Hey everyone I just wanted to ask if you guys knew if it was ok to take Ecstasy and Claritin at the same time. I get allergies a lot and was wondering if taking these two at the same time will cause some type bad side effect or anything like that. Thanks for the help!
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MDMA Moderators: Esperighanto
Ecstasy and Claritin Question
- Thread starter nexttq
- Start date
kroniic
Bluelighter
Don't think they would conflict with each other dude. Don't take my word as gold though.
kroniic
Bluelighter
I found MDMA usually gets rid of whatever aches me. I once had a massive headache, had some, when I started rolling, all pain gone.
Wisdom teeth, I had a great after glow for a few days, did not feel the pain of my wisdom teeth.
Wisdom teeth, I had a great after glow for a few days, did not feel the pain of my wisdom teeth.
crazyoldcoot
Greenlighter
I have a skin disorder that causes me to take 4 times the recommended dosage of many antihistamines every day. This includes Loratadine(Claratin), Cetrizine-HCl(Zyrtek), and Diphenhyramine(Benadryl). I have never had any negative interaction with MDMA. In fact, if you take around 100mg of Diphenhydramine(Bendryl) after your roll it will stop the release of serotonin and make it easier to calm down and sleep. Also, MDMA is a potent analgesic/anti inflammatory. I once was having a bad asthma attack just after taking MDMA, once it hit all my symptoms went away. I was very relieved and it actually caused me to start researching all sorts of stuff regarding neurochemistry. I am now deep in the rabbit hole learning more than I ever thought possible!
crazyoldcoot
Greenlighter
I just confirmed this from a Japanese study conducted in 2008, "Diphenhydramine was found to strongly inhibit MDMA uptake."
The article is in a medical journal though, so you would have to pay $39 to read it. But I take it after every roll and can confirm that it works for me. Just don't take it before the roll, like Fluoxetine(Prozac), or it will diminish the effects.
The article is in a medical journal though, so you would have to pay $39 to read it. But I take it after every roll and can confirm that it works for me. Just don't take it before the roll, like Fluoxetine(Prozac), or it will diminish the effects.
First Bad Comedown
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Nov 26, 2010
- Messages
- 562
Crazyoldcoot -
I highly recommend against combining benedryl (diphenihydramine hcl) with MDMA. Especially in high doses.
Other anti-histamines should be fine, but let me share a story about benedryl...
It is known to inhibit the uptake of serotonin in higher doses.
Combining two different drugs that affect serotonin increases the risk of serotonin syndrome.
This is the case with 5-HTP, St. John's Wort, SSRIs, MAOIs, and of course MDMA. I have pondered whether mushrooms or LSD could also cause this.
The stories of BAD trips from these could be blamed on serotonin cascade.
I was FINE until I combined MDMA and benedryl.
I rolled two weekends in a row, then two days in a row.
My total lifetime MDMA use was less than 30 tabs, and this was my first time breaking the rules on spacing.
After this 'mini-binge' I was feeling FINE.
Until the benedryl...
I took 100mg, or four benedryl at 48 hours post-roll.
I have NEVER felt such euphoria/dizziness from benedryl in my LIFE.
I literally felt slanted sitting in my chair...a little like being drunk.
It was actually a lot of fun. I know why it is called a deleriant.
Yes, delerious is the right word.
The very next day, everything changed.
Of course I slept in late, but within an hour or so of waking up (72 hours post roll), I experienced a sudden and dramatic shift from which I am still recovering.
Serotonin Sydnrome is also called Serotonin Toxicity.
It is normally the result of more than one medication and their interaction causing a dramatic increase in serotonin activity in the brain-stem.
This is a life-threatening condition.
It is difficult to convey the seriousness of this to others online.
Those of us that have lived through it loudly proclaim -
'You do NOT want to experience this!'
I went from sitting in my chair feeling 100% normal to having a HEART ATTACK in a period of 30 seconds. Sudden onset of tachycardia is a hallmark of SS.
Keep in mind that I was in great physical condition when this happened - I had been exercising daily for almost 2 years prior to this.
If I had been in poor health I firmly believe I would have died!!
There was a cascade of other symptoms that followed, but the tachycardia was the most sudden and shocking of them all.
I gripped the left side of my chest and I felt like my heart had STOPPED.
The physical pain in my chest cannot be put into words.
After about 90 seconds of absolute panic I realized that my heart hadn't stopped, rather it was beating insanely fast!
Sprinting a MILE would hardly produce such a heart-rate!
Try to imagine the chemical release required to instigate such a dramatic elevation of heart-rate.
How is it even possible for the nervous system to accomplish this so quickly?
Anyways, the next serious symptom was intense stomach cramping.
It felt like a bag rocks had been placed in my stomach.
The weight just kept increasing! More and more....the pain ramped up.
Eventually I could see visual swelling from the outside.
Severe burping would soon follow.
This ungodly pain in my gut started at my stomach and traveled south very slowly.
I could feel it transition ALL the way through my intestines.
My liver was definitely fighting for its life.
A single punch to the gut could have ruptured it.
Thats how bad the swelling was.
Despite the fact that I hadn't had ANY fluids, I felt like my entire body was swelling with water.
I believe my body was pulling water into my intestines to speed the process of digestion.
It was literally trying to increase the weight to force the contents through.
My face began to swell from the fluid.
During this entire process I was panicking and pacing.
I could NOT sit still. I felt that if I sat or laid down my intestines would BURST.
Not only did I want gravity to help digestion, but I also had a strange desire to keep my heart-rate up.
I knew that if I didn't use my muscles to increase circulation, my body was going to do it chemically.
I was out of breath even though I was only pacing back and forth.
The abnormal level of fluid in my gut continued to increase as the pain and swelling moved south.
I felt like it was tearing its way through me!
After an hour and a half I developed a MAJOR migraine.
This became SO intense that I couldn't stand even the slightest noise.
My ears were ringing. My brain was vibrating with pain.
This is hyponatremia, an unfortunate cause of death seen in MDMA users.
If the swelling around the brain is not controlled it can cause stroke and death.
It is normally associated with rapid intake of water, but it has been found in MDMA users that have NOT had fluids.
That would include me...72 hours after my last MDMA dose!
I can easily see how this kills people.
Even without MDMA, serotonin syndrome is considered a life-threatening but treatable condition.
It is known to cause heart-attacks and stroke.
I should also point out that during this entire process my kidneys were not functioning properly.
Normally such a level of activity and metabolism would result in a VERY full bladder.
Not this time.
It was very strange realizing that I should have peed but couldn't.
This is caused by SIADH, or sydrome of inappropriate anti-diuretic hormone.
A less severe version of this is normal during MDMA use, by the way.
How is it that all of this fluid could be swimming around my intestines and blood stream, yet my body was not allowing my kidneys to remove any of it?
There is a good chance I had a stroke and simply didn't realize it that night.
Indeed, my ability to speak was interfered with.
I could mumble incoherent words or phrases, but describing more than a symptom or two was beyond me.
I also had severe pain in one arm.
Classic signs of stroke...
Many will wonder why I didn't call 911.
How I wish I had...
Looking back I realize that my ability to reason was also interfered with, not just speech.
The level of anxiety was UNREAL.
The anxiety felt during the come-up on MDMA is NOTHING compared to this. Multiply the cortisol by ten-fold and you MIGHT get close.
I still can't believe it didn't kill me.
Here is one reason why - I intervened.
Once my migraine got really bad I began to realize what the cause was - an interaction between MDMA and benedryl.
During the first hour or so I really didn't suspect either.
Most of my symptoms were bodily, not cerebral.
And it had been 3 DAYS since my last MDMA exposure!
Later research revealed that many people have severe reactions up to a WEEK after use.
Once it progressed to swelling around the brain, I started asking myself if it could be the MDMA.
I remembered reading that liver failure is sometimes seen in severe/fatal cases. Then I thought about the abdominal swelling that began in my stomach...the relentless cramping.
Then I realized that my temperature was finally beginning to rise.
I felt the fever creeping up on me.
This was the transition point for me.
When I checked my temp was 101.
Anything over 101 is considered a SEVERE case of serotonin syndrome.
At 104 organ damage and death become real possibilities.
I immediately removed all my clothing and I began applying ice water to my face and neck.
I couldn't believe how much immediate relief it brought me.
It was SO cold, but the pressure in my head began receding within a single minute!
I decided I had to calm down and sit down.
It had been nearly two hours since it began and I knew it had to end.
I continued applying ice water for the next hour.
I had also begun sipping electrolytes, which served as a diuretic.
Slowly my kidneys came back online and I started to piss out all that extra water.
I made it through.
Looking back there were many factors involved that lead to this horrible condition.
MDMA is the primary factor, above all else.
There should be NO doubt among its worshipers.
MDMA is dangerous.
What I have described has happened to many people.
Plenty of case-studies exist that follow this cascade of events and it is not normally called Serotonin Syndrome.
The similarity between SS and the lethal cases of MDMA exposure is striking.
The two may not be uniquely separate conditions.
I had also used an enema during one of my rolls.
I know...pretty amusing.
I'm sure I'm not the only one that has had to shit while rolling.
I wouldn't have bothered if I didn't have two smoking hot women expecting me to fuck them senseless.
Re-dosing on MDMA and not spacing my rolls was a big mistake.
But remember, I felt FINE afterwards. Completely, 100% normal.
Until the goddamn BENEDRYL.
If I hadn't taken those four delerious little pills, I would probably still be rolling today.
The only other factor that I look back at is the amount of food I ate during the first two days after MDMA.
I normally don't want to eat anything for at least two days.
But not this time...I just filled myself up.
More than once.
Having a full intestinal tract undoubtedly made it MUCH worse.
If there hadn't been so much to move, it would have been a much simpler process.
But I still would have had SS.
So I beg you, all of you - DO NOT COMBINE BENEDRYL WITH MDMA.
Certainly not in higher doses.
It is NOT worth it.
I also strongly recommend against eating heavily until a few days have passed. If you are going to have a bad reaction to the MDMA you do NOT want a full gut when it happens.
The primary purpose for serotonin is intestinal motility.
My intestines nearly killed me that night.
Thanks to benedryl...
I highly recommend against combining benedryl (diphenihydramine hcl) with MDMA. Especially in high doses.
Other anti-histamines should be fine, but let me share a story about benedryl...
It is known to inhibit the uptake of serotonin in higher doses.
Combining two different drugs that affect serotonin increases the risk of serotonin syndrome.
This is the case with 5-HTP, St. John's Wort, SSRIs, MAOIs, and of course MDMA. I have pondered whether mushrooms or LSD could also cause this.
The stories of BAD trips from these could be blamed on serotonin cascade.
I was FINE until I combined MDMA and benedryl.
I rolled two weekends in a row, then two days in a row.
My total lifetime MDMA use was less than 30 tabs, and this was my first time breaking the rules on spacing.
After this 'mini-binge' I was feeling FINE.
Until the benedryl...
I took 100mg, or four benedryl at 48 hours post-roll.
I have NEVER felt such euphoria/dizziness from benedryl in my LIFE.
I literally felt slanted sitting in my chair...a little like being drunk.
It was actually a lot of fun. I know why it is called a deleriant.
Yes, delerious is the right word.
The very next day, everything changed.
Of course I slept in late, but within an hour or so of waking up (72 hours post roll), I experienced a sudden and dramatic shift from which I am still recovering.
Serotonin Sydnrome is also called Serotonin Toxicity.
It is normally the result of more than one medication and their interaction causing a dramatic increase in serotonin activity in the brain-stem.
This is a life-threatening condition.
It is difficult to convey the seriousness of this to others online.
Those of us that have lived through it loudly proclaim -
'You do NOT want to experience this!'
I went from sitting in my chair feeling 100% normal to having a HEART ATTACK in a period of 30 seconds. Sudden onset of tachycardia is a hallmark of SS.
Keep in mind that I was in great physical condition when this happened - I had been exercising daily for almost 2 years prior to this.
If I had been in poor health I firmly believe I would have died!!
There was a cascade of other symptoms that followed, but the tachycardia was the most sudden and shocking of them all.
I gripped the left side of my chest and I felt like my heart had STOPPED.
The physical pain in my chest cannot be put into words.
After about 90 seconds of absolute panic I realized that my heart hadn't stopped, rather it was beating insanely fast!
Sprinting a MILE would hardly produce such a heart-rate!
Try to imagine the chemical release required to instigate such a dramatic elevation of heart-rate.
How is it even possible for the nervous system to accomplish this so quickly?
Anyways, the next serious symptom was intense stomach cramping.
It felt like a bag rocks had been placed in my stomach.
The weight just kept increasing! More and more....the pain ramped up.
Eventually I could see visual swelling from the outside.
Severe burping would soon follow.
This ungodly pain in my gut started at my stomach and traveled south very slowly.
I could feel it transition ALL the way through my intestines.
My liver was definitely fighting for its life.
A single punch to the gut could have ruptured it.
Thats how bad the swelling was.
Despite the fact that I hadn't had ANY fluids, I felt like my entire body was swelling with water.
I believe my body was pulling water into my intestines to speed the process of digestion.
It was literally trying to increase the weight to force the contents through.
My face began to swell from the fluid.
During this entire process I was panicking and pacing.
I could NOT sit still. I felt that if I sat or laid down my intestines would BURST.
Not only did I want gravity to help digestion, but I also had a strange desire to keep my heart-rate up.
I knew that if I didn't use my muscles to increase circulation, my body was going to do it chemically.
I was out of breath even though I was only pacing back and forth.
The abnormal level of fluid in my gut continued to increase as the pain and swelling moved south.
I felt like it was tearing its way through me!
After an hour and a half I developed a MAJOR migraine.
This became SO intense that I couldn't stand even the slightest noise.
My ears were ringing. My brain was vibrating with pain.
This is hyponatremia, an unfortunate cause of death seen in MDMA users.
If the swelling around the brain is not controlled it can cause stroke and death.
It is normally associated with rapid intake of water, but it has been found in MDMA users that have NOT had fluids.
That would include me...72 hours after my last MDMA dose!
I can easily see how this kills people.
Even without MDMA, serotonin syndrome is considered a life-threatening but treatable condition.
It is known to cause heart-attacks and stroke.
I should also point out that during this entire process my kidneys were not functioning properly.
Normally such a level of activity and metabolism would result in a VERY full bladder.
Not this time.
It was very strange realizing that I should have peed but couldn't.
This is caused by SIADH, or sydrome of inappropriate anti-diuretic hormone.
A less severe version of this is normal during MDMA use, by the way.
How is it that all of this fluid could be swimming around my intestines and blood stream, yet my body was not allowing my kidneys to remove any of it?
There is a good chance I had a stroke and simply didn't realize it that night.
Indeed, my ability to speak was interfered with.
I could mumble incoherent words or phrases, but describing more than a symptom or two was beyond me.
I also had severe pain in one arm.
Classic signs of stroke...
Many will wonder why I didn't call 911.
How I wish I had...
Looking back I realize that my ability to reason was also interfered with, not just speech.
The level of anxiety was UNREAL.
The anxiety felt during the come-up on MDMA is NOTHING compared to this. Multiply the cortisol by ten-fold and you MIGHT get close.
I still can't believe it didn't kill me.
Here is one reason why - I intervened.
Once my migraine got really bad I began to realize what the cause was - an interaction between MDMA and benedryl.
During the first hour or so I really didn't suspect either.
Most of my symptoms were bodily, not cerebral.
And it had been 3 DAYS since my last MDMA exposure!
Later research revealed that many people have severe reactions up to a WEEK after use.
Once it progressed to swelling around the brain, I started asking myself if it could be the MDMA.
I remembered reading that liver failure is sometimes seen in severe/fatal cases. Then I thought about the abdominal swelling that began in my stomach...the relentless cramping.
Then I realized that my temperature was finally beginning to rise.
I felt the fever creeping up on me.
This was the transition point for me.
When I checked my temp was 101.
Anything over 101 is considered a SEVERE case of serotonin syndrome.
At 104 organ damage and death become real possibilities.
I immediately removed all my clothing and I began applying ice water to my face and neck.
I couldn't believe how much immediate relief it brought me.
It was SO cold, but the pressure in my head began receding within a single minute!
I decided I had to calm down and sit down.
It had been nearly two hours since it began and I knew it had to end.
I continued applying ice water for the next hour.
I had also begun sipping electrolytes, which served as a diuretic.
Slowly my kidneys came back online and I started to piss out all that extra water.
I made it through.
Looking back there were many factors involved that lead to this horrible condition.
MDMA is the primary factor, above all else.
There should be NO doubt among its worshipers.
MDMA is dangerous.
What I have described has happened to many people.
Plenty of case-studies exist that follow this cascade of events and it is not normally called Serotonin Syndrome.
The similarity between SS and the lethal cases of MDMA exposure is striking.
The two may not be uniquely separate conditions.
I had also used an enema during one of my rolls.
I know...pretty amusing.
I'm sure I'm not the only one that has had to shit while rolling.
I wouldn't have bothered if I didn't have two smoking hot women expecting me to fuck them senseless.
Re-dosing on MDMA and not spacing my rolls was a big mistake.
But remember, I felt FINE afterwards. Completely, 100% normal.
Until the goddamn BENEDRYL.
If I hadn't taken those four delerious little pills, I would probably still be rolling today.
The only other factor that I look back at is the amount of food I ate during the first two days after MDMA.
I normally don't want to eat anything for at least two days.
But not this time...I just filled myself up.
More than once.
Having a full intestinal tract undoubtedly made it MUCH worse.
If there hadn't been so much to move, it would have been a much simpler process.
But I still would have had SS.
So I beg you, all of you - DO NOT COMBINE BENEDRYL WITH MDMA.
Certainly not in higher doses.
It is NOT worth it.
I also strongly recommend against eating heavily until a few days have passed. If you are going to have a bad reaction to the MDMA you do NOT want a full gut when it happens.
The primary purpose for serotonin is intestinal motility.
My intestines nearly killed me that night.
Thanks to benedryl...
crazyoldcoot
Greenlighter
That is very strange. I have taken very large doses of MDMA with 100mg Bendryl before bed many times with no bad results. Fluoxetine is also an SSRI and has been shown to eliminate the nurotoxicity from MDMA, and MAO-B inhibitors are fine with MDMA. There was even a study that showed Diphenhydramine stopped the MDMA induced release of serotonin when given to rats. This would be contrary to what you were saying. Perhaps it was some other issue. 48 hours after a roll there is less than 1% of the MDMA left in your system. I just don't see that being the cause. Not to mention 100mg is far too low of a dose for any bad side effects! Diphenhydramine is perfectly fine with MDMA at reasonable doses. Now start taking 400-800mg and you will get issues, MDMA or not! Perhaps you just overdosed.
augustaB
Bluelighter
Claritin is half antihistamine (an older one) and half pseudoephedrine.
The pseudoephedrine might have some interaction with mdma.
In fact I often take a couple of pseudoephedrine tablets to get a more active roll.
You will find that your body temperature might be slightly higher than otherwise.
I've been taking antihistamines for over 50 years and have not really any adverse interactions with mdma.
But that said, my dreamy and distant behaviour may possibly be caused by antihistamine use.
I did have a friend who took 30 of my antihistamines once and ended up crashing his bike after seeing giraffes running next to him on the road.
The pseudoephedrine might have some interaction with mdma.
In fact I often take a couple of pseudoephedrine tablets to get a more active roll.
You will find that your body temperature might be slightly higher than otherwise.
I've been taking antihistamines for over 50 years and have not really any adverse interactions with mdma.
But that said, my dreamy and distant behaviour may possibly be caused by antihistamine use.
I did have a friend who took 30 of my antihistamines once and ended up crashing his bike after seeing giraffes running next to him on the road.
crazyoldcoot
Greenlighter
Claritin does not have pseudoephedrine, only Claritin-D does.
First Bad Comedown
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Nov 26, 2010
- Messages
- 562
The exact cause of neurotoxicity is unknown.
They DO know for certain that MDMA causes a long-lasting/permanent reorganization of the ascending axons in the serotonin network.
The axons are believed to be 'cut' from the nerve body, but how this happens is not definitively known.
The results can be catastrophic in terms of psychological symptoms, and disruptions in cerebral blood distribution have been observed to coincide with these symptoms.
Clinical recovery often takes 1-2 years, although it is accepted among scientists that re-innervation in cortical regions of the brain will forever remain less dense and highly abnormal.
It is a bit of a mystery how clinical recovery can appear so complete, but follow-up tests demonstrate a decreased neuro-endocrine response to MDMA or other sertonergic antagonists for up to 2.5 years.
Anecdotal reports indicate that tolerance or 'loss of magic' continues for much longer in some individuals.
More long-term follow up research is needed.
As far as the cause...
Dopamine substitution into the serotonin receptor was once a leading theory.
Another theory suggests that the enzymes that break down excess serotonin and remove it from the synapse are exhausted.
Then the local supply of anti-oxidants are exhausted.
Once these two events have occurred, continued serotonin activity in the receptor causes sudden oxidative stress.
This is a nice way of saying that mitochondria, or genetic material, is actually leaked out of the cellular membrane where it converts into hydrogen peroxide!
The damage to the receptor site may cause a permanent change in gene expression.
The distant cell body is resilient to damage - only repeated extreme doses of MDMA can cause apoptosis of the cell body, or death from increased internal metabolic processes.
It is the axons that are destroyed, in particular the thin/fiber-like axons that are most distant from the brain-stem and raphe nuclei.
MDMA targets the PFC or prefrontal cortex, which is believed to be the home of our highest cognitive and emotional capabilities.
It is also the most distant brain region from the brain stem.
The same thing that makes MDMA a wonderful and life-changing experience also makes it extremely dangerous.
Fluoxetine only eliminates neurotoxicity if taken prior to MDMA exposure.
It may offer limited protection if administered shortly after.
This is caused by competition for the SERT receptors - when an SSRI with a higher affinity is binding to the receptor, MDMA cannot.
This is also why it ruins the roll, or decreases the subjective effects of MDMA.
Diphenihydramine HCL inhibits the re-uptake of already present serotonin at high doses.
This is very important to understand - the excess serotonin caused by MDMA needs to be metabolized and removed.
You must allow your brain to do this.
By taking benedryl in high doses you are interfering with this process.
MAO-Bs may be safe, but MAOIs are NOT.
Perhaps benedryl would offer some protection if taken PRIOR to MDMA exposure - please provide a link to your study showing neuro-protection.
It would be appreciated.
MDMA, like other stimulants, is metabolized quickly.
But the metabolites remain in the body for 3-5 days.
Another theory for neurotoxicity focuses on the metabolites - perhaps this explains why repeated rolling multiple days in a row carries the greatest risk.
Again, the exact mechanism of toxicity is not definitively understood.
Maybe if I had taken benedryl on the same night as MDMA it would have been fine.
If this is the case, it might offer support for the metabolite theory.
But until there is more data, I strongly recommend you heed my warning.
I have NO doubt whatsoever about the role of benedryl in my near-death interaction with MDMA.
Even if it was not the direct cause, it multiplied the experience severely.
By the way, check with a health-care worker in a local ER.
Ask about benedryl and its 'safety'.
I too thought it was one of the 'safe' OTC meds.
Both of us are wrong.
100mg is a HIGH dose, believing otherwise is crazy.
25mg is enough to put most people to fucking SLEEP for 8-10 hours.
Yes, taking 400-800mg has resulted in some retarded and frightening reactions which can be found on BL.
The fear and delirium is astounding to hear about.
Why, then, would you assume 100mg to be 'safe'?
Combine the two at your own risk.
I would suggest dropping the benedryl and trying piracetam and anti-oxidants for post-loading.
For God's sake, stop looking for alternate explanations for my bad reaction and take my word on this one - benedryl is NOT to be combined with MDMA!
Of course, not re-dosing MDMA and spacing your rolls is the single most effective strategy for avoiding a bad reaction.
Research clearly shows that re-dosing and rolling multiple days in a row causes the MOST damage.
Good luck.
They DO know for certain that MDMA causes a long-lasting/permanent reorganization of the ascending axons in the serotonin network.
The axons are believed to be 'cut' from the nerve body, but how this happens is not definitively known.
The results can be catastrophic in terms of psychological symptoms, and disruptions in cerebral blood distribution have been observed to coincide with these symptoms.
Clinical recovery often takes 1-2 years, although it is accepted among scientists that re-innervation in cortical regions of the brain will forever remain less dense and highly abnormal.
It is a bit of a mystery how clinical recovery can appear so complete, but follow-up tests demonstrate a decreased neuro-endocrine response to MDMA or other sertonergic antagonists for up to 2.5 years.
Anecdotal reports indicate that tolerance or 'loss of magic' continues for much longer in some individuals.
More long-term follow up research is needed.
As far as the cause...
Dopamine substitution into the serotonin receptor was once a leading theory.
Another theory suggests that the enzymes that break down excess serotonin and remove it from the synapse are exhausted.
Then the local supply of anti-oxidants are exhausted.
Once these two events have occurred, continued serotonin activity in the receptor causes sudden oxidative stress.
This is a nice way of saying that mitochondria, or genetic material, is actually leaked out of the cellular membrane where it converts into hydrogen peroxide!
The damage to the receptor site may cause a permanent change in gene expression.
The distant cell body is resilient to damage - only repeated extreme doses of MDMA can cause apoptosis of the cell body, or death from increased internal metabolic processes.
It is the axons that are destroyed, in particular the thin/fiber-like axons that are most distant from the brain-stem and raphe nuclei.
MDMA targets the PFC or prefrontal cortex, which is believed to be the home of our highest cognitive and emotional capabilities.
It is also the most distant brain region from the brain stem.
The same thing that makes MDMA a wonderful and life-changing experience also makes it extremely dangerous.
Fluoxetine only eliminates neurotoxicity if taken prior to MDMA exposure.
It may offer limited protection if administered shortly after.
This is caused by competition for the SERT receptors - when an SSRI with a higher affinity is binding to the receptor, MDMA cannot.
This is also why it ruins the roll, or decreases the subjective effects of MDMA.
Diphenihydramine HCL inhibits the re-uptake of already present serotonin at high doses.
This is very important to understand - the excess serotonin caused by MDMA needs to be metabolized and removed.
You must allow your brain to do this.
By taking benedryl in high doses you are interfering with this process.
MAO-Bs may be safe, but MAOIs are NOT.
Perhaps benedryl would offer some protection if taken PRIOR to MDMA exposure - please provide a link to your study showing neuro-protection.
It would be appreciated.
MDMA, like other stimulants, is metabolized quickly.
But the metabolites remain in the body for 3-5 days.
Another theory for neurotoxicity focuses on the metabolites - perhaps this explains why repeated rolling multiple days in a row carries the greatest risk.
Again, the exact mechanism of toxicity is not definitively understood.
Maybe if I had taken benedryl on the same night as MDMA it would have been fine.
If this is the case, it might offer support for the metabolite theory.
But until there is more data, I strongly recommend you heed my warning.
I have NO doubt whatsoever about the role of benedryl in my near-death interaction with MDMA.
Even if it was not the direct cause, it multiplied the experience severely.
By the way, check with a health-care worker in a local ER.
Ask about benedryl and its 'safety'.
I too thought it was one of the 'safe' OTC meds.
Both of us are wrong.
100mg is a HIGH dose, believing otherwise is crazy.
25mg is enough to put most people to fucking SLEEP for 8-10 hours.
Yes, taking 400-800mg has resulted in some retarded and frightening reactions which can be found on BL.
The fear and delirium is astounding to hear about.
Why, then, would you assume 100mg to be 'safe'?
Combine the two at your own risk.
I would suggest dropping the benedryl and trying piracetam and anti-oxidants for post-loading.
For God's sake, stop looking for alternate explanations for my bad reaction and take my word on this one - benedryl is NOT to be combined with MDMA!
Of course, not re-dosing MDMA and spacing your rolls is the single most effective strategy for avoiding a bad reaction.
Research clearly shows that re-dosing and rolling multiple days in a row causes the MOST damage.
Good luck.
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crazyoldcoot
Greenlighter
100mg is not too high a dose for most people and 25mg is in no way enough for the average person to sleep for 8 hours! Who are you talking to? Go on drugs.com or the FDA's website and it says that up to 100mg per dose not to exceed 400mg in 24 hours is perfectly safe. If you are sensitive to it then your mileage may vary, but for the average person that is fine. I am not using it for neuroprotective properties, I am using it to stop the MDMA induced release of serotonin so I can sleep. Taking melatonin with it makes sleeping like a baby easy!
For neuroprotection it is widely known that Vitamin-C, Acetyl-L Carnitine, and R-Alpha Lipoic Acid offer nueroprotection from the oxidative stress caused by MDMA. Also, magnesium should be used as an NMDA antagonist to regulate your calcium channels and to prevent tolerance. We are currently having a discussion in another thread about MDMA's neurotoxicity and how it could all be coming from it's first pass metabolism in the liver. Since MDMA injected directly into the brain does not cause neurotoxicity, it has to be from one or all of it's first pass metabolites in the liver being oxidized in the brain by MAO-B. I am currently trying to figure out what drug to use to inhibit the CYP450 enzyme(s) that cause that first pass metabolism.
Piracetam is amazing for potentiation and post loading. My regimen works very well:
Preload- Magnesium, grape seed, milk thistle, ACLAR, ALA, fish oil, flaxseed oil, B complex, vitamin C
During- ACLAR (every 30 min), ALA (every 30min), inositol, magnesium, ginko, piracetam, choline, vitamin c
Post- 5-HTP, EGCG, inositol, piracetam, choline, magnesium, melatonin, cats claw, and 100mg diphenydramine before bed
0 comedown, 0 scatter brain, 0 depression. That is if you keep your MDMA doses within reason. If you go crazy there is not much supplementation can do! Sorry to hear about your bad experience with diphenhydramine, but for the average person there will be no issues at 100mg at D+7hours.
For neuroprotection it is widely known that Vitamin-C, Acetyl-L Carnitine, and R-Alpha Lipoic Acid offer nueroprotection from the oxidative stress caused by MDMA. Also, magnesium should be used as an NMDA antagonist to regulate your calcium channels and to prevent tolerance. We are currently having a discussion in another thread about MDMA's neurotoxicity and how it could all be coming from it's first pass metabolism in the liver. Since MDMA injected directly into the brain does not cause neurotoxicity, it has to be from one or all of it's first pass metabolites in the liver being oxidized in the brain by MAO-B. I am currently trying to figure out what drug to use to inhibit the CYP450 enzyme(s) that cause that first pass metabolism.
Piracetam is amazing for potentiation and post loading. My regimen works very well:
Preload- Magnesium, grape seed, milk thistle, ACLAR, ALA, fish oil, flaxseed oil, B complex, vitamin C
During- ACLAR (every 30 min), ALA (every 30min), inositol, magnesium, ginko, piracetam, choline, vitamin c
Post- 5-HTP, EGCG, inositol, piracetam, choline, magnesium, melatonin, cats claw, and 100mg diphenydramine before bed
0 comedown, 0 scatter brain, 0 depression. That is if you keep your MDMA doses within reason. If you go crazy there is not much supplementation can do! Sorry to hear about your bad experience with diphenhydramine, but for the average person there will be no issues at 100mg at D+7hours.
augustaB
Bluelighter
I live in Europe and all the Claritin here contains pseudoephedrine, my mistake I guess.
crazyoldcoot
Greenlighter
I don't mean to sound like an ass, but Claritin in Europe is the exact same as in the US. Loratadine-Hcl. Claritin-D is Loratadine-Hcl and Pseudoephedrine.
Treefa
Bluelighter
Doubt it bro...
Im scripted just about every allergy med ther is, but i have to say they dont work for shit compared to weed...thats right weed opens my nose right up..not running, but not dry, just good
Im scripted just about every allergy med ther is, but i have to say they dont work for shit compared to weed...thats right weed opens my nose right up..not running, but not dry, just good
