep; D-beat, angst -expresion based on fighting societal bullshit that's oppressive but expressing same, rather than expression of being victimised by it.
 
just was listening to crimpshrine... i don't always post what i'm playing on here, but this is the first time i listened to this. heard crimpshrine for the first time in 2004. wasn't sure about a lot of it, still not but what's here is great...





i just listened to the album in blue for the first time... i like when they sound like the beginning of the first stong in red. they do it a few times on the blue one. LOL...
 
foodcrisis said:
just was listening to crimpshrine... i don't always post what i'm playing on here, but this is the first time i listened to this. heard crimpshrine for the first time in 2004. wasn't sure about a lot of it, still not but what's here is great...





i just listened to the album in blue for the first time... i like when they sound like the beginning of the first stong in red. they do it a few times on the blue one. LOL...
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this shit... i didn't want to say despite the fact i think it's super cool and historic that crimpshrine is hard to listen to, it is.... i talk on BL music about music that "washes over me", and that is not crimpshrine with it's heavy palm muted guitar style... i pointed out the part at the beginning of the song with the red cover cause that part goes so hard in a good way though... crimpshrine despite being cool as hell isn't a therapuetic listen.

i'll describe it this way. here's a band from a different part of the 90's that had no relation to crimpshrine... i've talked about how some emo punk that i thought was great might not be that listenable that i loved... this shit holds up as super therapeutic wash over me listen... this is probaby some of the mot chilled out listenable music in any genre of music. just the pitch of this is crazy, but the beat is super for washinng over specific people:



totally making sense of me being hyper senssetive i talk about that a lot. i want to be clear... i wanted to post about crimprshrine cause i was praying hard with it though.
 
Sham 69 [1978] - Tell Us The Truth



Sham-69-GettyImages-85242556.jpg
 
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