So Who Likes Benzos? Ver III: Blackouts and Amnesia

[opi8]

I acquired a few pills of nitrazepam/mogadon today to help with my next attempt at getting off heroin. If I take 50mg of diazepam to be in a good place, how much nitrazepam should I need?

 

[drug_mentor]

^ The chart I linked in my last post lists nitrazepam is twice the potency of diazepam, so 2.5mg nitraz=5mg diaz. Basically you are going to need around 25mg to be an equivalent benzo dose. If you are lucky incomplete cross tolerance will cause you to need a little bit less, possibly closer to 20mg or so. Do remember that its half-life is 15-48 hours compared to 30-200 hours for diazepam. Keeping this in mind you are probably going to need more doses of nitrazepam than you would diazepam unless you are only using it for sleep.

Good luck getting off of heroin bro! It can't be easy but dig deep and I am sure you got it in you.

 

[Mr Blonde]

^ Around 25mg according to the chart D_M posted. But your mileage may vary, of course.

So Im curious about the amount of GFJ that people usually consume in order to have a potentiating effect. In other words how much is needed in order for it to do its enzyme inhibiting thing.... a glass? A litre?

I just had about 500ml with 3mg xanax so I guess Ill see what if anything that does to my 3mg dose. Im guessing its probably pretty subtle though right?

The inhibition takes a while to kick in. I use benzos and codeine very regularly and so consume grapefruit juice all the time. From my experience, 24 hours from consumption of GFJ reaches about peak inhibition.

Or you could go get some fluconazole from the pharmacy for your 'thrush infection' and get the same effect. WAY more expensive though.

I guess it is tough though as its a very subjective thing for one, and on top of that the effects can be quite different. If Im just chilling on xanax I get a real drunky type of shit going on with heavy limbs, impaired motor control and I require more effort in order to talk like a normal human.

Whereas valium I can just sit there and probably still hold a conversation pretty easily. Ill be pretty heavy in the body but it wont be as dominating as the xanax feeling. Thats not to say xanax is more euphoric (for me). Its all set and setting. I have a pretty high codeine tolerance and 10-20mg valium combined with around 200-300mg codeine can be great. But that same combo with say 2mg xanax isnt as euphoric.

I agree with this completely. Alprazolam and codeine... meh. Diazepam, temazepam or one of those other benzodiazepines with decent muscle relaxing properties are fantastic with any opioid.

Ive got a pretty big tolerance to benzo's, usually have 40-50mg valium or 6mg xanax with grapefruit juice though if im anxious and need to just calm down 30mg Diazepam w/o GJ will still calm me down nicely. Yesterday my mate gave me a 2mg Rivotril(Clonazepam) and I felt really relaxed all day, was just smoking pot and chilling as we'd been out on speed and drinking the night before at a club grand opening. I know it wasnt placebo, I just couldnt believe how nice it felt. Maybe my tolerance has dropped a lot more than I realize? That would be awesome!

I never found clonazepam that great for anxiety, relaxation or recreation. Great for when I had to taper down from high dose alprazolam though.

 

[The-Future]

Finaly found an awesome GP and got scripted 5mg diaz on a monthly basis, 10mg and some red wine, fuck yes.

 

[Mr Blonde]

^ Jealous of that tolerance.

 

[pinkanga]

You guys think a doctor would be open to prescribing me temaz if I show him/her the old box with the prescription info sticker still clearly visible on it? (as proof that my dex psych has prescribed me temaz in the past). Basically I only see my dex psych every couple months (sometimes 3 months) and would like another script. Last time I went to my GP she was pretty anti prescribing me anything that my psych didnt know about, so when I asked her for diaz she said to speak to him.

 

[drug_mentor]

^ You are headed towards murky waters my friend, I don't like how much advice has been asked about getting prescriptions for potentially recreational drugs in recent months (I am by no means referring to from you specifically) regardless of the fact that many probably have a legitimate need for these substances this site is here to minimise the harm of drug use and not to help people acquire drugs of abuse, whether they have a need for them or not. If your psychiatrist has prescribed you temazepam for insomnia in the past and you can provide contact details then regardless of your ability to provide a box you should have some reasonable grounds to request them from your GP, if you are on daily stimulants then you might consider your potential to come to rely on hypotics to sleep and/or whether discontinuing daily stimulant use is perhaps a better solution to healthy sleep than taking up regular benzodiazepine use.

 

[pinkanga]

Yeh I hear you. Its just the somewhat large time frames between visits with my psych because he is away in other areas a lot of the time.

Anyway it was a redundant question anyway. Ill see how I go and see what happens. My need for is basically just as a sleep aid and as the box they come in are only 25 they dont tend to last too long.

I guess its pointless post really. one GP is different to the next and some are anit while some are pro benzos. I just figured with my regular psych being away for a couple months and myself being able to provide proof of prior prescription maybe that could work in my favour as far as not being treated like a doctor-shopper junkie looking for a fix.

 

[opi8]

That's great news The-Future, glad you worked something out. Please take heed of the warnings though, you don't want to find yourself with a large tolerance and/or a benzo addiction.

^ The chart I linked in my last post lists nitrazepam is twice the potency of diazepam, so 2.5mg nitraz=5mg diaz. Basically you are going to need around 25mg to be an equivalent benzo dose. If you are lucky incomplete cross tolerance will cause you to need a little bit less, possibly closer to 20mg or so. Do remember that its half-life is 15-48 hours compared to 30-200 hours for diazepam. Keeping this in mind you are probably going to need more doses of nitrazepam than you would diazepam unless you are only using it for sleep.

Thanks d_m, I was under the impression it was a lot stronger than that. Sleep is the primary reason I'll be taking it, I'm also hoping it will help to relieve some of the other withdrawal symptoms.

Good luck getting off of heroin bro! It can't be easy but dig deep and I am sure you got it in you.

Thanks for the words of encouragement mate, this is certainly one of the hardest things I've tried to do.

 

[Mr Blonde]

Just want to re-enforce what D_M said; lets keep discussion away from questions about getting scripts and that sort of thing.

 

[pinkanga]

Just want to re-enforce what D_M said; lets keep discussion away from questions about getting scripts and that sort of thing.

Yeah I hear you about that. Just wanted to raise the issue and get a sense of whether it will beneficial (ie. taking evidence of prior scripts into a new doctor to get another script due to lengthy periods of time between seeing my regular doc).

Just curious is there a database type thing with benzos where if a doctor writes a script for you he has to consult an online database with your prescription history? Or is it just a matter or the doc writing a script and ripping it off his pad. I know with certain meds (ie. dex) its hella controlled and my psych has to call some number and verify it. Is it the same situation with benzos?

Ill drop it after this, promise

 

[Divine Moments]

^ nah temaz (and others) are scripted off-the-cuff all the time, they aren't controlled like opiates and stimulants are

 

[Mr Blonde]

Yeah I hear you about that. Just wanted to raise the issue and get a sense of whether it will beneficial (ie. taking evidence of prior scripts into a new doctor to get another script due to lengthy periods of time between seeing my regular doc).

Just curious is there a database type thing with benzos where if a doctor writes a script for you he has to consult an online database with your prescription history? Or is it just a matter or the doc writing a script and ripping it off his pad. I know with certain meds (ie. dex) its hella controlled and my psych has to call some number and verify it. Is it the same situation with benzos?

Ill drop it after this, promise

It depends on which state you are in. I know that here in QLD, benzodiazepines are not actively monitored by the Drugs of Dependence Unit (DDU), whereas in NSW and VIC they are.

If you are genuinely prescribed benzodiazepines and have a legitimate history of them, then that will help a new doctor in making their decision. If your record is clean, you could encourage him to call the state DDU or Medicare if your prescriptions were covered under the PBS. Both of those routes will probably provide more credibility then just a packet with a label on it.

 

[pinkanga]

OK thanks for the info Mr Blonde.

 

[Mr Blonde]

^ No problems.

The QLD DDU is fairly useless but the other states seem to have it all working better. Also Tasmania is running a trial of a real-time prescription monitoring service in order to catch doctor shoppers.

 

[What was it?]

if you still notice the 'harshness' of the xanax then you're doing well not getting a tolerance after prolonged use, once you get a large tolerance it almost feels as subtle as clonazepam.
even through mild use of once every few weeks to once a month before being properly prescribed i lost the strong feeling of the fast onset.
i have no idea how some people don't get tolerance to some effects that stays with them even after breaks lol.

my partner had to take it at less than .5mg over time to build up a tolerance to be able to use it during the day without strong hypnotic effects even off .5mg, even now after 2 years of around once a day 3-5 days a week for 2 years 1mg will knock her out at night for sleep!

It's weird how some people don't get a tolerance. As for me, evn after irregular 12 month use i have a massive toelrance to benzos and opiates. I got quite high off 30mgs Oxy in Jan, then tried a one-off 1mg tab of bupe snorted.....ever since that day my tolerance is 50mgs Oxy. Or looking at benzos, had a 120mg Oxazepam per night bender for 10days and now none of the benzos seems to knock me out anymore. 10mgs of temazepam back then feels like 50mgs now. I use benzos once a week on average....

 

[the_ketaman]

Yeah ive always had the doctor call up when ive been prescribed valium or temaz, im in NSW.

Just had 30mg Diazepam with 2 grapefruits juiced, juiced 1 1/2 drank, waited 30-45 minutes and downed the 6 5mg pills with the last halfs juice and after 30-45mins im sure its potentiated quite a bit, not subtle at all, at least 50% stronger IMO. Im feeling very nice atm, just had 4mg suboxone sublingual(8mg usual maintenence dose but trying to wean as I realize 8mg is way too much) and I feel much clearer headed but still very nice. Smoking cones of 2 great different types of pot what more could I ask for right now?(cept a fat shot of heroin but im on sub so im trying to be a good boy ) Still need a bit of fun here and there though

My nephews 1 yr old B-Day today(im gay and Ill never know if ill have kids till I have em so my nieces n nephews I love like my own) so im waiting to give him his present im so excited :D I love being relaxed and happy for once. Peace to all you BL troopers

 

[Mr Blonde]

So Im curious about the amount of GFJ that people usually consume in order to have a potentiating effect. In other words how much is needed in order for it to do its enzyme inhibiting thing.... a glass? A litre?

I have a paper lying around in my stock pile of research that shows that it takes around 24 hours for peak inhibition to occur after grapefruit consumption. I usually drink a whole bottle starting the day before the codeine or opioid I plan on taking. I might even start on a second bottle before the actual dose. I also use Mylanta just before I dose DXM 45 minutes before the codeine dose.

 

[pinkanga]

So basically my method of drinking half a bottle of that white grape fruit juice you get at IGA/Coles with my actual codeine/benzo intake is essentially pointless? Thats crazy. Fuck me have I been buying a lot of GFJ lately and consuming it in the fashion I just described. Goes well with PST to fix the nasty flavour too (although I dont mind the taste of just the seeds all that much).

On an unrelated matter, Ive come to the conclusion that using alpraz to potentiate opiates is essentially a waste. Obviously if your xanax resource is plentiful then no reason not to have a couple, but I just dont find the experience anywhere near as euphoric as potentiating with diaz. Extremely hard to resist the urge to have a couple once youve had youre opiates though... especially if your supply at the time is plentiful. But it depletes fast.

I find alpraz is much more effective (and useful) just used on its own.

 

[Mr Blonde]

^ I definitely agree. Alprazolam and codeine not so great. I'm going to try out etizolam with it though, I've heard good things.

As for the GFJ; it should definitely be drunk at least a few hours beforehand. I tend to drink it for the day leading up, getting a good amount the night before and drinking lots during the day I'm planning to dose. I take my codeine seriously though.