Ecstasy/Pipe Induced Psychosis

[First Bad Comedown]

Somedud - my buddy. SSRIs, Sex, and the PFC.

Thizzin, I hope you see this.
The joy and fear, wisdom and caution, and promise of recovery is intended for your eyes and many others.
To all who find themselves in this thread, please read...

Somedud....brother - I can't tell you how goddamn happy I am for you! :D:D

Seriously, despite all of my warnings and advice to avoid the SSRIs...I must start off with a congratulations.
I will express my opinions, but first you get a major high-five AND a slap on the ass!

Ok...

I found this guy 6 months ago, maybe more.
He was a few months ahead of me in recovery time, but seemed much worse off.
I reassured him more than just about anyone else on BL.

Right now, he is around one year post roll, am I right, Somedud?

He has been missing from BL for the past several weeks, no doubt working on his lifestyle as well as taking medication daily.

I predicted a change in him soon, and BOY was I right!
In the first few lines of his post I literally had to stop reading so I could laugh at the top of my lungs.
I can't tell you how awesome it is to see your wit and vocabulary in such contrast to your former posts!

It is indeed a remarkable turn-around.
Absolutely astounding.
Thizzin - if you ever needed a beacon of hope beyond my endless posts on research...you just found one.
No, this is more than a beacon...its a goddamn flare going off in your face!

Ok...I think I made my point.

I really am happy for you buddy.

You are now a prime example that restoration of serotonin activity in the prefrontal cortex does indeed result in profound improvement, both in mood AND personality.
Your diet and exercise regimen are contributing greatly, as well.
A most wonderful combination...

I imagine you have more energy than you know what to do with!
I bet you are horny as hell, too...

I do NOT want to detract from the real HOPE that your turn-around conveys.
It is a clear sign that one-day we will all return to our previous selves, at least 90-95%

HOWEVER...

Yes, here it comes....you knew it was going to.

Your sudden improvement is just that - sudden.

Do you REALLY believe that you accomplished in 5 weeks what your brain could NOT in an entire year?

Again, don't let this detract from my most sincere congratulations.
But just be honest with yourself.

SSRIs are known to increase BDNF and serotonin in the PFC.
Natural BDNF also does this, but to a lesser extent.
By targeting the PFC with this medication, you have undoubtedly sprouted MANY new axons in this very distant region of the brain.
Lucky you...

The REAL question is not whether Lexapro can cause an astounding and sudden re-innervation accompanied by extreme and REAL psychological improvement.
That is NOT in question.

What IS in question is this - is it long-lasting?

Let's really consider this carefully.
When the medication is one day withdrawn, what happens?
Do these axons wither and die? Or do they persist?

The serotonin nerves in the PFC are axons or extensions from the serotonin cell-body which is relatively far away.
The axons seen in the PFC are thinner and more fiber-like than the others seen in the brain.

The delicate and intricate nature of this network in the highest emotional center of our brain is likely responsible for the incredible and delicate emotional experience of MDMA.
It is intense, but some of the emotions felt are a symphony unlike any other ever experienced in life.
Am I right?

Animal research clearly shows that re-innervation in the PFC is less dense even after many years of recovery.
They have not shown the influence of SSRIs on this outcome...

Why is that?

Why have I never found a study that illustrates that long-term benefits/risks of SSRI use in relation to MDMA neurotoxicity?

Maybe I just didn't click enough links...
Hard to believe, considering the thousands I have sifted through.
Maybe it just isn't out there.

Furthermore, why is it that top neurologists from around the world err on the side of caution and do NOT recommend or prescribe SSRIs for former MDMA users?

Somedud, what kind of doctor wrote your prescription?
Was it even a neurologist?
Have you had a SPECT scan? fMRI?

Or was this a GP that wrote it?

Even IF my line of cautious reasoning is correct, it does not the doctor was flat wrong.
There are CLEAR benefits. Undeniably.
In MANY patients with depression...not just you.
People respond to these medications in ways that surprise and even shock family members, and sometimes doctors...

However....yes another 'however'...

A few warning signs are staring you in the face, my friend.
For one, MOST patients require an increase in their dose within the first few months.

WHOAH.
Big RED flag, right there.

That sounds an awful lot like other drugs, doesn't it?
Tolerance.

If these new axons are real, why do the benefits fade?
Why can't the patient continue the initial dose with the same effects?

You do know that some patients amp it up to 20-40mg/day and stay there for YEARS, right?

Some people have been on SSRIs for more than 20 years!
Hmmm....

Do you think they continue to feel as fantastic as you do right now?
Of course they don't - they simply assimilate the change and it becomes 'normal'.

Not only do users of SSRIs tend to increase their dose, but they also experience sexual side-effects.
Because the effects of the medication takes so long to become evident, many patients do not perceive the sexual changes as harmful.
In fact, libido often goes WAY up. So does stamina - just like with MDMA you can withhold orgasm for an extended period of time.
Men can fuck like a god!

Initial research by pharmaceutical companies classified sexual side-effects arrogantly low - around 5%.
They were not even ASKING about it - only patients that volunteered the information contributed to this data.
And the studies were done within the first 4 weeks, FAR too soon for the effects to be felt.

Further research that required such questions at a later date would reveal that sexual side-effects occur in 60-80% of patients!

Um, that's like all of them.

Ok, lets think some more...
What kind of side-effects are these?

Delayed orgasm is only the beginning.
Difficulty achieving erection or vaginal dryness soon follows.

This can be a problem for many people on MDMA as well, but I was always able to get past it within two minutes....if I waited for the peak.
I cannot imagine it happening any other way...

Eventually complete lack of orgasm can occur.
That means no matter how hard or long a person tries it does NOT happen.
At all.

Then there is a scarier version - orgasm occurs without any sensation.
That's right, ejaculation or vaginal contractions happen, but there is NO pleasure experienced.
None. 0%.
Zero.

Ok...
I'm shaking my head over here.

Because I experienced ejaculatory anhedonia during the first 3-4 months of my MDMA recovery!
Let me tell you, it is quite confusing/upsetting/enraging.

Ironically, I maintained enough sensation during the rest of sex for it to be worth it, but early on orgasm involved a sudden LOSS of ALL feeling.
I would go from pleasurable, albeit sometimes awkward sex, to a complete mental silence.
The sheer lack of feeling was so abrupt it was shocking.

Eventually, there were after-effects.
For 10-20 minutes after orgasm I would receive small waves of relaxation that felt similar to what was previously felt in the first 2 minutes after!

Just like the marijuana high, the orgasm high was changed.
The symphony was out of sync.
A note or two would play, but MANY were absent or delayed.
It was NOT the same anymore - pleasure during orgasm could be rated at 10-30% at best during the first 100 days of recovery.
This was WITH piracetam, by the way.

Piracetam's effect improved considerably as my recovery progressed...reaching 50-60% pleasure between months 4-6.
When the Piracetam was removed, it would drop every time.
When it was restarted, the first week saw the greatest improvement.

Now, at month 8 I have been without the Piracetam for 2 months.
This is the longest I have gone without it since I started it at the end of the first horrific month.
This is also the BEST I have felt without it!
I am very happy to report that most of my orgasms are now worthy of 70-80% rating.
I know, using percentages to rate a symphony of pleasure is a blunt system, but it will have to do.

I have maintained a VERY active sex-life throughout my recovery.
I have a very demanding wife. And she's hot...
So what choice do I have?
For this reason, I consider my observations to be more than relevant.

The first ejaculation of the month is normally the highest volume for me.
This is normal, but what isn't normal is that it is also the least pleasurable.
Having sex on consecutive days seems to improve the orgasm considerably.

Visual stimulation, such as porn or strip clubs, is finally starting to return to normal!

There were times that I was having sex, with the smoking hot Puertorican goddess that is my wife, and I could NOT enjoy the sight of her.
Imagine how this made me feel inside.
Watching porn or other women (with her) did NOT make a difference.
It was like my software for sex appeal was BROKEN.

I could see the images that would previously cause excitement, but it was no more exciting than smelling cardboard!

Keep in mind that in the background there was a constant gnawing, antagonizing feeling in my head.
Life in general REALLY sucked, so why should sex be any different?
After all, the brain is being 're-wired'.

While this was happening, very LITTLE pleasure existed in ANY facet of life.
The only exception I can think of that was consistent was the taste of food.
Quite surprisingly, food still tasted just as good as before.
I thought I should mention that.

Just try to imagine seeing the most beautiful woman in the world standing in front of you naked...begging to be your sex slave.
And you feel nothing.

It is a horrible, non-human existence, my friends.

Why would I go to such lengths in describing a very personal matter?
Aside from the fact that I have never been embarrassed or shy about things called 'truth'...

This complete loss of sexual function is an extension of the loss seen when USING MDMA.
While on the drug, visual stimulation can be HIGHLY arousing, no doubt.
If you wait for the peak, erections and incredible sex are earth-shattering!

Many people find themselves too distracted to concentrate on sex, anyways. They are more interested in touching/cuddling/kissing.
I never skipped on that part, either....but the sex was always inevitable.
It was one of the reasons I started rolling too often.
That, and a great threesome with a busty vixen. :D

But the delayed orgasm, which is welcome, is a sign of something more sinister.
There are many others on BL that have stories about sexual anhedonia following MDMA use.
The same thing that makes sex AMAZING on this drug, can make it a pleasure-less and EMPTY experience afterwards.
For MONTHS.

Need I provide a more convincing argument for moderate dosing?
And spacing of rolls?
Anyways...

The loss of pleasure AND libido seen in SSRI patients CAN be extensive.
In MOST patients, these effects wear off within a few months of discontinuation.
Most...

For a small number of SSRI users, the effects persist for YEARS.
That's right - let your jaw hit the fucking keyboard. It should.
It's called PSSD or Post SSRI Sexual Dysfunction.

As a rare condition, many doctors don't even believe their patients when approached.
Multiple tests on hormone function, adrenal function, and others are run.
Some of these poor people are given NO explanation.

Many of them used SSRIs for YEARS before they quit.
They cannot be held responsible for such a long and foolish pattern of use when the doctors and companies prescribing it are thought to have all the answers and know all the risks!

However, there are some patients that take one or two doses and develop immediate and SEVERE loss of function.
This is more likely to occur when a patient switches from one SSRI to another, but for some it is the very FIRST pill.
Even if the pills are stopped immediately, recovery can be JUST as long.

And the problem is not only sexual.
These people experience a complete disconnection from their humanity.
They complain of MANY of the same symptoms that MDMA sufferers do - head-pressure, brain zaps, constant anxiety, etc.

I have seen hyper-vigilance among PSSD sufferers that makes us MDMA sufferers look like causal complainers!
They live a life often classified as 'non-human' or 'emotionless'.
You should see these people go back and forth on boards and email groups comparing this supplement and that...what meds did you take? how long? should I try this one? how about that one?

It is rather astounding to witness.
BOTH MDMA AND SSRIs target the PFC.
BOTH CAN DAMAGE IT.

For many PSSD sufferers there is a trend of recovery within a 1-2 year time-frame, quite like MDMA.
For some 2-4 years seems necessary, although they tend to be constantly searching for a way out of their hell.

For the very unlucky it goes past the 5 year mark. And beyond!
I have witnessed people suffering 10-15 years without restoration of function.
They still feel NO sexual feelings, regardless of stimuli.
Orgasm is absent or extremely disappointing, and injections are often the ONLY way to achieve erections at all.
One woman claimed to experience a completely painless childbirth.

The most permanent cases seem to be those that were either VERY long-term users, or extremely sensitive first-timers with possible genetic predisposition....OR they were teenagers when they began taking medication.

Think about that...a doctor prescribed an SSRI to a person just beginning puberty, before the brain is developed.
This person doesn't even get to experience 'normal' before the drug completely destroys all sexuality.
Children should NOT be medicated.
With only RARE exceptions.
Period.

I have pointed out on more than once occasion that the two kids who shot up Columbine many years ago were on SSRIs.
Are we still supposed to believe that 'bullying' caused this?

No - loss of PFC function causes a unique type of suffering that was NEVER intended to be experienced by human beings.
It is a perversion of a VERY complex design.

The PFC is believed to be responsible for some of our highest emotional/cognitive abilities.
Guilt and remorse are linked to the PFC.
These two emotions are advanced and are arguably NOT experienced by animals.
Is it becoming more clear how these kids could murder?

Another higher function of the PFC that is thought to be a uniquely human trait is empathy.
This is the HALLMARK of MDMA's effect!

Empathy is the ability to imagine another person's perspective - to identify with their experience and emotion.
Anyone that has read this far, please hear me - MDMA does not posses some 'magic'.

The 'magic' is already inside of you.
Billions of years of evolution has resulted in larger frontal lobes and MUCH larger pre-frontal cortex in humans versus lower primates.

MDMA is nothing more than a key to this magic.
Your ability to empathize, to embrace, to caress, to regret, to remorse...and indeed to orgasm is ALL tied to this magical, wonderful gift we have been given.

I have little doubt in the existence of God - evolution proves design, IMO.

This highly complex brain region was designed over countless eons of human/primate suffering.
We stand at the top of the mountain, people.

MDMA is a wonderful experience, especially if sex is involved.
But the symphony of emotion/sensation that occurs is NOT meant to happen at our whim.
We were not mean to have this key!

The same goes for SSRIs.

Although I will concede that SSRIs are arguably much LESS toxic than MDMA and their mode of action is different.
But BOTH target the PFC and BOTH can damage it.

I know this was a highly emotional and rhetoric-filled plea, but I felt obligated to share my perspective with everyone.
There are more than just medical reasons that I am opposed to SSRIs.

But the medical reasons are DAMN solid, Somedud.
The majority of patients experience some sexual side-effects.
The majority of patients have to increase their dose if use is long-term.
The majority of patients experience 'discontinuation syndrome' or a profound withdrawal when the medication is stopped.

Tapering is ALWAYS utilized.
You can NOT cold-turkey these meds.

I have wondered if that could be a cause of MDMA nuerotoxicity...the sudden cessation of the drug's far-reaching effects.
We are brought to a height no human should ever reach, and then cast down.

Perhaps very small doses of MDMA, tapered down over the course of a week...could prevent some of the long-term sequelae seen in acute cases.
A risky approach, considering some of the other theories...

But there are WELL-established risks associated with SSRIs.
And there are also WELL-established benefits.

The PFC holds the magic though, not the pills.
I know I am right about this.

What I DON'T know can be found much higher up on the page.
I'll repeat - do these axons wither and die, or do they persist?

The evidence suggests that long-term use is VERY foolish.
It also suggests that short-term use still includes some risk, such as extreme anxiety/depression upon withdrawal.
Not to mention penis issues...

So, what is my suggestion to my good friend, Somedud?

Moderation.

You already know this - you told me before you started it that you only wanted to go on a 3 month trial.

I think that is a brilliant idea.
Stick to your plan, brother.

Do NOT increase your dose, and taper that shit when the time comes.
Do NOT let yourself be talked out of this plan by some 'doctor'.
Ok?

Remember that research DOES show recovery of serotonin innervation in the PFC.
Even if it is NOT as dense, it is still significant!
Recovery DOES happen eventually - I promise.

And please....please - come back and tell us what happens!
We need to know.
I need to know.

This amazing turn-around we have witnessed in you, this transformation , will it LAST?

I hope so.
I really, really do.
I want it for you, more than you can imagine.

But I am also afraid for you, because I have seen the dark side with you, my friend.
I have also met the souls that never returned from it.

Respect the gift that is your 'Prefrontal Cortex'.

Recognize that the title given to it by science is pale and unworthy in light of what we have learned.
This incredible gift of empathy/guilt/pleasure/love and its symphony of complex connections to the rest of who we ARE....this humanity can be damaged.
Destroyed.

Chose wisely.

And as always, good luck.

 

[Ringfinger]

Well, I'm prescribed anti psychotics right now, but I am not taking them...that must say something about me, possibly having a mild psychosis?

And weed is definitely not the answer. I absolutely strive to feel sober at all times. Because at this point, it feels like I am still on drugs, or under the influence when I am really not.

Whenever I smoke weed, I have the worst depersonalization/anxiety ever. Parts of my body will go numb, my head feels like it exploding with electric shocks, my face will feel ice cold, I "forget to breathe" almost the entire time I am high, I can't communicate with others, and I leave my body, and look at myself in third person it seems, with this strange inter-monologue, literally praying to god to make my high go away.

Haha, some of the scariest experiences of my life, besides this past one with mdma.

My brain just can't tolerate like anyone else.

I find myself having flash backs of everyone time I have been high, been wasted, or rolling balls, and it all just makes me sick to my stomach. I just want to be 100% sober, feel 100% how a normal human being should, without drugs every coming into play.

Thank you to EVERYONE for all the advice and treasury of knowledge. I'm taking every paragraph and every recommendation into account and I will keep you all updated with my progress.

Keep ya head up bro. I have a similar story which I posted about a few times here. With me though, it was gradual. One time I was rolling I felt a mild panic attack and like I was going to faint. After a minute it went away and I enjoyed myself. Then the next 2 times I started to get a panic attack on the comeup. Then my LAST TIME I got a full on panic attack with high body temp, blood pressure, etc on the comeup.

I think my brain chemistry started to change during this period (whether because of the MDMA or not I don't know) but I now have heightened anxiety 24/7.

Since my last use I have started eating better, working out and now I feel much better, despite having heightened general anxiety.

 

[waketheeffup]

This process of recovery is not simply a process of suffering, this is a 're-wiring' of the brain itself. I can actually feel subtle cognitive effects accruing over time. As my anxiety slowly tapers, my personality seems to change ever so slightly at the same time. I have often wondered who I will turn out to be when this is all over. But at least I know that the suffering will one day end. I expect that I will never again experience anxiety the way that I used to...

do you think that time might be the cause of this change? If i look back at my life, where i am each year is vastly different, including the struggles, stressors, anxiety levels, emotional experiences, etc

I really really think you've convinced yourself that you've had this hardcore recovery and you aren't through it yet. Dude, you're typing from the standpoint of a (semi) educated person with working cognitive function.

its really easy to convince one's self that the reason they don't want to work is because "they're ADHD" or because "i took a roll last weekend." In most cases, i think its because we, as "free" people,
usually dont enjoy work.

Your emotions are slowly changing, well, duh.... everyone's emotions change throughout the years. You had that one bad comedown years back though, that must be it

I must also point out a fallacy in your argument.
You bring up methamphetamine users to illustrate its danger and the relative 'safety' of MDMA. Everyone know that MDMA stands for 3,4-Methylenedioxymethamphetamine, right?

when you change a chemical compound yet a word is still in it, it does NOT mean it has the same effects. How many different types of LSD were created before they found the effective synthesis (25)

is bk-MDMA the same as MDMA? nope.

it is STILL an amphetamine.

yet another chemical compound that differs from meth.


for the op : you will be "normal" again my friend, your brain is a regenerative organ. The body is a miracle worker in ways that science can't even fully comprehend (thus explain). We're resilient creatures, try to find yourself the little things in life that make you that much more joyous and i believe that your recovery time will be greatly impacted for the better.

A lot of the people who are tossing you theories that boast multiple year recovery times are doing just that, theorizing. They don't know, they can't know, and they don't have your answer. Hell, they're just reading and reciting "information" they found on the internet about medical studies. Probably a lot of them just reading abstracts (as you usually have to purchase the full study) and thinking they've fully understood an experiment and all of its variables. Even THOSE are experiments with hypothesis and "conclusions" from said hypothesis.

The guy who gave himself an enema and claims it was the MDMA that fucked up his digestive system is telling you its gonna take years.... think about it

 

[Fyasko.]

PTSD from a bad experience, simple as that. Your over thinking it, I WAS there. Trust me.

Read my damn threads I was worse than you man, I dropped out a school suffered a mTBI and lost my girlfriend.

Imagine MY anxiety/panic attacks. I was a hot shot, lost my friends, lost my school, and thought I lost my life, forever.

Chill man, I'll tell you a cure ite?

Firstly, stop thinking about, I'm 150% sure right now that you analyze every action, thought and move you make and compare it to your old self, or second guess, and be like, did I thunk like that?

Your stressing yourself out, your brain out of homeostasis, and chitowns right. Your NOT in psychosis, your doc wouldn't put you on SSRIs, possible mania mixed with a psychosis is a very dangerous thing. They'd start you out on 50-100 my seroquel and work you up over 300+ mg where serotogenic activity starts to happen, to boost your mood, with the stabilizing effect of an atypical antipsychotic.

Anyways moving on, your brain is out of homeostasis from a bad trip, it's brainwavw frequencys are all out of whack, gaurenteed. Once out of homeostasis, if it can't handle a threat, bam! It puts up it's sheiks, and that what your experiencing, the horrfic rhetoric persuasions that is derealization.

Remember now, you only claim to notice a difference after a pipe bomb that was tested on pillreports, and MANY users as 100% pipes.

Trust me bro, read people that are fucked from LSD, same symptoms as you.. They don't have brain damage do they? No. Neither do you, your stressing yourself out too much after a bad experience/trauma.

It takes a while for the brain to comprehend that shyt man.

Like I said I was there, guess what, the ONLY thing that's really helped me since trying EVERY herb on the fucking planet.

My docs medicine, with the exception of benzos, I only fill my scripts to sell them so my SSRIs are paid for.

Let your brain relaxxxxx and process what you put yourself through.

My suggestion; and what helped me the most:

Lexapro 10 mg, titrate up if needed under the supervision of your family doc. It's the most potent SSRI available, and will make you relax enough to see how badly your over reacting. Since starting it, dare I say it, I feel like the old me almost. I'm looking back realizing how much I blew this out of proportion.

Now that the SSRIs are in place, be SURE to give them 6-8 weeks, it took me 6 to notice the beginning of my mood inprovements, and start to chill me out.

Now that your calm, you want to know the true magical cure?

WEED, yup, that's it, weed. Since I started blazing again, it's gave me some REAL insight that I can't even begin to explain, on how FUCKED up my thought processes are/where.

Also it's shown to help those/prevent/cure PTSD, which is what you hav a mild version of, wiki the symptoms.

Gaurenteed, you've relived that night and tore yourself up over what you Sid over and over and over again am I right?

Mmmhmmm, I thought I COMPLETELY destroyed my serotogenic system, bc I couldn't sleep, and lived in one giant panic attack.

Then I rolled again, and wadda ya kno, I could sleep fine, I could go out around people without thinking I was going crazy..

Then I started lexapro after telling myself I wouldn't FOReVER thinking/being told it's the wrong thing to do. Shortly after, I started smoking weed and fixed my thought pattern, I no longer live in the past OR the crazy fucked up analytical spin that I su myself into, I'm happy to say, that I'm ME again.

Not fully, not the same (as experiences change everyone and mold you as your grow with wisdom [hopefully]), but I'm closer to being me than I EVER thought possible, swear to god. I believe, given another 6 months of going to school, I'll be 95% ish, but NOT the same, I've learned SO much from this, as will you. Once you experience happiness again, trust me, itll be it's OWN ecstasy. Legit, I feel an almost MDMA come up today when I was shopping for some threads I was THAT happy, and plus it's my 5 th week mark on lexapro and I think it's kicking in..

Trust me, the longer you let yourself suffer without doing taking control of your mind/actions, the bigger imprint this fucked up experience is going to mould into the billion mike long spider web of neural connections you've got flowing through every single fucking cell in your brain, trust me, you don't want that.

Try it, I dare you to come back and say it never worked.

Of course, I left out the few most IMPORTANT steps.

Diet and exercise. I eat an impervious diet, follow by a pretentious exercise schedule that would blow the wind out of 95% of people reading this lungs.

And of course, if your going to take ANY supplement, let I'd be curcumin, BCM 95 version at that, it has the best bioavailablity. I also take ginko, ashwagandha, multivitamins, Shakeology (amazing!!!!), and many other essential vitamins and b complexes daily.

Short and simple, curcumin + exercise = 200-500% more BDNF in your blood stream, means more stem cells, and also it's one of the ONLY growth factors that repair the DIRECT damage that MDMA causes. (appx %'s, but close I'd imagine) and of course, SSRIs potently increase bdnf, but that's your call.

So bow that you've wasted the past twenty mintues of my life giving you the tools to craft yourself a new life, what are you gunna do about it, continue making threads on the Internet looking for answers me, bben, FBC, catinthehat have spent MONTHs looking for, that have no answer btw, OR are you going to learn from your ancestors (so to speak), skip the months I've wasted along with many others chasing a dog that's not going to bark, or are you gunna get the fuck up, stop bitching/dwelling about your life in self pity, and go for a run, lift some weights and eat yourself the colours of the vegetable rainbow?

The choose is up to you my friend, I gave you all I could..

Cheers man, and good luck.

Madd fuckin props for this
OP this is probably the best advice you'll find on BL.
i foolishly started off this summer with .5g of methylone, .5g butylone and .5g MDMA, which has left me completely brain dead. and this post was exactly what i needed.
in fact, im gonna print out this post and put it on my wall so i can use it as a reference. thanks somedud

and here I am, 18 years old, on my own, with this huge MDMA problem on top of it all.

if you've been thizzin since 98 then that means you started when you were like 6

 

[chitown rollin]

waketheeffup- great post. You took the words out of my mouth with the methamphetamine thing. Yes, MDMA is an amphetamine, but trying to draw a comparison between methamphetamine and MDMA is just ridiculous. Though MDMA releases both serotonin AND dopamine, it mainly acts upon the serotonin transporter as methamphetamine acts upon the dopamine transporter... two different parts of the brain you could say to someone who doesn't understand.

FBC- The reason that I try to downplay the effects of MDMA, ESPECIALLY in threads that you post in (if not all), is because I feel that you are throwing around all of this medical mumbo jumbo that people like the OP are likely to not understand and get scared by. Telling people that it will take a certain amount of time for recovery is just not fair. Everyone is different, we are all made up different, and while I was normal in a few short months, many aren't "normal" for a year at least. You just don't know.

I think it is great how much you know and how you are willing to share your knowledge to help, but sometimes I think it can do more harm mentally to a person than help. Having said that, it is GOOD to scare people away from weekly use or "binges", and that seems to be a common theme of this thread. Not trying to start anything here, just voicing my opinion.

 

[severely etarded]

waketheeffup- great post. You took the words out of my mouth with the methamphetamine thing. Yes, MDMA is an amphetamine, but trying to draw a comparison between methamphetamine and MDMA is just ridiculous. Though MDMA releases both serotonin AND dopamine, it mainly acts upon the serotonin transporter as methamphetamine acts upon the dopamine transporter... two different parts of the brain you could say to someone who doesn't understand.

FBC- The reason that I try to downplay the effects of MDMA, ESPECIALLY in threads that you post in (if not all), is because I feel that you are throwing around all of this medical mumbo jumbo that people like the OP are likely to not understand and get scared by. Telling people that it will take a certain amount of time for recovery is just not fair. Everyone is different, we are all made up different, and while I was normal in a few short months, many aren't "normal" for a year at least. You just don't know.

qft. Meth and MDMA are nothing alike, regardless of what anyone says. They do not even carry cross tolerance.

 

[First Bad Comedown]

First, thanks to the BL programmers for the site update...well worth the wait.

As usual, I must respond to some criticism.
Why it follows me into these posts is hard to understand.

Some people seem to think that blanket encouragement along with belittling symptoms is the right approach...
While there is a place for this, it is NOT a substitute for comprehensive information.
And belittling the 're-wiring' process caused by MDMA is pretty damned ignorant and dangerous.

My number one message has always been that re-dosing is the most reliable way to induce neurotoxicity.
Regardless of what the exact cause of toxicity IS, or WHY it happens to some and not others....there is abundantly clear evidence that dosage is the greatest risk factor that can be controlled. The difference between moderate and severe outcomes may be separated by a very thin line.

waketheeffup -

No, time is NOT the cause of the changes I perceive.
You are really grasping for something here...
Why would you even suggest that the 're-wiring' process is not really happening the way that I suspect?
What does that do for you?

It has NOT been 'years' for me, either.
It has been almost exactly 9 months, if you care to know.
That places me well within the normal boundaries of clinical recovery.

Again, why are you attempting to argue with me on such subjective grounds?
First you say it could be the passage of time.
Then you suggest that I have just convinced myself that this is happening, like other people that yearn for a label.
Then you return to time as the culprit...

Now you want to argue about semantics?
Excuse me?

It seems I have to argue with multiple people on this one - MDMA IS AN AMPHETAMINE.

I did not say they are the 'same'.
But I AM suggesting that they are similar - that they share a common denominator.

Since it seems necessary...

ALL amphetamines, regardless of their exact influence on different synapses, are phenylethylamines.
Those are alkaloid compounds that contain a single amino group - such as tyrosine or tryptophan.
BK-MDMA is also an amphetamine, and a cathinone.

To point at ONE amphetamine as clearly evil and another as an innocent entactogen is clearly wishful thinking.
In fact, the only thing that would qualify METH as more destructive than MDMA is its typical pattern of use.
There is plenty of data that suggests MDMA can cause more extensive damage with relatively little usage.

However, ALL amphetamines share a number of effects in common - raised heart rate, diaphoresis, anxiety....as well as the more serious consequences - hallucinations, stroke, psychosis, and of course, DEATH.
This applies to meth, MDMA, adderall....even sudafed.

Moving on...

Yes, the guy who gave himself an enema IS advising the OP that recovery can take 1-2 years.
That is because it is the truth.
It is a rather astonishing trend seen TIME AND TIME AGAIN.
Even in severe cases, this rule of thumb holds true.
It is based on extensive research done by countless healthcare professionals.

Claiming that 'we are all different' is simply deflecting real data, Chitown.
But don't worry - our arguments are over with. I think we reached an understanding.

Sure, many people DO recover in a few months.
But for this OP it has already been 6 months.
He also claimed to go through repeated dosing, a clear risk factor that I constantly warn people about.
AND he describes a severe psychosis - something you want to dismiss as too subjective to be correct.

Despite my long-winded posts that contain some alarming information....at least I am taken seriously when I advocate a definitive time-table for recovery!

That IS what the OP and so many others are looking for.
And it is a HELL of a lot more than what some people offer around here.

This goes for all of you - don't just give them a pat on the back and a few statements about the resilient nature of the brain - actually help these people.
If you have been there before, give a detailed response that contains examples of your progression.
Is that so much to ask?

Ok, I'm done for now.
It's good to be back...