anyone?
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AADD Moderators: andyturbo
Synthetic Cannabinoids Thread
- Thread starter speedygonzales
- Start date
anyone?
drug_FUCKED
Bluelighter
So whats banned in WA? 16 synthetics cannabanoids but what ones?
Whats a Class C1 drug?
i thought they used numbers? S2, S3, S4, S8, S9
Whats a Class C1 drug?
i thought they used numbers? S2, S3, S4, S8, S9
puckboy
Greenlighter
- Joined
- Mar 4, 2006
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Why not just end all this bullshit and legalise real cannabis.
The fact people are praising synthetic blends for getting them off real weed is ridiculous logic considering the synthetic stuff has much harsher effects and I have no doubt in my mind is much more unhealthy. When I tried Kronic it jacked my heart up quite a bit so it doesn't surprise me people are being hospitalised and now a bloke has died. You're better off smoking real weed!!
Lets all step into reality and end this madness.
The fact people are praising synthetic blends for getting them off real weed is ridiculous logic considering the synthetic stuff has much harsher effects and I have no doubt in my mind is much more unhealthy. When I tried Kronic it jacked my heart up quite a bit so it doesn't surprise me people are being hospitalised and now a bloke has died. You're better off smoking real weed!!
Lets all step into reality and end this madness.
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Jakeperson
Bluelighter
Some people do prefer them over real cannabis^^
I wouldn't even compare them to weed, they are different drugs with different effects. It's like comparing MDMA to Meth.
I wouldn't even compare them to weed, they are different drugs with different effects. It's like comparing MDMA to Meth.
pisspotnrock
Bluelighter
^^ I wouldn't say its anything like comparin MDMA to meth amp.......
puckboy
Greenlighter
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I'm honestly amazed if you prefer smoking synthetic stuff over good quality herb. Those people would be a tiny minority I'd have thought. That's besides the point I was making anyway. It's not about what is better, it's about the healthier and IMO better option being freely available so people who want a cannabis-like high but can't get it don't smoke dodgy research chemicals.
While they are not exactly the same, there are alot of similarities between the two types. Of course you would compare it to weed, it's synthetic weed! These chemicals have been made with the goal of mimicking the effects of cannabis. It is nothing like comparing MDMA and meth.
Jakeperson
Bluelighter
3,4-Methylenedioxymethamphetamine.
Very similar drugs, pretty different effetcs. That's my point, comparing them is just wrong. They are their on set of drugs and should be treated as such, which means, yes you should use caution because they are fairly new.
I know around 4 people that prefer Kronic to weed, for whatever reason. I prefer weed personally.
They are synthetic cannibinoids, but that doesn't make a difference. A chemical is still a chemical whether it is natural or not.
The tiniest change in a molecule can change the effects drastically. Look at the difference between regular Tetrahydrocannibinol and the synthetic cannibinoids molecules (pics wont work for me) and you'll see they don't even look a like, so why treat it the same? I doubt many people here treat MDMA like meth just because it is an amphetamine.
I like them because, a) They are relatively new, B) they are unresearched, c) they don't have a full tolerance crossover with weed (they give me an actual high if I take a day off and then dose but tolerance develops quicker and d) because they get me away from the mundane-ness of smoking weed day in and day out for years.
Also on the new "Black Label" mate had a panic attack and was passing out from half a cone (no tolerance) and I was sufficiently high as fuck so it's pretty strong, it also lasts a long time. I dont feel the need to redose once the initial high wears off as much as I have found with other blends or weed.
Very similar drugs, pretty different effetcs. That's my point, comparing them is just wrong. They are their on set of drugs and should be treated as such, which means, yes you should use caution because they are fairly new.
I know around 4 people that prefer Kronic to weed, for whatever reason. I prefer weed personally.
They are synthetic cannibinoids, but that doesn't make a difference. A chemical is still a chemical whether it is natural or not.
The tiniest change in a molecule can change the effects drastically. Look at the difference between regular Tetrahydrocannibinol and the synthetic cannibinoids molecules (pics wont work for me) and you'll see they don't even look a like, so why treat it the same? I doubt many people here treat MDMA like meth just because it is an amphetamine.
I like them because, a) They are relatively new, B) they are unresearched, c) they don't have a full tolerance crossover with weed (they give me an actual high if I take a day off and then dose but tolerance develops quicker and d) because they get me away from the mundane-ness of smoking weed day in and day out for years.
Also on the new "Black Label" mate had a panic attack and was passing out from half a cone (no tolerance) and I was sufficiently high as fuck so it's pretty strong, it also lasts a long time. I dont feel the need to redose once the initial high wears off as much as I have found with other blends or weed.
puckboy
Greenlighter
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^
I'm comparing them because synthetic weed and real weed are generally smoked in a similar setting for a similar purpose because of the similarities in their effects. The chemical name and molecular structure are irrelavent to what I'm talking about. They are vastly closer in effects compared to meth and MDMA.
I don't think it's "wrong" to compare them at all. Drugs are compared, many things in life are compared. People compare different psychedelics, different opiates, different benzos etc, that's really getting away from my point though - it's all personal preference anyway. All I'm trying to say is the constant updating of legislation with the release of new synthetic cannabinoids being one step ahead seems an awful waste of time to me, when you could just let people smoke cannabis which would end the market for synthetic blends, or atleast shrink it into insignificance. And we wouldn't being hearing about it in the media constantly. Doing that would be harm reduction, which is the goal ain't it?
I'm comparing them because synthetic weed and real weed are generally smoked in a similar setting for a similar purpose because of the similarities in their effects. The chemical name and molecular structure are irrelavent to what I'm talking about. They are vastly closer in effects compared to meth and MDMA.
I don't think it's "wrong" to compare them at all. Drugs are compared, many things in life are compared. People compare different psychedelics, different opiates, different benzos etc, that's really getting away from my point though - it's all personal preference anyway. All I'm trying to say is the constant updating of legislation with the release of new synthetic cannabinoids being one step ahead seems an awful waste of time to me, when you could just let people smoke cannabis which would end the market for synthetic blends, or atleast shrink it into insignificance. And we wouldn't being hearing about it in the media constantly. Doing that would be harm reduction, which is the goal ain't it?
Jakeperson
Bluelighter
Not for the government^^. The goal is no drugs anywhere, ever.
Sorry I'm not the best with my wording any more. But I don't mean comparing them is entirely wrong, just that they shouldn't be lumped into the same group so much as they have vastly different effects too. I'm not sure which one because I havent done research on the pure powders but at least one of the synthetic cannibinoids is almost a straight stimulant, very unlike weed. Some of these synthetics may display lots of effects similar to weed, some may display just one thing similar and some probably will be very, very different. There's thousands and thousands of different effects possible from these chemicals.
This is why they should never have been sold as a legal weed alternative. People should not be smoking these and expecting a weed high, they shouldn't really be using instead of weed either, or using it in a similar way like you suggested because it never was and never will be weed. These are really for people looking for a new and different experience and generally people who aren't stupid enough to chow down 4 cones quickly and end up in hospital.
Sorry I'm not the best with my wording any more. But I don't mean comparing them is entirely wrong, just that they shouldn't be lumped into the same group so much as they have vastly different effects too. I'm not sure which one because I havent done research on the pure powders but at least one of the synthetic cannibinoids is almost a straight stimulant, very unlike weed. Some of these synthetics may display lots of effects similar to weed, some may display just one thing similar and some probably will be very, very different. There's thousands and thousands of different effects possible from these chemicals.
This is why they should never have been sold as a legal weed alternative. People should not be smoking these and expecting a weed high, they shouldn't really be using instead of weed either, or using it in a similar way like you suggested because it never was and never will be weed. These are really for people looking for a new and different experience and generally people who aren't stupid enough to chow down 4 cones quickly and end up in hospital.
drug_FUCKED
Bluelighter
Yeah they should legalize real weed which is what i prefer; but i do like been able to smoke something that wont show up on drug tests which must be the real reason why these are banned.
Your heart rate went up? how much? i have a blood pressure heart rate machine and have been smoking heaps and it doesn't raise my heart rate fuck all. I do have a massive tolerance to most things but still... I smoked about a gram at once.
I do like exploring the different types of being stoned and have enjoyed it for about 3-4 years.
Cant believe how quickly they banned this stuff in WA. What about studies to prove its harmful!
fuck that colin barnet i would like to piss on his face after i have stomped on it. fucking increasing cannabis laws 10x times how out of touch is this dude who couldn't cut it as a teacher. Fucking tool his is. If this was america it would never happen when did aussies get some gutless and lazy to let this happen. I bet it cause if you stood up and said legalise it, you would find the police raiding your house rather quick.
Your heart rate went up? how much? i have a blood pressure heart rate machine and have been smoking heaps and it doesn't raise my heart rate fuck all. I do have a massive tolerance to most things but still... I smoked about a gram at once.
I do like exploring the different types of being stoned and have enjoyed it for about 3-4 years.
Cant believe how quickly they banned this stuff in WA. What about studies to prove its harmful!
fuck that colin barnet i would like to piss on his face after i have stomped on it. fucking increasing cannabis laws 10x times how out of touch is this dude who couldn't cut it as a teacher. Fucking tool his is. If this was america it would never happen when did aussies get some gutless and lazy to let this happen. I bet it cause if you stood up and said legalise it, you would find the police raiding your house rather quick.
Christheman2006
Greenlighter
So it is actually banned in WA state? I'm in Whatcom County and its still everywhere.
Christheman2006
Greenlighter
Just picked some Kryptonite Tigers Blood 10x haha this shit rocks %)
poledriver
Bluelighter
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- 11,543
drug_FUCKED
Bluelighter
The problem i see with kronic and alike is that is not prepared by professionals but money hungry people who dont care about disclosing whats in there product, dosing it correctly or the ill health effects.
I cant believe the government cracked down harder and faster than it did with 4MMC.
I believe that they are not dosing it right and some bits of leaf have more chemicals in them than others with shit consistency. This is one of the 100s of reasons why the government should legal cannabis. Our government should wake up to the facts like stoned people dont cause trouble unlike drunks, meth addicts and heroin addicts. Stoned people dont cause fight like some drunk dickheads do every weekend and they dont do crime to support the habit. If your local chemist distributed drugs the government could keep track of who is using what, purity, stop cloggin up our court system with petty crime, cops would have more time to go after serious crimes like rape & murder, this could eliminate toxic impurities, we wouldn't have to make do with these shitty substitutes drugs and it would nearly completely get rid of organized crime.
Cannabis is only a gate-way drug because you have to be a criminal drug dealer to get it.
Wake up australia! we are behind the rest of the free world for fucks sake. I mean the rest of the world are going the complete opposite way with cannabis laws. This bullshit about it causing schizophrenia is crap it might bring it forward a few years but who cares if you got schizo are 19 instead of 21. The fucking bullshit lies i hear on the news and read in the paper makes me so mad and even more mad that its all one sided bullshit lies!
I cant believe the government cracked down harder and faster than it did with 4MMC.
I believe that they are not dosing it right and some bits of leaf have more chemicals in them than others with shit consistency. This is one of the 100s of reasons why the government should legal cannabis. Our government should wake up to the facts like stoned people dont cause trouble unlike drunks, meth addicts and heroin addicts. Stoned people dont cause fight like some drunk dickheads do every weekend and they dont do crime to support the habit. If your local chemist distributed drugs the government could keep track of who is using what, purity, stop cloggin up our court system with petty crime, cops would have more time to go after serious crimes like rape & murder, this could eliminate toxic impurities, we wouldn't have to make do with these shitty substitutes drugs and it would nearly completely get rid of organized crime.
Cannabis is only a gate-way drug because you have to be a criminal drug dealer to get it.
Wake up australia! we are behind the rest of the free world for fucks sake. I mean the rest of the world are going the complete opposite way with cannabis laws. This bullshit about it causing schizophrenia is crap it might bring it forward a few years but who cares if you got schizo are 19 instead of 21. The fucking bullshit lies i hear on the news and read in the paper makes me so mad and even more mad that its all one sided bullshit lies!
tyrael
Bluelighter
I watched a documentary on weed a while back (for the life of me I can't remember the name of it! >_<) and at one point the female host went to a University (I assume?) where they were conducting tests and administrating extracted THC and (some, not quite sure which specifically) cannabinoids....the general consensus was that one of them was preferred (greatly!) over the other.
I realise there's not too much information here, but hopefully enough to jog someone else's memory of the specific documentary! If I can find it I'll post a link of where to download it.
Whilst I agree with most of what you said, I think you're slightly wrong about this. There has been many studies to prove a link between smoking marijuana schizophrenia/mental illness. To what extent is a result of a pre-disposition vs. a purely "marijuana-induced illness", I really can't say. I haven't read enough to feel comfortable about forming an opinion either way. Either way you could argue - "Would the PT have shown signed of mental illness regardless of the drug use?".![:\](https://bluelight.org/xf/BL_Images/Orig_Emoji/wrygrin.gif "wry grin :\")
A very interesting topic of discussion?! 
Edit: on more thought I think it may have been the "Should I Smoke Dope?" documentary.
I realise there's not too much information here, but hopefully enough to jog someone else's memory of the specific documentary! If I can find it I'll post a link of where to download it.
Whilst I agree with most of what you said, I think you're slightly wrong about this. There has been many studies to prove a link between smoking marijuana schizophrenia/mental illness. To what extent is a result of a pre-disposition vs. a purely "marijuana-induced illness", I really can't say. I haven't read enough to feel comfortable about forming an opinion either way. Either way you could argue - "Would the PT have shown signed of mental illness regardless of the drug use?".
A very interesting topic of discussion?! Edit: on more thought I think it may have been the "Should I Smoke Dope?" documentary.
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puckboy
Greenlighter
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I was informed by a professor of psychology who works very high up in the National Drug Research Institute (NDRI) that the worry about cannabis causing schizophrenia is largely over exaggerated. He told me the risk of schizophrenia is 7 in 1000 in the general population and amongst cannabis users it rises to 14 in 1000. I don't have a source online, it's just what a very trustworthy person told me.
Schizophrenia shouldn't even enter the argument. Why do people always discuss the extreme, very rare risks rather than the very common, more mild risks? They should educate kids in school that smoking alot of weed can make you lazy and cause you to not get much done. Not 'hey, never smoke weed, you'll get schizophrenia and go mad'. As the overwhelming majority that try it will quickly realise that it's bullshit and will be much more inclined to try harder drugs and ignore further warnings.
Society seems to focus on the unlikely worst case scenarios and base their decisions on that rather than what happens 99% of the time. The must be safe - never take risks mentality. Which IMO is driven by a population wanting to create a world for their kids where there are no risks or evils that are going to do harm to them and fuck everyone else and their freedoms. Unfortunately this paranoid way of thinking doesn't fit reality and you end up with retarded laws like cannabis being illegal. Life is full of risks, to never take a risk is to not live! This is why proper balanced and truthful eduction about drugs is so important so people can make informed decisions. This is not achieved by creating an atmosphere of fear, paranoia and persecution as is done currently.
By the way I don't even smoke weed anymore, so this isn't a stoner just wanting his pot to be legal.
edit: sorry that was all a bit off-topic
Schizophrenia shouldn't even enter the argument. Why do people always discuss the extreme, very rare risks rather than the very common, more mild risks? They should educate kids in school that smoking alot of weed can make you lazy and cause you to not get much done. Not 'hey, never smoke weed, you'll get schizophrenia and go mad'. As the overwhelming majority that try it will quickly realise that it's bullshit and will be much more inclined to try harder drugs and ignore further warnings.
Society seems to focus on the unlikely worst case scenarios and base their decisions on that rather than what happens 99% of the time. The must be safe - never take risks mentality. Which IMO is driven by a population wanting to create a world for their kids where there are no risks or evils that are going to do harm to them and fuck everyone else and their freedoms. Unfortunately this paranoid way of thinking doesn't fit reality and you end up with retarded laws like cannabis being illegal. Life is full of risks, to never take a risk is to not live! This is why proper balanced and truthful eduction about drugs is so important so people can make informed decisions. This is not achieved by creating an atmosphere of fear, paranoia and persecution as is done currently.
By the way I don't even smoke weed anymore, so this isn't a stoner just wanting his pot to be legal.
edit: sorry that was all a bit off-topic
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drug_mentor
Bluelight Crew
Tyrael, the documentary that you refer to I believe is 'Should I Smoke Dope?' which is a BBC production and has some journalist chick who tried choof ages ago pull a sort of super size me experiment with cannabis (not 'Super High Me' BTW) IIRC the pure IV administered THC caused psychotic and paranoid effects where an even balance and epuiotent dose of THC and CND (another main recreational component of recreational cannabis) provided a significantly less paranoid and more enjoyable experience.
I have to say Jake man that I am surprised to see ya stickin up for this garbage shit over the real green. I hate the natural versus synthetic argument but this is tried and true versus very recent and unknown shit, cannabisis by no means perfect but cannabis is fucking cannabis and there isn't no replacement thats going to come along and be a superior alternative to the general cannabis smoker than cannabis itself. Whilst a select few (crazy in my damn view, just being honest
) may prefer this synthetic shit there is probably a reason none of my dealers are stocking it despite its availability... aside from that you really got no clue what effects it causes in the long term whilst cannabis is documented as fairly benign. I tend to think most of those who ever enjoyed cannabis and no longer do due to developing paranoia anxiety from it may not experience these effects from synthetics right away, but you better believe theres a fucking good chance they will catch up with you just like they did whilst smoking real choof.
I have to say Jake man that I am surprised to see ya stickin up for this garbage shit over the real green. I hate the natural versus synthetic argument but this is tried and true versus very recent and unknown shit, cannabisis by no means perfect but cannabis is fucking cannabis and there isn't no replacement thats going to come along and be a superior alternative to the general cannabis smoker than cannabis itself. Whilst a select few (crazy in my damn view, just being honest
) may prefer this synthetic shit there is probably a reason none of my dealers are stocking it despite its availability... aside from that you really got no clue what effects it causes in the long term whilst cannabis is documented as fairly benign. I tend to think most of those who ever enjoyed cannabis and no longer do due to developing paranoia anxiety from it may not experience these effects from synthetics right away, but you better believe theres a fucking good chance they will catch up with you just like they did whilst smoking real choof.Christheman2006
Greenlighter
yah man i checked out that link there said nothing about wa state dood
Jakeperson
Bluelighter
Exactly my point. Any one using synthetics as a replacement is a fool, different drugs.
I still prefer weed but these have their own positives and negatives, I'm sticking up for them for this reason. They just aren't cricket.. more like baseball.
drug_mentor
Bluelight Crew
^ Down the line synthetic cannabanoids may prove to have some benefits but at this stage when it is an unregulated market with many products, none of which disclose their (often multiple) active ingredients and probably do not have a particularly scientific/consistent method for ensuring even potency between batches, and also the long term health problems of which have not been investigated.
I understand some using these drugs may be doing so for other reasons than to get effects exactly like cannabis but I would say the majority are shooting for atleast a similar experience, for me personally at this point there is no real justification (other than perhaps drug tests) for pursuing this type of high from substances other than tried and true green. The bastards haven't even made it cheaper! The truth of the matter as I see it is that it is very unlikely these substances would ever of had any appeal whatsoever if cannabis had been legal all this time, perhaps a few medical scientists might of tweaked a few to try and enhance certain medicinal properties of cannabis but it would honestly be pretty surprising to me if any synthetic cannabanoid had close to the range of therapeutic effects that cannabis does.
I understand some using these drugs may be doing so for other reasons than to get effects exactly like cannabis but I would say the majority are shooting for atleast a similar experience, for me personally at this point there is no real justification (other than perhaps drug tests) for pursuing this type of high from substances other than tried and true green. The bastards haven't even made it cheaper! The truth of the matter as I see it is that it is very unlikely these substances would ever of had any appeal whatsoever if cannabis had been legal all this time, perhaps a few medical scientists might of tweaked a few to try and enhance certain medicinal properties of cannabis but it would honestly be pretty surprising to me if any synthetic cannabanoid had close to the range of therapeutic effects that cannabis does.