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Punishing idiots

'how much can they be blamed and how much should the external factors that turned them into criminals be blamed instead?'

They are the same thing.
 
jabbajosh said:
Yeh. Knowing the surface will surely get you deeper though.
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absolutely: subcutaneous-combustion i like to think for 1.

vegan writes:
hitler may not have been more responsible for the brain he had than einstein was for his
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1/2 responsible i think, seems he may of liked what he saw - until he couldnt have it anymore.
but, it takes a certain kind in the first place... not stupid or evil, but a massive impressionable -sick- accelerator.
 
absolutely: subcutaneous-combustion i like to think for 1. Why don't I understand that? Can't you speak clearly? I ask a question and am answered with riddles/ what's the point. Go ahead and keep all this Knowledge to yourself. It must be precious.
 
hmm

okay, i mean yes of course knowledge is needed, and should hopefully be of enough interest to an individual - a passion of learning about a subject, something deep in a person; whats under their skin and makes us tick. this usually isnt seen as "practical" and so neglected. i feel that if we would be able jump into to an area of strong personal interest, that this also would have a effect for a whole in a positive way, for your neighbors and society eventually.

with trying and doing what is needed for yourself, it will eventually be of use or relief to others - with an honest understanding which should come with your surroundings, other wise your surroundings(people, a tree, a dog or cat w/e) will let you know.


you asked a question, i didnt try and respond negatively - sorry you feel that way now.
:-\
 
jabbajosh said:
But it seems irrelevant cos even healthy adults do stuff they don't mean to. Weather they are drunk or hyper or just plain angry. I really don't know anyone that is capable of being downright malicious. Maybe I'm not running in the right circles.
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There is a BIG difference between being drunk, and being emotional. When you are drunk, you have willfully put yourself in a position where your rational facilities are limited. When you are emotional, there are ways to calm yourself down, and act rationally. At least, that is what I can do. When you are drunk, your motor skills are limited, as is your reaction time. So, being drunk is being deliberately ignorant.
 
You're talking about the lines distinguishing intent and ignorance.

vegan said:
what i've been wondering for a while is "can anyone be blamed for his actions?"

a deaf person can be blamed for being deaf
a poor kid whose dad told to steal to bring money home can't be blamed for stealing
someone stupid can't be blamed for not understanding. it's not his choice to be stupid

where does this stop?

it's not someone's choice to have genes, culture or upbringing that makes him a bully
what about a violent person
a paedophile - most of them have been abused in their infancy. the correlation is huge. how much can they be blamed and how much should the external factors that turned them into criminals be blamed instead?

hitler may not have been more responsible for the brain he had than einstein was for his
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I understand what you're saying, but surely using your "genetic malfunction" for material gain, as in the case you described, can surely determine the intention to do so.

Quite a few variables go into determining "malicious intent,"

some may be harder to recognize than others.

Some may even be mistaken for intent, or for ignorance mistaken for malice, etc.

This is where critical thinking plays a roll.


I like what you're getting at, I just wish you'd use a better analogy to describe it.
 
This is such a broad topic lol... I don't know if there is a logical answer. What seems stupid to me is amazing to someone else. There is an entire subculture of men who enjoy getting kicked in the balls (true). They get turned on by it or something. Personally, I think its retarded...for me. But, to each his own I guess.

When it comes to politics... there is no debate. All politicians are corrupt liars who have nothing but the worst intentions for the masses. Period. This fact supersedes stupidity and enters the realm of evil selfishness. But...who is too say what's good and what's bad...but...who..why...how... OH NO I'VE GONE CROSSEYED...........
 
jabbajosh said:
If I could be unaware of what I was doing and not held accountable or be aware of everything I did and held accountable I reckon I'd prefer the latter. Even though clearly most people are held accountable for their actions despite (to some extent) their level of intelligence.
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The trouble most of us lie somewhere inbetween, we pretty much all believe we're aware of what we're doing...but are we ?
 
damn, edit won't work for my first post. i meant "deaf person can't..." of course, not can

I understand what you're saying, but surely using your "genetic malfunction" for material gain, as in the case you described, can surely determine the intention to do so.
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but is someone responsible for the "malicious intent" that would make him abuse his "genetic malfunction"?
since he would be born with the potential for this "malicious intent" rather than choose to have it

So I guess we are asking the same thing
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almost, yes
but whereas many people would agree to pardon an idiot because "it's not his fault, his brain is not well developped", less would be willing to forgive someone for an "evil" demeanour by explaining that "it's not his fault that he was born 'evil'"
 
I can't speak for everyone here, but I can say this: I am aware that there is enough idiocy in me to warrant at least a life-time of learning (ie. my current life) in order to aspire to cleanse most of it from just myself.

Having said this, it would seem that judging others as idiots is already an act of cruelty, even if it were warranted.

Thus, I will have to conclude that ONLY an idiot would say what I just said then, to add injury to insult, ACT on his judgement by punishing them!

In other words - I am convinced that all humans have some amount of idiocy (as well as all other vices, as well as all other virtues) in them. It seems then that the best one can hope to do is to fix one's own idiocy - the universe has enough virtue to automatically and precisely punish idiots as they deserve.

I also agree with basically all of what vegan said, too.
 
I believe that some people have a category called "idiots" for reasons that aren't to bright or noble.

Once an individual is labeled an idiot they are no longer to be afforded rights and dignities that non-idiots receive. Ripping someone off, humiliating someone, turning them in, subjecting them to punishment, are things that are often justified by someone receiving an idiot label. The labels are given out casually and the labelers are often both sadly and comically more idiotic then the labeled in a number of ways.

Enthusiasm about punishing others is so vile to so many that I would definitely use the idiot smokescreen or any other smokescreen I could think up. Would under utilizing one's intellect or having less intelligence really be a good means to create a frenzy for punishing. Pfff, study Nancy Grace. If you want to whip up a frenzy for punishing you need to focus on murderers of children. Enough raw emotion can be stirred up that no one will even ask themselves if the state of being a punishment enthusiast is good for themselves or the social good. Eventually you will get villagers with torches.
 
Jamshyd said:
I can't speak for everyone here, but I can say this: I am aware that there is enough idiocy in me to warrant at least a life-time of learning (ie. my current life) in order to aspire to cleanse most of it from just myself.

Having said this, it would seem that judging others as idiots is already an act of cruelty, even if it were warranted.
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I disagree.

It would be cruel if you made them feel bad about this.

Simply being critical of other's stupidity isn't cruel in my opinion. There's a line to be drawn, and there are many blatantly and willfully ignorant people in the world that simply could care less about bettering themselves for the sake of us or anyone else for that matter. It's selfish, and there's no excuse for it with the amount of information and knowledge we all have at our fingertips via the Internet, public libraries, etc.

Good example of this would be the criticism embodied by most when dealing with a racist. After all, racism is just a form of blind stupidity/ignorance.

I don't sympathize with stupid. I call them the new dumb, and I blame them for the petty, selfish, unjust, horrible state the world is in.
 
"we are all, as humans, very stupid; and to think oneself more advanced or intelligent then another only proves this"
 
jabbajosh said:
In modern culture, many seem to me to be heavily influenced by it. If there were a way to over come the conditioning of culture ie. mediation, psychedelics ect. Would those that had overcome those conditions completely be the only ones that could be held responsible for their actions.

Or is over coming the conditioning of culture in itself a condition of culture?
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If it looks like someone knows what they are doing, to you, and they actually don't, that's on you.. does it make either stupid? You would first have to know what they were doing I guess.. what if you thought someone looked like they knew what they were doing to you, but they were actually doing something else then you might be stupid if you were supposed to know either what they were doing, or what it looked like they were doing..
 
hobhead said:
apparently not : consider george W. bush's legacy to the citizenry. if i had my way i would have him led out and horsefucked in public. that cretin did more damage in 8 years than was thought possible.
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bush merely continued the legacy of reagan's stupidity (policy-wise), with a stupider style of speaking.
 
I think that we need first ask, what is it to hold someone accountable, and given a particular (set of) knowledge-powerful regime(s), is it ethically desirable to hold people accountable in such a way?

ebola
 
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