• Philosophy and Spirituality
    Welcome Guest
    Posting Rules Bluelight Rules
    Threads of Note Socialize
  • P&S Moderators: JackARoe | Cheshire_Kat

Plato's cave analogy: Ordinary consciousness vs. Gnosis

chief ten beers

chief ten beers

Bluelighter
Joined
Jul 20, 2006
Messages
173
I've been exploring the ancient Gnostics for some time now and the more I explore the more I believe that they were really on to something. I think this short clip perfectly illustrates the condition of mankind in it's unenlightened state of ordinary consciousness where most people spend their entire lives. I do believe for a lucky or unlucky few(for those who prefer sleep), there is something which could be called Gnosis, where one can wake up from their conditioned perceptions and have an experience which changes and raises their consciousness forever.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=69F7GhASOdM
 
I presume you obtain it but taking a shit load of trips!

Platos cave analogy has also interested me, but my main thought about it has always been, how do you know that even when you break free from one state of thought to a higher one, that there isn't a even higher one above that?
 
what is there to achieve in "elevated" consciousness if not isolation from others? i like plato's analogy, and think it is pretty apt. However the idea to elevate oneself from this needs to strike a balance between how to go about it and why with maintaining a functional place as a member of society.

move into a hole in the ground, eat nothing but dirt, spend your entire magically extended life to find out the secrets to the meaning of reality and existence before you pass on, but even through all this what have you actually achieved?
 
ignorance is the jailor. curosity and methodological analysis of reality cut the shackles.
 
Sophia


" Bury me in a nameless grave
I came from God the World to save
I brought them wisdom from above: Worship and Liberty and Love.
They slew me for I did disparage - Therefore religion, Law and Marriage.
So be my grave without a name
That Earth may swallow up my shame... "
^
a poem by Aliester Crowely, i suppose about Christ and the Trinity.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GIRW2P01XUw
The Godness Sophia Principle and other Gnostics interesting myths
 
Last edited:
Thank you PiP I shall peruse it - the link - at my leisure which is now but may end at any moment.

I'm not sure what it's about if there was more context I might hazard a guess but there could be more than one meaning to it - perhaps even deliberately but overall I'd guesss you're right - about the poem that is.
 
I think most of us who have used psychedelics have had slices of Gnosis or great insight, but as it were, once we came down the from the experience all the psychic machinery which keeps us asleep or unenlightened were back at the oars rowing us back into obliviousness. The question is how does one keep the channel where the light comes in open? How to build upon those insights to make it permanent, causing a change of orientation and a change of consciousness. The only modern approach that I've found that address this change of being without too much religious baggage would be the teachings of Gurdjieff, who I think clothed many of the ideas of ancient Gnosticsm in a more modern garment.
 
^hehe, i used that avatar for a quite a while:-)thats supposed to be the "face" of Sophia in the Sun...BTW - for whom ever might be familiar with the pic, but not that tid-bit.


" The question is how does one keep the channel where the light comes in open? "

find your own way to shatter your Ego, and Archo-Types...

i never had heard of any of this until it happened to me personally, nor would i of actually believed it. yes i would of thought it was amazing, and felt inspired, or found a creative "channel" with the myth.

again i knew nothing of Sophia or Isis or Mary, OR the connection...until i saw it.


how did i see it with out psychoactive chemicals?
um, well honestly indescribable or memorable pain, isolation, heart break, hunger, sickness - its the only constant guarantee in my life now. stir these together, and maybe.


ive done LSD, mushies, DMT etc, countless times, but nothing ever so profound happened as it did, and does sober. okay, i use medical marijuana, and try and take as few opioids as possible, but besides that, its the inert stuff.


does this grandiose maybe? sure it does.
convenient and explainable 'an escape' with the circumstances? sure it does.
do i believe it is either of these factors? nope i tried to rationalize and, that was not good...

will i ever deny this? no, like i couldnt deny water being wet, no matter how thirsty i am.

________________________________________
"Is that a double bluff maestro ?"
only one way to find out
 
Last edited:
at least read Plato's cave till the end...

The last (and most important) step of the allegory is when the released prisoner goes back into the cave.

This is one of the pitfalls which is common to many psychedelic users. Exceptional psychedelic (mystical) states are useless and meaningless without integrating them in ordinary life.
 
Last edited:
Psyduck said:
at least read Plato's cave till the end...

The last (and most important) step of the allegory is when the released prisoner goes back into the cave.

This is one of the pitfalls which is common to many psychedelic users. Exceptional psychedelic (mystical) states are useless and meaningless without integrating them in ordinary life.
Click to expand...

Well said. This reminds me of Joseph Campbell's description of the Hero's Journey, in which the final step is always the hero's return to his home town, to the familiar. (Think Bilbo Baggins sitting back in Hobbiton, looking wistfully out the window as he pens There and Back Again). This final step is crucial for the hero fully realizing just how changed he is due to his encounter with the extraordinary. Although he's back among familiar things and people, the ways he has grown and become wiser come into sharp contrast. Plus, in this way, he is able to be Prometheus, and share some of the light he has received to those fellow people who will not have the opportunity to have a similar experience.

The people I've known who've best benefited from psychedelics, or really any form of mysticism, have been those who've been able to, as Psyduck says, reintegrate comfortably back into "square" society because of, not in spite of, the wisdom they've gleaned from their glimpses beyond. These people never forgot that the drugs were a means, not an end, and that the end was greater connectedness, durable inner peace, and durable peace with the world at large.

The psychonauts I've met who've benefited least, by contrast, are ones who seek to permanently flee all aspects of mainstream society, and sequester themselves with a select elite who pursue ever more and heavier drug experiences for their own sake. I think this is often done with good intentions. The first of these is seeking out the comforting company of those who can relate to one's own experiences, while avoiding the company of those who, one assumes, just can't relate. The second good intention is seeking to replicate and continue the immense and sudden inpourings of wisdom received during memorable (usually early) drug experiences. But the latter is fallacious for assuming that the learning curve for psychedelically-gained wisdom stays constantly as steep (that is, there's always tons more wisdom to be gained), and problem with the former is that the truly enlightened person no longer relies on the comfort of like-minded company for existential validation. ("The foxes have their holes... but the Son of Man has nowhere to lay his head.")
 
^This talk about the value of conviction and community when using psychedelics reminds me of an essay by Huston Smith called "Psychedelic theophanies and the religious life" where he affirms that the reason many psychedelic cults and groups don't last long is because they are so counter (to much rebel) to society that they cannot merge with it and hopefully change it somewhat (not enough revolution). "The psychedelic movement lacks a blueprint for relating itself to society."

That's why I like what Bruce Damer said that its not about what your aginst (destruction), its about what you are for (creating).
 
MyDoorsAreOpen said:
The people I've known who've best benefited from psychedelics, or really any form of mysticism, have been those who've been able to, as Psyduck says, reintegrate comfortably back into "square" society because of, not in spite of, the wisdom they've gleaned from their glimpses beyond. These people never forgot that the drugs were a means, not an end, and that the end was greater connectedness, durable inner peace, and durable peace with the world at large.

The psychonauts I've met who've benefited least, by contrast, are ones who seek to permanently flee all aspects of mainstream society, and sequester themselves with a select elite who pursue ever more and heavier drug experiences for their own sake. I think this is often done with good intentions. The first of these is seeking out the comforting company of those who can relate to one's own experiences, while avoiding the company of those who, one assumes, just can't relate. The second good intention is seeking to replicate and continue the immense and sudden inpourings of wisdom received during memorable (usually early) drug experiences. But the latter is fallacious for assuming that the learning curve for psychedelically-gained wisdom stays constantly as steep (that is, there's always tons more wisdom to be gained), and problem with the former is that the truly enlightened person no longer relies on the comfort of like-minded company for existential validation. ("The foxes have their holes... but the Son of Man has nowhere to lay his head.")
Click to expand...


I think there's much merit in what you say in this post
 
I heard this analogy for the first time in my life and it is reaaaalllllyy GOOD! I wouldn't say you need a shitload. I would say with good preparation it also works for the first time.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top