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Lysergamides The Big & Dandy Non-LSD Ergoloids Blotter Thread

I know the Blue Shivas with the red psychedelic (Euro Hits) print are non-lsd. These hit are nice and last a solid 10+ hrs, fooled me for sure.
A friend of mine was caught with three tabs of them and when the lab results came back, they were free of LSD or any other illegal substances. So LSD free tabs are floating all over the world, lets just hope they are as safe as LSD. I'm sure almost all of us have been eating them.
 
I went yesterday to the Amsterdam Testservice (the one near Artis) where you can test any drug, and made some questions about blotters and their results. The guy working there told that since he is working (pretty much since forever) that only one time there was a pill with LSD and 2C-B (nice combo isnt it? ehehe) and all the blotters always had LSD. Anyway, I dont think there's a lot of people testing their blotters frequently/recently, since lets do some math, it costs an average of 3.5E/tab acid (usual for a25sheet is 70E over here), and labtest costs 12.5E in the testcenter. I also think the labtests depends on the chemist at end like what happened with NMR from hoffman ohm 2008 that some say is LS? ( > LSB) other say its actually LSD..

My personal opinion is still the same, the most recent blotters popping arent LSD and are some ergoloid, the effects dont fool me. :)
 
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LucyLovesMolly said:
I'm sure almost all of us have been eating them.
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I'm not sure. I know what LSD feels like and I've had LSD every time.

Just mentioning the elephant in the room for a second, why would you go to the trouble of faking a drug you can only sell for a fiver a blotter anyway? Is it really worth the effort? You would make far more money by claiming "It's a new form of LSD - give me a tenner for it".
 
^ true at the bottom of the pyramid, but not the top or the middle.
 
Why not lay a legal chemical that's so close to lsd most can't tell? Sounds like a nice way to stay out of trouble if you ask me.

I'm not trying to say lsd isn't getting laid. Just that there is something else on blotters at times, very similar to lsd.
 
I didn't have time to read this entire thread, just the first several pages.

Anyway, SKL obviously knows what he's talking about. I also know what he's talking about.

The Hoffman print that was tested was not only widely circulated, but numerous other prints have been released by presumably the same European organization and I believe these are the most widely distributed perforated prints in the world.

They are easy to recognize:
Hits are 1cm squared, not 1/4" squared. All this tells you is that it's European, except I believe the majority of what's coming from Europe to America (especially in the form of artwork blotter) is this same LSP/LSB stuff.
The hits have some taste to them. Either slightly bitter or soapy. Not at all bitter like DOx, quite mild in comparison. But I have *never* eaten LSD-25 on blotter that had anything but a mild metallic taste.
They are commonly marketed as "150ug" "180ug" "200ug" or more. This is bullshit. The only way they can get away with these claims is because they are using a chemical which is more visual than LSD-25.

There is some of this available through American distribution channels as well, as this crystal LSx is certainly available to someone with the connections and money... and of course it is cheaper than LSD-25, especially American LSD-25 which is getting pretty expensive.

Your best bet if you want LSD-25 is to buy "family acid" and probably White on White unperfed or other blotter which is obviously not mass produced and made to look super fancy for huge distribution and export.
 
^ very good post, thank you. Yes those were and are VERY widely distributed. By someone with obviously ALOT of resources. Meaning it stands to reason the same outfit is probably still pumping it out. Meaning non-LSD-as-LSD blotter are clearly NOT "vanishingly rare." LOL. Wishfull thinking, IMO.

WARNING: SNIDE SARCASTIC REMARK FOLLOWS; I MAKE THEM BECAUSE THEY AMUSE ME AND THIS IS 100% MY RIGHT ON A PUBLIC DISCUSSION FORUM. OH MY GOD, I HAVE A LITTLE ATTITUDE, OH NO. THOSE WITH SENSITIVE, SCOLDING DISPOSITIONS ARE ADVISED TO STOP READING NOW. THANK YOU.

I dont know why certain people have an obsession with chanting "99.99999% of it is real LSD" over and over like a holy mantra. A friend and I have a hypothesis that they read reports of highly dosed hits of real, clean LSD from a long time ago, get petulant they never had any like that, and do that to rationalize to themselves that they HAVE had real LSD when maybe they havent. (Yes this comment is a deliberate exaggeration; May even be a troll for humorous over reactions.)
 
Non-lsd ergoloids have been circulated before, or at least Nick Sand, Leonard Pickard, & a couple other relatively well known lsd chemists have produced distribution sized amounts. However, this was far from the bulk of what they did, according to them anyway. I don't think anyone has said that only 0.000001% of LSD blotters contain non-LSD ergoloids. No one knows. And if a lab or chemist is producing such things, they would probably produce a large amount... capitalism & all that. But if i were a betting man, i'd put my money on them producing mostly LSD, because that's what lsd chemists have typically done in the past. Sure, if they get ahold of some interesting precursors, end up with some extra time & $$ to play around with, etc i'm sure they experiment a bit. Kind of an inherent personality trait in psychedelic chemists. But to suggest mass mystery ergoloid distribution happens regularly & frequently isn't really supportable based on the available data.

also, from the rules in the PD index:
Respect The Opinions of Others - Opinions are just that. When there is no factual information on a subject either way, feel free to argue your point, but do so in a respectful manner.
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play nice
 
Then there are also multiple EU sources currently selling blotters via web sites that contain one of several optional RCs. One even says blotters with 5mg 5-Meo-MIPT. I thought people here were arguing that even 1mg of anything was impossible on blotter, so apparently not. There are probably alot of things that are psychoactive at 5mg, so....

Perhaps someone should procure some of those varieties and at least post images of the blotters so that people are not snookered by others into buying them as LSD?

And so far as the percentage of non-lsd whatever on the market: THERE IS NO WAY TO TELL. Going by what people have submitted to labs, you have problems of (1) self-selection bias, no consistency and controls on the methods of testing, and (3) totally unscientific sample of what is "out there", so NO statistically valid conclusions are possible.

Then there is this maxim of the scientific method that people in this discussion often seem to totally overlook: "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence." Just because you dont have numbers from whoever showing that 25% of blotters they have seen are NOT LSD, this does NOT mean that that is not in fact the case. "Whoever"'s numbers don't mean diddlysquat. Just one teeny tiny statistically pointless unscientific sampling of an immense global market landscape, from which no overarching conclusions can be drawn. Just a fact, gentlemen.
 
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Oh there are indeed non-lsd blotters that go around.

I don't think its very common, but if you don't believe it happens you are very foolish.

The community is just so annoying in some ways... go ahead make some non-LSD blotters I think that is sweet... but selling them as LSD? That's just fucking low.
 
sit said:
It would surely be a great service to all if people with access to the Dutch testing facilities would be prepared systematically to post results in a dedicated thread. I'm never clear if there is some impediment to them doing so that I'm not aware of...
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They've stated that without a proper accompanied message the data would be meaningless. They've also stated that the market is just to small in the Netherlands for them to spend much time on it, as in writing articles, analysis etc.

In 2011 they received 37 samples so far, all of which tested positive for LSD. Dosages averaged between 10 and 150 ug. Each year they receive between 40 and 90 samples. Taken from a thread on a Dutch forum, 1 reported test result for the female Avatar blotter with yellow border put it at 150ug, another reported test result was for the Ganesha/Alex Grey blotter which was 50ug. These are both tested in 2011. I'd like to remind everyone that blotter print isn't conclusive, it could be a different batch or even a different source with the same print.
 
I myself have made 5-meo-mipt blotters that hold 5mg each. It's super easy, the paper does hold it. They aren't 1cm or 1/4th" though, they are 1x1".
 
^Finally some actual information.

So is THAT enough for people to quit citing these totally unscientific, microscopically small sample sets from the "Official LSD Testing Agency" in the Netherlands as some silly "proof" that non-LSD is "vanishingly small"?

Lets say they test 50-100 blotters per year. That is NOT enough data for one country let alone the entire PLANET to be using their results as any sort of "proof", and to cast aspersions upon the evaluations/opinions of other people.

I am still quite sure I have had blotters that felt super-dirty and it was NOT my "set/setting" damnit. Lets say the blotter actually contained only 25mcg of LSD plus 2-3mg of some other related compound that created a nasty bodyload, or deliberate adulterant by a dishonest profiteering maker. That sounds very within the realm of possibility, and no one can prove otherwise. I say TRUST the reports of the people's personal experiences, it is rude and unjustified to proclaim these testimonies to be faulty from afar... And dont put alot of stock in all sorts of hypothetical theories and itty bitty teeny tiny unscientific sample sets of a few dozen hits from whichever agency. Dirty/non-LSD stuff *IS* fairly abundant. Just look at the market forces... there is ample economic motivation to cheat people with low grade cheap dirty crap and get paid $10 for something that cost you 2 cents to buy. Like Duh. To keep saying over and over that this assesment is necessarily wrong and continually assert that the vast majority of acid is real pure LSD just reveals some sort of bias, IMO, I wont speculate on why.
 
DwayneHoover said:
^Finally some actual information.

So is THAT enough for people to quit citing these totally unscientific, microscopically small sample sets from the "Official LSD Testing Agency" in the Netherlands as some silly "proof" that non-LSD is "vanishingly small"?

Lets say they test 50-100 blotters per year. That is NOT enough data for one country let alone the entire PLANET to be using their results as any sort of "proof", and to cast aspersions upon the evaluations/opinions of other people.
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It should be noted that some users will buy in bulk and sent 1 or 2 samples for testing. If all 37 samples are unique we could make the assumption that there are at least 37*900 hits (1 page of LSD) = 33.300 hits of legitimate LSD. Since it can be safely assumed that 1 page of LSD will be either dunked in a bath of LSD or dropped by hand, the only possibility would be inactive blotters or dosages that differ from the tested sample. Even if half of the samples are unique we'd still have 16.650 hits of confirmed LSD.

I would even go as far as make a daring speculation. If I take the Ganesha/Alex Grey print as example, several reports from users in the US, Canada and Europe have noted the strange perfume/soap like taste. Some of them even noted as them being from Europe or Amsterdam in specific. On the basis of this I would dare to speculate that multiple pages of the Ganesha/Alex Grey print that are floating around the globe are in fact legit LSD as confirmed by the test result in my previous post. If we assumed 5 pages where produced from the same batch that would result in (5*900)*37 = 166.500 hits or if we assume half are unique 83.250 hits.

In my opinion this is still better evidence than 1 GC/MS analysis and a whole bunch of subjective experiences. These subjective experiences in general consist of many possible confounding variables and are in my opinion not reliable indicators. Perhaps some of them can be reliable given the right expertise of the user in regards of LSD and psychedelic usage, however discerning them from the bulk of reports is not an easy task.

Let me be clear I'm absolutely not stating that there aren't blotters floating around with other compounds on them.
 
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Dith said:
I would even go as far as make a daring speculation. If I take the Ganesha/Alex Grey print as example, several reports from users in the US, Canada and Europe have noted the strange perfume/soap like taste. Some of them even noted as them being from Europe or Amsterdam in specific. On the basis of this I would dare to speculate that multiple pages of the Ganesha/Alex Grey print that are floating around the globe are in fact legit LSD as confirmed by the test result in my previous post. If we assumed 5 pages where produced from the same batch that would result in (5*900)*37 = 166.500 hits or if we assume half are unique 83.250 hits.
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The sole reason for the taste on these blotter is the inky blotter. If anyone denies this I suspect they haven't seen the tabs, they look like the picture has been painted on twice.
 
Dith said:
They've stated that without a proper accompanied message the data would be meaningless. They've also stated that the market is just to small in the Netherlands for them to spend much time on it, as in writing articles, analysis etc.

In 2011 they received 37 samples so far, all of which tested positive for LSD. Dosages averaged between 10 and 150 ug. Each year they receive between 40 and 90 samples. Taken from a thread on a Dutch forum, 1 reported test result for the female Avatar blotter with yellow border put it at 150ug, another reported test result was for the Ganesha/Alex Grey blotter which was 50ug. These are both tested in 2011. I'd like to remind everyone that blotter print isn't conclusive, it could be a different batch or even a different source with the same print.
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I don't think that proves that whats going around is LSD. Just remember the readings from the NMR for the Hoffman Ohm 2008 afaik it was not conclusive, and i bet labtests can go for the easy path and just say its LSD.
I have been sampling thousand of blotters since the hoffman ohm and none were at match like the effects, and profoundness of this one (and i sampled it more than 30x), but just about last week i got in touch with another, can truly say equally good, the hoffman "The Originals"... After years sampling shivas, ganeshas/alex gray buddha/alex gray, hoffman 2010/alex gray, "the hoffman", etc etc.... FINALLY felt again my brain fully working to a higher level, feeling as human being with unlimited possibilities, as star child connected with universe... I must say that with so much psychedelic experiences built very hard defense mechanism and difficult can have egodeath even with 40mg 2ce... This felt like was not forcing entry but discovering myself.
About the visuals it was diffirent than recent blotters (comparing with psychedelic buddha, hoffman 2010, which are very similar , metalic taste), seemed more deeperorganic, and natural visuals, body load was absolutely 0%, felt really unharmful. The blotter had a slight citric taste but nothing compared to the horrible metalic/chemical taste as most blotters mentioned above. I feel so much intellectually and spiritually satisfied that don't have much curiosity in short-term for more psychedelics. I think this was what was looking afterall.
 
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DwayneHoover said:
I am still quite sure I have had blotters that felt super-dirty and it was NOT my "set/setting" damnit. Lets say the blotter actually contained only 25mcg of LSD plus 2-3mg of some other related compound that created a nasty bodyload, or deliberate adulterant by a dishonest profiteering maker. That sounds very within the realm of possibility, and no one can prove otherwise. I say TRUST the reports of the people's personal experiences, it is rude and unjustified to proclaim these testimonies to be faulty from afar... And dont put alot of stock in all sorts of hypothetical theories and itty bitty teeny tiny unscientific sample sets of a few dozen hits from whichever agency. Dirty/non-LSD stuff *IS* fairly abundant. Just look at the market forces... there is ample economic motivation to cheat people with low grade cheap dirty crap and get paid $10 for something that cost you 2 cents to buy. Like Duh. To keep saying over and over that this assesment is necessarily wrong and continually assert that the vast majority of acid is real pure LSD just reveals some sort of bias, IMO, I wont speculate on why.
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That doesn't really fit with the description of the purported non-LSD ergoloid that has been widely circulated recently. Most found it less profound, less stimulating, less anxiogenic, & more visual, IIRC.

I certainly trust others to accurately report how they felt, but discerning subjective effects from other effects, especially something as vague as a "dirty" feeling during a psychedelic experience is all but impossible; and certainly unscientific.

And in regards to blotters, i've seen blotters slightly smaller than a postage stamp with ~10-15mg of 2c-e, and some slightly smaller with 6mg of 2c-p. Also i've happened across some slightly larger than normal (perhaps 1.5cm square) blotters that were quite thick. Don't know what was on those though. But given the proper time, equipment & inclination, one could put many active substances on blotters.
 
I actually found the shivas and ganeshas to have the dirty feel too. The bodyload i got from these prints were enough to make you NEED to lay down at times. I did find them more visual, and more mindfucking. They were less profound in the sense that the headspace was just straight up confusion and not that brilliantly clear headspace that good L usualy gives.
 
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