Chronic ketamine use kills bladder cells

7zark7

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[size=+1]Chronic ketamine use kills bladder cells[/size]
15 June 2011 by Shaoni Bhattacharya
Magazine issue 2817


THERE is growing evidence that chronic use of the recreational drug ketamine is linked with severe bladder problems. The findings may also have implications for the drug's use as an antidepressant.

Used safely as a medical anaesthetic and analgesic for decades, ketamine has also risen in popularity as a recreational drug. The first case of severe bladder problems linked with ketamine use was documented in 2007, but little is known about the extent or cause of the problem.

Now a group of surgeons and scientists have raised the alarm in a review calling for more investigation (BJU International, DOI: 10.1111/j.1464-410X.2010.10031.x). They highlight effects such as incontinence and bladder shrinkage, as well as damage to the kidneys and ureter in people using ketamine frequently.

"It has a major impact on users such that they can be incontinent or have enormous pain," says Dan Wood, a consultant urologist at University College London Hospitals, who led the review. He has seen 20 chronic ketamine users with urinary problems in the last three years and had to remove four patients' bladders.

The review suggests that heavy users are more likely to suffer symptoms, and about 20 per cent of people who have taken high doses of ketamine several times a week over months to years have experienced urinary tract problems.


Full article: http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg21028174.100-chronic-ketamine-use-kills-bladder-cells.html
 
Not sure how the trouble with the 'ol water works problem impacts the anti-depressant use of it. From what I've read in previous articles, it is useful even at sub-threshold doses as an anti-depressant. This is the other end of the spectrum to "chronic use".
 
Not sure how the trouble with the 'ol water works problem impacts the anti-depressant use of it. From what I've read in previous articles, it is useful even at sub-threshold doses as an anti-depressant. This is the other end of the spectrum to "chronic use".

That's what I was wondering… the only thing I could think of is the concern over long-term, repeated doses that would probably come with using it as an antidepressant.

I would be interested to know how big a dose is required to kill bladder cells what some of interaction is required to do so - as well as the frequency.

I have always said, that you should keep drinking fluids while using ketamine. I assume this would 'flush out' the bladder at more regular intervals, possibly meaning that the cells are exposed to the drug for less time, minimising any damage.
 
but what is considered heavy use?

Is going through a gram a month (in 300mg bouts throughout a whole night out say) Too much?

Or are they talking about users who would easily go through a gram in one weekend? or 2?


I read before about accounts of people having there bladders removed. Particularly female users?
 
SWIPM (someone who is probably me) used Ketamine for 2 years every day, probably averaging a couple grams a day with some much heavier periods.

Bladder is fine, now a year later having abstained from use. The psychological addiction had become devastating and it was time for drastic changes. But, the bladder works as it always did.

Some people I know who've used it less have had some urination issues, but these seem to have mended over time after quitting the ketamine.

My impression is that it helps to stay hydrated, and also spit out the drip if you sniffed it. And some people are more resilient than others.
 
SWIPM (someone who is probably me) used Ketamine for 2 years every day, probably averaging a couple grams a day with some much heavier periods.

Bladder is fine, now a year later having abstained from use. The psychological addiction had become devastating and it was time for drastic changes. But, the bladder works as it always did.

Some people I know who've used it less have had some urination issues, but these seem to have mended over time after quitting the ketamine.

My impression is that it helps to stay hydrated, and also spit out the drip if you sniffed it. And some people are more resilient than others.

Whoah a couple of grams? i wouldnt even use a whole gram in less than a month .
Yeah i also read about spitting the drip out (However, i have found drinking orange juice whilst on k, you dont realise the drip at all. So what are you meant to do there lol)
 
guys i can talk from my own experiences and say, first and foremost, everyone is different.

To start I'd do at least 1.5g to amounts passing 3.5g. To alot of you this sounds crazy though to some of you its the norm and to those of you who its the norm are the ones who have to worry.

With this in mind my gf used to do a little less ketamine then i did and has yet to have any bladder problems or stomach pains etc. Now i on the other hand have had INTENSE stomach pains and I have bladder problems galore. I've known 2 girls now who have had to have surgey done to there bladder from ketamine and i know for sure that one of them still uses

On a positive note a lot of the problems go away when you stop using but i still have trouble pissing and i haven't touched k in months.

There is definatly some sort of a biologocal difference in who gets affected more seriously from use. IME girls get hit stronger though its not a rule of thumb and I WAY worse off than my gf and I've done only a bit more

Whoah a couple of grams? i wouldnt even use a whole gram in less than a month .
Yeah i also read about spitting the drip out (However, i have found drinking orange juice whilst on k, you dont realise the drip at all. So what are you meant to do there lol)
drinking citursy shit like orange juice (or pretty much any juice) only aggravates and k pains you have. I've read that the whole drips thing is just non sense though im not sure about that. The whole juice thing im sure of though.
 
well i did about 300mg in one whole night throughout say 12 hours.
This is the only time ive ever got K cramps lol.

So if every other time i use, i dont even get k cramps i should be okay?

I dont k hole often. Its a fun experience but i can settle with it just being a bit fuzzy and the music sounding deeper ...

Yes your right about the citrus.. Arghh it didnt work that time round lol.. Argghh was nearly sick lol
 
well i did about 300mg in one whole night throughout say 12 hours.
This is the only time ive ever got K cramps lol.

So if every other time i use, i dont even get k cramps i should be okay?

I dont k hole often. Its a fun experience but i can settle with it just being a bit fuzzy and the music sounding deeper ...

Yes your right about the citrus.. Arghh it didnt work that time round lol.. Argghh was nearly sick lol
If your getting K cramps from only 300mg throughout 12 hours i would recommend not doing K period. That's an insanely small amount and considering you wouldnt go through a gram in a month i cant imagine you having done to much damage to your system already.

Maybe your product is cut I really dont know but im pretty sure your not supposed to get k cramps from just experimenting with the drug. K cramps is one of those long term/heavy users type thing. Are you sure it was K cramps and your stomach just didnt hurt a little bit? lol iunno maybe somebody else can pipe in on this but i dont think ive heard of somene gettings k cramps doing that small amount
 
well I hope what youre saying is true^^ lol

because I had a dream where my identical twin said,

"I went through a decent amount (ie probably 5000-1000mg) of very pure k over the course of a few months, and then a month later switched to methoxetamine, and started using almost daily,.... it's been about 4 months now and I've experienced no bladder problems. I did actually have thin bladder lining BEFORE ever using k or methox, which caused me to piss blood a few times and have a seizure... but like i said that was all before ever using k and i haven't had any problems with my yellow fountain since I started binging on the shit."
 
Just did a little research:

Wikipedia:

Methoxetamine is a product of rational drug design: its N-ethyl group was chosen to increase potency, lessening the risk of interstitial cystitis that can result from the accumulation of ketamine-like metabolites in the urinary bladder.

My logic tells me that methoxetamine would still be damaging to a user's urinary bladder, in the same way k is (from the accumulation of metabolites...); however since it's more potent than ketamine the user would probably want to use less at a time and therefore less over time and therefore fewer metabolites would be able to build up in his or her bladder.

So, I guess they didn't design it to be harmless to the bladder... just less damaging than ketamine.



And we must remember that a chronic K user could have an addiction and/or tolerance, and would be doing a larger amount than an occasional user...

Be careful all of you veterinarians and kitties!
 
Oh, and I doubt the people or persons who created Methoxetamine were concerned with lessening risk of bladder problems... they probably were concerned with making an extra-potent version of k that isn't illegal.... coincidence in my eyes
 
you guys ever see that george carlin special where at the end he shows pictures of his male dog humping his male cat because the cats penis had to be cut off because they fed it only dry cat food and it crystallized inside? This sounds similar.
 
Previous past experiences with chronic ketamine abuse implore myself to agree. I have had severe stomach cramps and towards the end of binges I had the unfortunate event of passing blood in the urine with quite severe pain present. I didnt seek medical advice but stopped my use of ketamine which fortunately resolved my physical state. I now will only do ketamine on occasion as I have no.doubt ketamine physical damages my health. Not to mention neurotoxic damage as I noticed a marked negative impact on my intelligence with daily usage lasting around 1 month + making me speculate as to wether onley lesions can develop with chronic use.
 
Previous past experiences with chronic ketamine abuse implore myself to agree. I have had severe stomach cramps and towards the end of binges I had the unfortunate event of passing blood in the urine with quite severe pain present. I didnt seek medical advice but stopped my use of ketamine which fortunately resolved my physical state. I now will only use ketamine on a strictly occasionaly basis. I have no.doubt ketamine physical damages my health with periods of chronic usage. Not to mention neurotoxic damage as I noticed a marked negative impact on my intelligence with daily usage lasting around 1 month making me speculate as to wether onley lesions (peremanent neurotoxic damage) can develop with prolonged chronic use.
 
A gram a month is nothing to worry about, you probably wont notice any ill effects. Now i've done ALOT, like using at least 7 grams in a weekend which resulted in severe, severe stomach pains/cramps. Ended up in the hospital getting shot up with morphine and ativan. But i did start to notice my bladder was shrinking, i had to pee more often and it kinda hurt but i never got any infections. But as far as my weekly usage i would probably go through about 10 grams in a week, and im not even kidding, your tolerance builds quickly and it doesnt go away which sucks cause i miss the days where i was able to have a gram last me a weekend.

Ive doing K daily for probably 3-4 months but only sarted using a year ago but now im taking a little break because i can feel it starting to effect my body, just feeling tired and wore out.

Also my good friend has been doing it wayyy longer than me, i'd say at 5+ years of almost daily use and he gets k-pains constantly sometimes having them for like a week straight. And regarding Olney's lesions i'd say he's still pretty smart, so i doubt he has brain damage.
 
Stomach cramps ≠ bladder problems. As the article says, we are talking about large, repeated doses. I guess stomach cramps are due to changes in stomach acid levels and/or not eating or drinking enough. Also, kidney-area pain is often due to dehydration.
 
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