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Opioids Hospital Hydromorphone solution: very dilute - how to make more concentrate?

A

ActiqAnnie

Bluelighter
Joined
Jan 1, 2011
Messages
73
Location
New York, NY
So upon my last hospital discharge I returned home clutching two partially spent IV bags of the Dilaudid solution from my pain pump. Jackpot! It's sterile, it's free from pill sludge, etc. Only one problem: the solution is 1mg hydromorphone to 10ml water. Very dilute. For my level of tolerance, I need to IV at least 2mg...but that's two full syringes and with the 28g needles I have, it's impossible to unload a full syringe at one time. I used to have a PICC line, so it was sooo easy to push anything, but now I have to land a hit. Is there any way to concentrate the solution?
 
I don't know what temperature hydromorphone degrades at but if you simmered it on the stove that should do the trick.
 
I thought of that. I think it does degrade though...and of course it totally kicks the sterility to hell. But yeah, anyone know if it would evaporate/vaporize/degrade if heated?
 
suessmayr said:
How did you actually get those bags? Did you nick them?
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Nope, the partially spent bags were replaced with new, full ones daily. Most of the nurses threw the used bags out at the nursing station or in the "sharps" container. This one nurse just left them on a pile of newspapers I had that were getting thrown out. So when she left the room, I snagged 'em.
 
you could always get a 3ml syringe with a tip. I have a couple 3ml syringes with 27g leur lock tips. If you don't want to take it in two shots I'd suggest doing the same
 
comatoserct said:
you could always get a 3ml syringe with a tip. I have a couple 3ml syringes with 27g leur lock tips. If you don't want to take it in two shots I'd suggest doing the same
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The thing is, to get 2mg of hydromorphone, I need a volume of 20ml. I presume you're suggesting finding a larger syringe, yes? But it would have to be at least 20ml...Or do your 3ml syringes enable reloading?
 
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I'm guessing it's NaCl solution that the hydro is mixed with? If not do not push 20ml straight into a vein otherwise you probably end up back in the hospital.
 
Is there any way to concentrate the solution?
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The simplest option is to evaporate it under low heat or even just at room temperature in an evaporation pan. If you have the equipment you could put it under vaccuum to speed it up but I doubt that you do.
 
amapola said:
The simplest option is to evaporate it under low heat or even just at room temperature in an evaporation pan. If you have the equipment you could put it under vaccuum to speed it up but I doubt that you do.
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As soon as you mess with it tho you wouldn't ever know exactly what you have could be 2mg could be twenty and that's a pretty big risk am I wrong?
 
BHannon24 said:
As soon as you mess with it tho you wouldn't ever know exactly what you have could be 2mg could be twenty and that's a pretty big risk am I wrong?
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If you take 20ml (so 2mg known active ingredient) and evaporate it down, theres no way it will ever contain more than 2mg total of hydromorphone, just less water.
 
As soon as you mess with it tho you wouldn't ever know exactly what you have could be 2mg could be twenty and that's a pretty big risk am I wrong?
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The concentration will be easily determined via ratios because the mass of the solute doesn't change.

C1V1=C2V2

Even if you did get some degradation it would just result in slightly lower doses. There is no way more hydromorphone can be added.
 
I wasn't saying more would be added but once taken out of the controlled bag wouldn't it be possible when you pull it up in a syringe you could get 4mgs pure and then the next get .4 pure like without the water to keep I. Mixed. Kinda like with Fent gel you never know exact mg of what your dosing?
COuld be way off on this and surprisingly I was really good in chem throughout highschool and college
 
The solute will be evenly distributed throughout the solvent.

Adding fent gel into water only some of it dissolve/extracts and a lot of stuff stays in the gel which just floats in the water. Since you can't be sure everything dissolve you can't be sure of the strength.

In this case if you start with 100ml of 0.1mg/ml hydromorphone solution you can safely evaporate it down to 50ml of 0.2mg/ml hydromorphone solution or 10ml of 1mg/ml hydromorphone solution.

edit:
If you get down so low that the solution becomes saturated and hydromorphone salt start precipitating out then you have to be careful of what you are doing. However hydromorphone salts are very soluble so you would have to be dealing with tiny amounts of water or huge masses of hydromorphone.
 
amapola said:
The solute will be evenly distributed throughout the solvent.

Adding fent gel into water only some of it dissolve/extracts and a lot of stuff stays in the gel which just floats in the water. Since you can't be sure everything dissolve you can't be sure of the strength.

In this case if you start with 100ml of 0.1mg/ml hydromorphone solution you can safely evaporate it down to 50ml of 0.2mg/ml hydromorphone solution or 10ml of 1mg/ml hydromorphone solution.
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THank you man. Appreciated.
 
No problem. When dealing with substances like hydromorphone you have to be ridiculously careful. Even if you have all the ideal chemical knowledge down pat you could still miss a decimal place or have some other factor come into play which you didn't account for and you can't afford to make even one mistake.
 
amapola said:
No problem. When dealing with substances like hydromorphone you have to be ridiculously careful. Even if you have all the ideal chemical knowledge down pat you could still miss a decimal place or have some other factor come into play which you didn't account for and you can't afford to make even one mistake.
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No doubt about that. I am glad that I at least don't inject so I don't gotta worry to much about it
 
amapola said:
The simplest option is to evaporate it under low heat or even just at room temperature in an evaporation pan. If you have the equipment you could put it under vaccuum to speed it up but I doubt that you do.
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Thanks to everyone for their help. It's an NaCl solution and while I don't have terribly sophisticated desiccation technology, I do have a vintage steel and glass desiccation cabinet that I use when preparing specimen slides. So maybe that would work?

Presumably, kick-ass 1940's vintage medical furniture or not, this will render the now sterile solution sterile no more. Micron filter final step?

Thanks again!
 
Haha you actually have a bloody desiccation jar! That is hilarious and yes it would work most excellently (assuming it's a dehumidifier of sorts which I believe is correct?). The chances are that the solution you end up with after just the reduction would still be cleaner than any micron filtered pill/cut street powder, however micron filtering is indeed still highly recommend.
 
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