Legitimacy of not-believing.

[Quantum Perception]

Pretty much^

Gnostic with a capital G is referring to the religions that the early Christians used to practice.
Small g means the philosophy that gnosis(knowledge) is the path to salvation/enlightenment.

What knowledge? Anything that dismisses the ego's importance and puts one in awe and reverence toward reality. Most religions and spiritual practices advise programs of behavior which allows for these qualities to be cultivated within the person.

 

[yagecero]

-Believe nothing, explore/consider everything

-Learn from everyone, follow no one

Believing can lead to fanaticism if left unchecked. But at the same time I don't see how we can live our lives without believing in something for the time being, even if it is nothing or something negative.

I think that the two statements that I've quoted above summarise what I'm getting at (although I wouldn't say believe nothing). And as I said to MDAO, this is a challenging stance to adhere to - the not believing is indeed difficult, and requires vigilance. There is a definite natural tendency to want to believe. I've spent a lot of time with the indigenous of the Americas - the Maya, the Cofán and the Uitoto predominantly, and I've found that I can immerse myself within their "systems" easily, as long as I remain completely open and don't make comparisons to "our" ways. If we don't strive to be "right", anyone's experience can become our own - for the time that we are together at least.

What knowledge? Anything that dismisses the ego's importance and puts one in awe and reverence toward reality.

This is the shamanic view of the Cofán - reality is an incredibly beautiful mystery that can be connected to, but not understood in the sense that we "understand" in the west. We are at the whim of a multitude of powerful forces, forces of which we can become aware (and thus expand our awareness), but only if we can let go of our self importance and give ourselves entirely to the mystery.

For me, a deconstruction of language (and thus thought) allows for a smoother transition into the sublime.

 

[echo off]

i don't think you should believe in nothing. but the only thing i truly believe in is my right to exist, and have my own private beliefs. everything should be proven, but that proof will always have a level of uncertainty that should be disclosed. all arguments on beliefs should end with "well, you have a right to believe that, and while i disagree, we must both accept the limitations of our knowledge."

but if you don't believe in anything, you can't say that. because you don't accept anything as potential proof. i used to often wonder if when i used to hate beliefs, it came from a fear of what i really believed. then i found my own spirituality, something akin to pantheism, and now i'm much more accepting of peoples beliefs, yet much more hate-filled by religion. you can believe what you want, and i'll accept it and my own inability to disprove it. but if it is any threat to me, as many seem to want to be... well i believe in my right to exist, and have my own beliefs. and i will defend that right.

 

[yagecero]

i don't think you should believe in nothing. but the only thing i truly believe in is my right to exist, and have my own private beliefs. everything should be proven, but that proof will always have a level of uncertainty that should be disclosed. all arguments on beliefs should end with "well, you have a right to believe that, and while i disagree, we must both accept the limitations of our knowledge."

but if you don't believe in anything, you can't say that. because you don't accept anything as potential proof. i used to often wonder if when i used to hate beliefs, it came from a fear of what i really believed. then i found my own spirituality, something akin to pantheism, and now i'm much more accepting of peoples beliefs, yet much more hate-filled by religion. you can believe what you want, and i'll accept it and my own inability to disprove it. but if it is any threat to me, as many seem to want to be... well i believe in my right to exist, and have my own beliefs. and i will defend that right.

This is a beautiful response, thank you. There are many things that you wrote that ring "true" with me, and for that reason I really think that we're on the same page, but a page that is being read at different times perhaps. It's not that I believe in nothing, it's that I don't believe anything - it's really not the same thing. This is not to say that any experience is invalid, and in being valid all experience is equally worthy. It's not the being I'm opposed to, it's the believing that what one thinks and feels is some how more valid than the experience of another.

I like the idea that language creates enormous grey areas in "understanding" - it gives us an experience that is as multilayered as there are people on the planet: something so beautifully complex that allows for the possibility of many seemingly incongruous views being "right" at the same time.