Ecstasy/Pipe Induced Psychosis

[thizzin' since 98]

First Bad Comedown should get promoted on the site, or paid for the information he gives.

More then any doctor...

Talk about a wealth of knowledge.

I pm'd you.

Question: I am addicted to smoking cigarettes, sadly I know, and I was wondering, does this have any kind of dramatic impact on my mental health? (Anxiety, Depression, Etc) If I were to quit, would I really feel that much of a difference.

And yes, I know they are bad for general health, but mental health is the question.

 

[severely etarded]

Question: I am addicted to smoking cigarettes, sadly I know, and I was wondering, does this have any kind of dramatic impact on my mental health? (Anxiety, Depression, Etc) If I were to quit, would I really feel that much of a difference.

And yes, I know they are bad for general health, but mental health is the question.

Symptoms vary from person to person, but typically nicotine withdrawls cause irratability.

I gave you some advice post #8 btw. Good stuff. make sure to read it

 

[thizzin' since 98]

Symptoms vary from person to person, but typically nicotine withdrawls cause irratability.

I gave you some advice post #8 btw. Good stuff. make sure to read it

Thank you for the link. Ill be picking up some of that, and try and buy some greens.

I have been out to swim, out to warped tour, 10 hours of standing outside under the blazing sun, to the beach for a few hours, but even after swimming, standing, and walking for hours, I still honestly didn't feel too much better at all.

 

[Gerald92]

look into breathing techniques, they can help prevent the feelings of panic you get, at least temporarily.

 

[severely etarded]

Thank you for the link. Ill be picking up some of that, and try and buy some greens.

I have been out to swim, out to warped tour, 10 hours of standing outside under the blazing sun, to the beach for a few hours, but even after swimming, standing, and walking for hours, I still honestly didn't feel too much better at all.

wait till tomorrow... Usually the results of exercise are yielded after a good night's rest

and it won't be an overnight thing. Just make it a habit to get outside, not necessarily IN the sun. Outside in the shade is great too (I think most of the serotonin stimulation has to do with the optic nerves getting sunlight, so even under a carport or a tent outside or even in an non/lightly-tinted car, gets you sunlight..

exercise.. no need for overkill. Imo if you can get some good cardio in 30 mins a day you'll be good. But you need to be persistent. It looks like you may have gotten yourself in a physical 'rut' so-to-speak. You will have to work hard to break the cycle of depression ---> unhealthy lifestyle ---> depression ---> unhealthy lifestyle and so forth. It's going to take consistent motivating yourself. But you need to give yourself 6 weeks and see where you're at. You should feel at least a little better after 6 weeks. if not you may want to see a psychiatrist to see about medicating your anxiety / panic attacks..

I have had anxiety my whole life, and what's funny is doctors / teachers have always thought I have ADD - I was on adderall for 7 years. this is not true. If it is, then why does my ADD go away when I take benzos? I don't worry about stupid shit, and my mind is calm and collected and doesn't get distracted. fuckin quacks just want to get kids hyped up on amphetamines fuckin US FDA prescription politics bullshit.

 

[Deleted member 137730]

wait till tomorrow... Usually the results of exercise are yielded after a good night's rest

and it won't be an overnight thing. Just make it a habit to get outside, not necessarily IN the sun. Outside in the shade is great too (I think most of the serotonin stimulation has to do with the optic nerves getting sunlight, so even under a carport or a tent outside or even in an non/lightly-tinted car, gets you sunlight..

exercise.. no need for overkill. Imo if you can get some good cardio in 30 mins a day you'll be good. But you need to be persistent. It looks like you may have gotten yourself in a physical 'rut' so-to-speak. You will have to work hard to break the cycle of depression ---> unhealthy lifestyle ---> depression ---> unhealthy lifestyle and so forth. It's going to take consistent motivating yourself. But you need to give yourself 6 weeks and see where you're at. You should feel at least a little better after 6 weeks. if not you may want to see a psychiatrist to see about medicating your anxiety / panic attacks..

I have had anxiety my whole life, and what's funny is doctors / teachers have always thought I have ADD - I was on adderall for 7 years. this is not true. If it is, then why does my ADD go away when I take benzos? I don't worry about stupid shit, and my mind is calm and collected and doesn't get distracted. fuckin quacks just want to get kids hyped up on amphetamines fuckin US FDA prescription politics bullshit.

i agree on the add thing, giving kids amps and shit is terrible bullshit. Its funny that the drugs that increase productivity are smiled upon while ones that lower it are illegal and rarely used.

I would recommend curcumin as it increases bdnf and serotonin. Also fish oil and N-acetyl-cyteine are good neuroprotectors.

Other than that exercise, sunlight, nutrition, sleep, and socialize.

thats all you can do. I would not waste my time with ssris and psych meds .

 

[First Bad Comedown]

Thanks for the promotion, Thizzin. :D

I may be one of the most well-written members on the recovery process, but I am not the only one to offer good advice. Sometimes it is just my approach...

For example, Bben has more experience with the process of recovery than you might suspect. Most people will make near-complete recoveries within 1-2 years. He is somewhere around the 4 year mark and has stated that most of his progress has been made in the last year alone. Stories like his should bring you some inspiration as you wonder the dark path of recovery.

Listen to his advice on curcumin. It comes from turmeric, the primary spice found in curry. It is related to ginger. Curcumin is the active compound in turmeric and you can find extracts of turmeric that contain 95% curcuminoids. Add some black pepper to it and you will drastically increase the absorption and bio-availability. Just don't over-do it...all good things are in moderation.

Curcumin is a powerful anti-inflammatory in the intestines. It is a mild SSRI, by the way. It has also been shown to increase BDNF in the brain. Some researchers believe that the wide-spread use of turmeric in Indian and Chinese diets could explain why they have both lower rates of cancer AND Alzheimer's disease! Indeed, turmeric ranks as one of THE most important herbs in the world. On many occasions it has calmed a very upset stomach for me. I take it daily with black pepper and fish oil.

Severely Etarded made a very good point about exercise.
The real benefits, both mental and physical, do not show up right away.
Normally the first night of exercise just takes the edge off. By the third, fourth, and fifth day in a row...my GOD, I feel awesome.

The same progression occurs with sunlight. It impacts the SCN, or suprachiasmatic nuclei. This ancient region of the brain feeds information about alertness to the Raphe Nuclei. That, my friend, is where all of you serotonin nerves begin in the brain. More sunlight on a regular basis = more serotonin production. We evolved to experience daylight daily.

We also evolved to get physical exercise daily.
Even before this happened to me, I was working out all the time. The benefits of exercise continue to accrue over time. It builds upon itself. In fact, after a week of hard lifting my muscles are normally quite sore. After just one or two days of resting, my body has a very strange reaction. As my muscles repair themselves, they release a massive wave of dopamine and adrenaline. It makes me feel more alive than words can describe. Not only does it lift my mood, but I find that my physical strength is abnormally increased just after this healing period. I can easily knock out 300 pushups in about 15 minutes!

However, if I allow the resting period to go on for more than a couple of days, I can feel the loss of serotonin activity. My head-pressure returns and my mood sinks. Occasionally I have to remind myself to count the days since my last work-out. If it has been three or more, I know what I have to do.

When this whole problem started for me, I was completely incapable of eating solid food, much less exercising. It took a month of suffering before I discovered Piracetam. It brought me back from the brink of wasting away. It allowed my intestines to function at a much improved level. However, exercise was STILL an impossible task at first. I really felt like I couldn't do it. My previous strength and motivation seemed a distant memory...my arms didn't even feel like they were mine. Some of this was depersonalization, which is the sense that I was not inside my own body...not in control of its physical movements. I was a distant operator, at best.

But I just made it happen anyways.
I forced myself, sometimes through tears, to make those bands on my bowflex bend. I took my time - there was no rushing this. It didn't matter how long it took me, or how little I was capable of. The point was that I was trying.
I lifted very little compared to my previous state, and each movement was slow and painful. My head often hurt quite a bit, and I fought the sensation of losing consciousness. Again, slow progress was all I was hoping for.

But by the end of the very first week I knew I had found the answer to my prayers! Suddenly I was empowered to influence my own suffering. It was a major awakening for me. I realized that researching and fighting mentally was NOT the only approach. Physical exercise on a regular basis became 1000 times more effective than ANY mental or social activity!
No comparison, not even close.

So I hope that this message is clear to you and any others that find this post.
There is a real reason why exercise is prescribed to ALL kinds of brain-injury patients. Seriously, look into it. Whether it is a stroke or a gunshot wound - they ALWAYS start aggressive physical therapy once the patient is stable.

THIS is where your neurologist failed miserably. If he didn't strongly endorse, no...shove this down your throat, then he didn't do the ONE thing that actually helps. This same failure is seen time and time again. I'm with Bben, giving amps to kids is astounding and horrific. If you ever wanted to find a sign of a failing civilization, that would be one. Kids should be prescribed regular exercise! Not goddamn medication. Give them video games and fast food....and we wonder what went wrong! Just medicate them! Doctors must know everything!

Prime example - the two kids who shot up Columbine High School were on SSRIs. SSRIs, like MDMA, target the PFC. Damage to this area of the brain steals from us what makes us human. That is what so many other MDMA users don't understand - it is NOT like other forms of drug recovery. Malfunction of the PFC results in a type of suffering that should NOT be possible. Only those who have experienced it have any idea. Visit some of the message boards for people recovering from SSRI use/abuse. For some it is much longer, pale, and emotionless existence than what you are likely to experience.

You have to forgive the rest of them, Thizzin.
That means your family...friends...even doctors.
Especially doctors - you want to hold them responsible for a level of understanding that is FAR beyond their capabilities. Only researchers specializing in this area can offer real answers.

And don't worry about 'clogging up' the threads here. Or 'annoying' people.
The truth is that our presence serves as a clear warning to others - MDMA is NOT the safe drug that they really want it to be. Often, the consequences are minimal and easily tolerated. But when it goes bad, it is a darker hell than they could ever imagine.

You should come here for help, when you need it.
Those who are annoyed don't have to read. Those who aren't, just might want to help you. And one day someone else will go through a similar break-down and may stumble across BL just as you and I did. The stories we leave behind may have an impact that we never imagined.

I have often thought that BL needs a Dark Side forum specifically for MDMA. This would go a long way towards cleaning up the ED forum and giving a home to those in desperate need of help. The Dark Side is too clogged with people suffering from heroin/benzo abuse to be the right place. That is why most MDMA sufferers come here...

By the way, cigarettes are probably NOT doing direct damage to your recovery process. I suspect that they are harming your appetite, which is a bad thing for you right now. You need to eat as healthy as you can. Fish, fish, and more fish.
Did I say fish?

Quitting smoking would still make you feel a LOT better, but withdrawal would be difficult if you have been a LONG time smoker. When I quit years ago, I found that the days BEFORE I quit were the hardest. It is the FEAR of withdrawal that hurts the most. After I put them down, only a few days passed before I knew I was going to be FINE. So I highly recommend you give it up. Not only is it unhelpful to your physical health, but it is a mental/emotional crutch. Any crutch that is called upon 20 times per day, every day...is simply a BAD lifestyle choice.

Also, cigarette smoking wastes stem cells!
That BDNF we keep talking about will have more impact in the absence of cigs.
Honestly, if you start working out every day and eating a high protein/veggie diet...smoke all the goddamn cigs you want to. Let's worry about the more important issues first. Chances are, you just won't smoke as much when your suffering tapers off.

Get the blood pumping and start treating your intestines like they are an extension of the brain itself. Because they are. They contain 95% of all serotonin and serotonin receptors. They are driving the entire recovery process, IMO.

Good luck, bro.

 

[Folley]

I may be one of the most well-written members on the recovery process

That is an understatement, you have taught me a lot about the brain and ecstasy in the past few days, probably weeks of research all packed into a few posts

 

[chitown rollin]

Good post FBC. I have to say though, I think you are making out the MDMA recovery process to be much worse than other drugs, and it really isn't. I've seen people have a much worse time with heroin, alcohol, and methadone/bupenorphine recovery... by a long shot.

I'm currently in recovery from benzos and am finally seeing clearly after so many months. The benzo recovery from heavy users is said to be around a year long recovery with little exception. I still do not sleep at night and have a really rough time managing my emotions. Taking away a substance like that which you take every day to feel normal is much harsher to try to live with as opposed to a drug you can't take every single day.

The point I am trying to make is NOT to downplay the negative effects MDMA has on a person, but to make the OP understand that MDMA users always get better. Some people don't get that lucky with other drugs... look at methamphetamine users.

You are going to get better Thizzin', there is NO doubt. Everybody does. Some it takes longer than others, but everyone eventually recovers. You have not taken enough pills, at 40, to take 2 years to recover... you just haven't bro. It has been 6 months right? That is normal and you should really be feeling fine soon.

Take our advice and incorporate exercise and a healthy diet into your daily routine. Above all, be positive. It seems you are focusing on all the negative effects right now and have convinced yourself that you will never be the same... am I wrong? I know many people that have been there, and I myself may have been there if I hadn't seen all of my friends that were older than me who used just as much or more than me and were living normal lives again. Thinking thoughts like this will only make matters worse, even if they aren't that bad. I had a bump on my head and though I went to the doctor and he said it was fine, I was convinced for months it was cancerous! I think you get what I am saying, but just don't think yourself to death. All the best buddy, and PM me please if you would like.

 

[First Bad Comedown]

Chitown -

I like your approach in disagreeing with me.
Indeed, many people that suffer from MDMA do not experience the same level of suffering as others. But in animal research, it is often noted that there is a range of toxicity. Some animals, even at lower doses, experience a greater than average loss of axons/receptor sites. It would seem that some people are destined to suffer more than others from this drug. This may be due to a number of complicated factors. One of the more severe possibilities is hyponatremia, which is an imbalance of water/electrolytes in the bloodstream. It can even happen without water consumption. This can lead to cerebral edema, or swelling around the brain. When it isn't lethal, it can cause neurological damage on its own. Just one example...

I am not trying to give the OP more to worry/obsess about, but I have to oppose your statement that he will get better 'very soon'. The recovery process you have witnessed in your friends does not necessarily reflect the process seen in other users.

I would also argue that your extensive use of MDMA suggests that you started off with a more resilient serotonin network. Perhaps this is why you continually down-play the negative effects. I highly doubt that you would feel this way had you walked in my shoes. There is a reason I so strongly caution others against heavy or repeated use.

This process of recovery is not simply a process of suffering, this is a 're-wiring' of the brain itself. I can actually feel subtle cognitive effects accruing over time. As my anxiety slowly tapers, my personality seems to change ever so slightly at the same time. I have often wondered who I will turn out to be when this is all over. But at least I know that the suffering will one day end. I expect that I will never again experience anxiety the way that I used to...

However, I also believe that long-term benzo abuse can result in a catastrophic outcome that easily rivals MDMA. Again, massive respect to you for surviving it. I have seen stories in which people claim to feel nothing. For many years. Talk about losing touch with anxiety...

Truly long-term use of many drugs can result in a permanent degradation that includes only a partial recovery of function after a VERY long time period. MDMA appears to be capable of producing similar results with relatively little abuse. So arguing that other drugs are worse to recover from doesn't quite fit. I don't follow you there. The one that is most capable of achieving this outcome quickly is the most dangerous. I wasn't addicted to a 'dangerous' drug - I thought I was 'safe'. MDMA's reputation for 'safety' is inappropriate and quite dangerous. It is also opposed to a wealth of scientific data that clearly shows repeated use will cause long-term degradation of serotonin neurons.

I must also point out a fallacy in your argument.
You bring up methamphetamine users to illustrate its danger and the relative 'safety' of MDMA. Everyone know that MDMA stands for 3,4-Methylenedioxymethamphetamine, right?

Of course it primarily targets a different neurotransmitter system, but there are indeed similarities to the effects. Plenty of MDMA users claim that certain pills are 'meth-based' or 'speedy'. While pure MDMA should feel like a cleaner roll than adulterated ones, it is STILL an amphetamine. So by pointing at meth users you have also implicated MDMA.

By the way, meth users tend to recover as well, although long-term exposure is often a factor. Any drug taken to the extent seen in meth users will cause extreme outcomes. You would think that meth users experience the 'worst' recovery patterns, but it turns out that cocaine users are often much worse off. I would have expected that the stimulant derived from a naturally occurring plant would be 'safer' than a non-organic chemical, but this logic doesn't appear to hold up. Long-term cocaine users have been seen to suffer from anhedonia and memory problems WELL past 5 years abstinence. As a trend, most meth users are functioning quite well by the 2 year mark. I have seen several studies showing the persistence of cognitive deficits seen in cocaine users. I imagine that this includes 'crack' cocaine users, as it is still a type of cocaine. Perhaps it is the rock that does it, not the powder...

It is not easy to compare the effects of different drugs and the havoc they wreak upon people's lives. In terms of really long-term users of other drugs, you are probably right. In terms of acute reactions from short-term use, I'm not so sure. The best conclusion would be that SOME drugs are relatively safe with careful, moderate dosing. Others can go horribly wrong with just ONE dose too many...

Enough debate, already.
Even if you are wrong about the OP's level of suffering, you are right about his eventual recovery. Even in the extreme cases that go beyond the 2 year mark, it appears that the brain continues to adapt. This process likely continues for the rest of your life, Thizzin. That would be well past the point of 'clinical' recovery.

It can be damned difficult to focus on anything other than what is going on in your brain. Obsessing has its place - I believe the brain is trying to do something productive. However, sometimes it is wise to intervene and break the cycle. That is one of the awesome roles of exercise - it seems to stop the negative thinking in its fucking tracks. Other than exercise, I recommend trying to watch lots of comedy. Even when you think you will start bawling or tearing your face off, just force yourself to endure some good stand-up. Make an effort to smile, if only occasionally. I strongly believe in the healing power of laughter.

 

[somedud]

PTSD from a bad experience, simple as that. Your over thinking it, I WAS there. Trust me.

Read my damn threads I was worse than you man, I dropped out a school suffered a mTBI and lost my girlfriend.

Imagine MY anxiety/panic attacks. I was a hot shot, lost my friends, lost my school, and thought I lost my life, forever.

Chill man, I'll tell you a cure ite?

Firstly, stop thinking about, I'm 150% sure right now that you analyze every action, thought and move you make and compare it to your old self, or second guess, and be like, did I thunk like that?

Your stressing yourself out, your brain out of homeostasis, and chitowns right. Your NOT in psychosis, your doc wouldn't put you on SSRIs, possible mania mixed with a psychosis is a very dangerous thing. They'd start you out on 50-100 my seroquel and work you up over 300+ mg where serotogenic activity starts to happen, to boost your mood, with the stabilizing effect of an atypical antipsychotic.

Anyways moving on, your brain is out of homeostasis from a bad trip, it's brainwavw frequencys are all out of whack, gaurenteed. Once out of homeostasis, if it can't handle a threat, bam! It puts up it's sheiks, and that what your experiencing, the horrfic rhetoric persuasions that is derealization.

Remember now, you only claim to notice a difference after a pipe bomb that was tested on pillreports, and MANY users as 100% pipes.

Trust me bro, read people that are fucked from LSD, same symptoms as you.. They don't have brain damage do they? No. Neither do you, your stressing yourself out too much after a bad experience/trauma.

It takes a while for the brain to comprehend that shyt man.

Like I said I was there, guess what, the ONLY thing that's really helped me since trying EVERY herb on the fucking planet.

My docs medicine, with the exception of benzos, I only fill my scripts to sell them so my SSRIs are paid for.

Let your brain relaxxxxx and process what you put yourself through.

My suggestion; and what helped me the most:

Lexapro 10 mg, titrate up if needed under the supervision of your family doc. It's the most potent SSRI available, and will make you relax enough to see how badly your over reacting. Since starting it, dare I say it, I feel like the old me almost. I'm looking back realizing how much I blew this out of proportion.

Now that the SSRIs are in place, be SURE to give them 6-8 weeks, it took me 6 to notice the beginning of my mood inprovements, and start to chill me out.

Now that your calm, you want to know the true magical cure?

WEED, yup, that's it, weed. Since I started blazing again, it's gave me some REAL insight that I can't even begin to explain, on how FUCKED up my thought processes are/where.

Also it's shown to help those/prevent/cure PTSD, which is what you hav a mild version of, wiki the symptoms.

Gaurenteed, you've relived that night and tore yourself up over what you Sid over and over and over again am I right?

Mmmhmmm, I thought I COMPLETELY destroyed my serotogenic system, bc I couldn't sleep, and lived in one giant panic attack.

Then I rolled again, and wadda ya kno, I could sleep fine, I could go out around people without thinking I was going crazy..

Then I started lexapro after telling myself I wouldn't FOReVER thinking/being told it's the wrong thing to do. Shortly after, I started smoking weed and fixed my thought pattern, I no longer live in the past OR the crazy fucked up analytical spin that I su myself into, I'm happy to say, that I'm ME again.

Not fully, not the same (as experiences change everyone and mold you as your grow with wisdom [hopefully]), but I'm closer to being me than I EVER thought possible, swear to god. I believe, given another 6 months of going to school, I'll be 95% ish, but NOT the same, I've learned SO much from this, as will you. Once you experience happiness again, trust me, itll be it's OWN ecstasy. Legit, I feel an almost MDMA come up today when I was shopping for some threads I was THAT happy, and plus it's my 5 th week mark on lexapro and I think it's kicking in..

Trust me, the longer you let yourself suffer without doing taking control of your mind/actions, the bigger imprint this fucked up experience is going to mould into the billion mike long spider web of neural connections you've got flowing through every single fucking cell in your brain, trust me, you don't want that.

Try it, I dare you to come back and say it never worked.

Of course, I left out the few most IMPORTANT steps.

Diet and exercise. I eat an impervious diet, follow by a pretentious exercise schedule that would blow the wind out of 95% of people reading this lungs.

And of course, if your going to take ANY supplement, let I'd be curcumin, BCM 95 version at that, it has the best bioavailablity. I also take ginko, ashwagandha, multivitamins, Shakeology (amazing!!!!), and many other essential vitamins and b complexes daily.

Short and simple, curcumin + exercise = 200-500% more BDNF in your blood stream, means more stem cells, and also it's one of the ONLY growth factors that repair the DIRECT damage that MDMA causes. (appx %'s, but close I'd imagine) and of course, SSRIs potently increase bdnf, but that's your call.

So bow that you've wasted the past twenty mintues of my life giving you the tools to craft yourself a new life, what are you gunna do about it, continue making threads on the Internet looking for answers me, bben, FBC, catinthehat have spent MONTHs looking for, that have no answer btw, OR are you going to learn from your ancestors (so to speak), skip the months I've wasted along with many others chasing a dog that's not going to bark, or are you gunna get the fuck up, stop bitching/dwelling about your life in self pity, and go for a run, lift some weights and eat yourself the colours of the vegetable rainbow?

The choose is up to you my friend, I gave you all I could..

Cheers man, and good luck.

 

[somedud]

^^

PS - forgive my spelling mistakes, I was typing quickly on my iPhone, damn thing has a mind of it's own..

Guess what the words are/spell em correctly, that'll exercise your brain :D

 

[severely etarded]

rollin - How is the recovery process starting? I say that because you are only just beginning the process

 

[Jackie Chan]

What somedud's saying in his post is really good advice. I know it's been said in other posts, but a lot of exercise and really good diet goes a long way. The stuff about not thinking negatively about what you've possibly done to yourself is so important but I know it's hard to control the negative things your feeling sometimes.

 

[thizzin' since 98]

Well, I'm prescribed anti psychotics right now, but I am not taking them...that must say something about me, possibly having a mild psychosis?

And weed is definitely not the answer. I absolutely strive to feel sober at all times. Because at this point, it feels like I am still on drugs, or under the influence when I am really not.

Whenever I smoke weed, I have the worst depersonalization/anxiety ever. Parts of my body will go numb, my head feels like it exploding with electric shocks, my face will feel ice cold, I "forget to breathe" almost the entire time I am high, I can't communicate with others, and I leave my body, and look at myself in third person it seems, with this strange inter-monologue, literally praying to god to make my high go away.

Haha, some of the scariest experiences of my life, besides this past one with mdma.

My brain just can't tolerate like anyone else.

I find myself having flash backs of everyone time I have been high, been wasted, or rolling balls, and it all just makes me sick to my stomach. I just want to be 100% sober, feel 100% how a normal human being should, without drugs every coming into play.

Thank you to EVERYONE for all the advice and treasury of knowledge. I'm taking every paragraph and every recommendation into account and I will keep you all updated with my progress.

 

[Jackie Chan]

^
Weed did the exact same thing to me, it's so funny cause exactly how you described it for me too. I found after enough time goes by you can start smoking weed again and its enjoyable. But yeah, the way I was feeling around new years I totally thought I'd never smoke weed again and 6 months have gone by now and I'm practically smoking daily. Not saying it's a good thing to be doing everyday but take comfort in knowing your ability to enjoy things like smoking weed comes back with time.

 

[thizzin' since 98]

maybe I can pop a xanax and try a hit or two? I know this completely goes against my previous post, but hey, maybe it could help relieve stress.

My parents just got divorced, and my mom is leaving from LAX this morning to Alaska, I guess to get re-married and live. This has all happened in the past few months. Last night was my last dinner with her.

My entire family has fallen apart, my mom is leaving me and my dad struggling here with absolutely no money, no income, my dad has been sick for many many years, struggling with extreme depressions, anxiety, and back problems, along with prescription addictions problems, and here I am, 18 years old, on my own, with this huge MDMA problem on top of it all.

I need help. The funny thing is, as I am reading all these suggestions for all these supplements, I am thinking to myself, all this sounds amazing, but really I can't even afford them.

What prescriptions am I going to have to sell, who's middle man do I have to be for drug sales next?

My lifestyle is just so sad.

I just don't know, my brain is so scrambled and I am so indecisive and confused.

I just don't want to smoke weed and then trigger something else in my brain or become schizo or pro-long my recovery process.

If my brain, when it was healthy would freak the fuck out, what could possibly happen now?

If I take care of the anxiety before it happens, should I be in the clear?

I'm re-reading this as I type it, and I probably sound like a stupid kid, but you guys must understand i'm so confused.

 

[Jackie Chan]

Try to stay away from weed for a while, there’ll still be a feeling of uneasiness when you’re high even with the benzos.

You’re situation is obviously different from mine, but for me the first 3 months were the most hard, then 3-6 months I felt a lot of things come back that I was afraid I lost.

In the beginning it’s really hard to get any kind of enjoyment out of anything. All the activities I used to enjoy I just lost interest in. That numb feeling, I could barely feel my body, everything felt awful and uncomfortable. The way my body felt and the mental state I was in was scary, mainly because it was so hard to get the thought out off my head that it’s going to be permanent. I had tightness around my jaw and I’d be grinding a lot throughout the day for weeks after I last took mdma.

Stay away from weed even with benzos, cause in the beginning weed just makes that scary numb feeling worse.

I tried shrooms around the time I last took mdma and it was such an awful experience. I feel like that then the serotonin system in my brain was so messed up that being high on certain drugs wasn’t enjoyable, but horrifying. I know the boredom and depression is going to make you want to get high but honestly do your best to fight any urge to get high.

A lot of days I’d just sit in front of my computer doing nothing. I also felt really badly about everything in my life, it’s so hard to control all the negative thoughts going through your head. Just being that messed up from drugs, everything negative in my life felt so much more depressing and I’d just dwell on all the negative things throughout the day.

If you only have enough money to afford 1 supplement I’d go with piracetam.

I abused mdma a lot for so many years, and if I can feel ok right now then you’ll be fine too.
Going through this suffering may even have a beneficial effect on you in the long run.

 

[chitown rollin]

Xanax will relieve much stress but is NOT the answer. The horrible experience you will have if you attempt to medicate your anxiety with benzos will be catastrophic. I say this because you are feeling this all the time I assume? If you take benzos it WILL make you feel much better. What will you think of this? Probably that you should take benzos all the time until this is over. Taking benzos causes "rebound anxiety". This is basically added anxiety that comes after you are off of the benzos. Because of this, taking benzos will significantly slow down the recovery process of MDMA.

FBC- Good post. I am not trying to downplay the effects of MDMA use , even though it seems I am. Some of my friends recovered like I did, some didn't as fast. I had a friend who was messed up for well over a year from it. I don't like saying this as it may be discouraging to people such as the OP, but OP you need to keep in mind that this friend took three times the amount of pills you did in probably around the same time period.

I apologize if I was making it seem like nothing, as it is not. Damaged receptors and downregulation is horrible and can leave a person depressed and anxious. Like they will never be the same again. The important thing to keep in mind is that it is only temporary. Everybody makes a full recovery with the exception of a few. OP you are NOT in this "few" category I speak of. Just stay positive and take some of the supplements First Bad Comedown recommends in this and other threads. They will help. Good luck.

 

[First Bad Comedown]

Benzos...Weed

Wow...where do I begin?

Chitown - good follow through. Thanks for the compliment and support. It is very true that some heavy users experience a mild/moderate recovery while some minor users experience full psychosis and depersonalization. There is a wide spectrum with this experience of recovery. Some of it could be based upon genetic makeup and resilience in the serotonin system.

However, the pharmacokinetics of MDMA are NOT linear, so the concentration of the drug in the bloodstream and brain cannot be predicted reliably. A great number of factors can play a role. Research clearly shows that direct role played by temperature, but other factors such as contents of stomach/intestines, age, and previous use of marijuana may also play significant roles. The most reliable way to cause damage, proven in research, is to re-dose. Re-dosing and rolling multiple days in a row is exactly the method used to induce neurotoxicity in animals. With a high enough and frequent enough dose, all other factors wither in their importance...

This is important because the OP noted a repeated-use pattern on a prior occasion. Regardless of the countless stories of 'binges' by other people, research clearly shows that this is NOT a 'binge-worthy' drug. In fact, it is one of the MOST foolish drugs to use in this manner, and stories suggesting the absence of harm are quite dangerous.

I know I have made this point to you personally already - this is directed at new readers only.

Listen to Chitown's advice on benzos.
They are so dangerous you cannot imagine the horror awaiting you.
Literally hundreds of thousands of emergency room visits EVERY YEAR involve a benzodiazapene. Think about that....

I have some experience with benzos to add...
I never, ever used them in a foolish manner. Alcohol does NOT mix with them, and I was always smart enough to know that. I was also smart enough to stop taking them after 2-3 days.

If I take benzos ever, I still follow the '2-day' rule.
This means that I am allowed only ONE dose per day, not as many as I can get my hands on. Even with such a moderate use, day 2 always turns out to cause problems.

How can I explain?
If I take it only once, the next day is a little irritating.
If I take it for 2 days consecutively, the 3rd day is horrible.
Going beyond this simply does not happen.

The anxiety caused by benzos is special.
It is insidious - it gets inside of you and convinces you that the way you are feeling makes sense. What you become angry or upset about is REAL shit going on in your life. You have EVERY right to get pissed, you tell yourself. This has NOTHING to do with the drug...

How wrong this turns out to be.
Only after a real panic attack does the truth reveal itself.
Only in hind-sight does it become obvious what the cause is.
While it is going on there is NO awareness, NO control.

Opiates are my favorite, but with all drugs I practice a cautious approach...except for the obvious MDMA 'binge'.
With opiates, I allow 3 days maximum. Withdrawal DOES suck, but it pales in comparison to benzos. Opiates make you cranky, benzos make you crazy.

Again, 2 days is all it takes to cause a REALLY bad day for me...
Imagine what happens to people that just keep taking it...
They cannot live without it, because the reality of life becomes intolerable for them! If they DO eventually stop, the word 'panic' doesn't even come CLOSE.

They literally go the ER believing they are having a heart-attack!
Some of them DO.
Loss of consciousness and seizure is also common.
This is very scary shit...but what is scarier is the after-math.

Some former benzo users feel NOTHING when the discontinue the drug.
They have NO fear, NO anxiety, and also NO joy, NO pleasure. Nothing.
Blank, empty human beings...for YEARS.

If you thought MDMA recovery was bad, look into long-term benzo users in The Dark Side. My friend, that will set you straight on benzo use.

Benzos are great, no miraculous, for one-time EMERGENCY use.
They can literally save lives, including when an acute MDMA reaction threatens a lethal rise in blood pressure. They can prevent suicide, too. And the great part is they target ONLY the brain, so they don't interact with most medications that a doctor may need to give a patient. It is considered 'safe' for this reason.

Just like MDMA, a miracle can become a goddamn nightmare.
You have been warned by a man that has been there and back - listen to Chitown. Learn from his experience and avoid the benzos my friend.

Ok... moving on.

Jackie Chan is right, the weed high will eventually come back after a long time.
It is best to avoid it for now. I have had terrible reactions to it as well during my recovery.

During the first month I avoided it due to the incredible symptoms I experienced. But the FIRST time I smoked after losing my tolerance, it was at the 4 week mark. I took 5 hits of high quality dro and I proceeded to lose my mind. I literally felt like the FIRST night near-death experience was REOCCURRING! I thought it would kill me.

I soon read that marijuana increases serotonin in the brain.
5-HTP also does this, as does eating carbohydrates. This is when I came to the realization that more serotonin was NOT what we need during recovery. It is NOT the lack of the chemical that is the problem, it is the lack of storage space.

And since it is agreed upon that the brain is being 're-wired' and serotonin plays a tug-of-war with blood vessels in the brain...
It became obvious that smoking weed is basically putting your foot on the accelerator. The brain-raping accelerator.

Yes, that is the most apt description I can give to the 're-wiring' process.
As the serotonin nerves are carving their way through brain tissue, re-establishing receptor sites, brain functions are being disrupted. The result is anxiety, but the sensation is so much worse. RAPE is the only word strong enough in my vocabulary...

So smoking weed is BAD.
The process is already hard enough - the brain needs to take it as slowly as possible. Lets not speed it up by suddenly shoving serotonin into the brain-stem! Mmmkay?

By the way, I believe that the activation of the stomach and intestines is the first event that marijuana causes in this sequence. Once this begins, peristalsis then causes serotonin to increase in the brain.

5-HTP is NOT a good idea if you have REAL receptor damage. It caused me enough anxiety to stop taking it after the first two times. Soon, I am going to try it again...i'll let you guys know.

Carbohydrates are evil already - they were not meant to exist in such abundance in the human diet.

But to the recovering MDMA sufferer, they are the absolute WORST food you can eat. The intestines cannot digest carbohydrates without going through a vast increase in serotonin activity in the brain. Other inflammatory processes occur as well, such as insulin production...blood glucose goes up. But carbohydrates do not provide serotonin to replace what is spent, either.

Only tryptophan, an amino acid found in protein, can do this.
It is the sole precursor in our diets to BOTH serotonin AND bile.
When you eat a high protein diet, you are giving your brain all the serotonin AND digestive support you can. You are also lowering the serotonin activity required for peristalsis. The intestines can move meat along a LOT easier than carbs...

Back to the weed - if I smoke at ALL now I have developed a method.
I take ONE hit. Maaaaybe two.
That's it. I put it fucking DOWN.

With NO tolerance, that would get me high even in the good ol' days.
Now, it seems to be the magic number.
If I'm going to have a negative reaction, it is within reason.
But it takes 10-20 minutes to really feel the full effects.

When it is a pleasant high, it takes only 5 minutes to start enjoying it.
But when the onset is delayed, it feels like parts of my brain are experiencing the high at different times. I literally feel like the high is being 'dragged' from one segment of brain to the next. The symphony is in discord and the notes are played separately. It is just NOT the same experience.

If there is real anxiety, it seems to burn through all of the high.
By the time the anxiety wears off, I just feel tired and useless...not buzzed and happy. This appears to be getting slowly better...I can count on the 2-hit rule a lot more than I used to.

Of note - I have also realized that lowering my tolerance can help.
If I have a BAD reaction, and I still try again the next night, it is usually not that bad. By the 3rd and 4th nights, it tends to be OK. But still, I follow the 2-hit rule.

This is in NO way an endorsement of smoking during recovery.
I am at the 8 month mark and only started trying to smoke around month 6.
Even with my cautious approach, I tire of the experience after a few days. I go weeks in between, and I don't miss it ONE BIT.

Thizzin, I do NOT recommend you try this at all.
Give it a few more months, and even then - ONE hit.
Only ONE...wait 20 minutes. If you want more - ONE hit.
Got it?

A friend of mine who experienced a VERY similar psychosis from mushroom abuse stopped smoking for over a YEAR. If you knew him you would be astounded at this statement, because now he can smoke anyone under the table...and he does. But he clearly remembers a drastic increase in anxiety and major stomach pain as a result. It just takes time...