Difference in effects,side effects , addictions of pseudo vs ketone ice.

[franky figgs]

hi all . new to the site .
was just wandering what are the different symptoms of an psudo based ice addiction and keytone based ice addiction. if you have had an option or either one constantly.
if anyone can spread there knowlegde on this

 

[footscrazy]

Do you really mean difference in addiction or difference in effects...? Addiction is addiction really and whether you're using ketone or pseudo the main indicator of addiction (ambivalence towards your use - wanting to keep on using whilst also wanting to stop because of its negative effects) are the same in both.

Most people prefer pseudo meth as it contains only the d-isomer, which provides the effects people associate with meth. Ketone contains both D and L isomer, and the L isomer is thought to have no stimulant activity.

 

[franky figgs]

thanks footscrazy , i ask because i looked it up i found a little bit of infomation about D and L isomer ,(isomer? receptor in brain or similar?). and some of the thing i read were how this can be useing diffrent sides of your brain ?

 

[Mr Blonde]

What footscrazy said. The effects you want from meth come from the d-isomer; l-methamphetamine has some peripheral stimulant properties but is non-recreational and in fact is used in some OTC nasal decongestant inhalers in the United States.

'Ketone meth' refers to meth made from a synthesis route that leads to both isomers being created (e.g. from phenylacetone). Meth made from pseudoephedrine is always d-isomer, due to the stereochemistry of the precursor.

ETA: Just saw your new post. L-methamphetamine does not cross the blood-brain-barrier as far as I am aware; even if it does, it must not bind to the same targets that d-methamphetamine does. L-methamphetamine must primarily work as a neurotransmitter releaser in the sympathetic nervous system; the release of these substances being what causes the nasal decongestion and the degree of stimulation is reportedly has.

 

[titstypedthis]

I've heard p2p(ketone) derived ice is more manageable, less fiendy and a better rounded high..


Also "ketone" can refer to methcathinone occasionally, but you'll know it when you get that shit.

 

[footscrazy]

No, the definition of isomer is a moecule which contains the same components, but in a different arrangement. The different arrangement means it can have different effects. It also affects other things, like crystallisation. Crystal methamphetamine has to be (well, usually ) only d isomer, as they are symmetrical and can form a lattice. Throw in a different shaped building block (l isomer) and it throws the whole pattern out, so crystals can not be formed.

 

[franky figgs]

i personally rate the keytone , not saying more so then the
psuedo. i have found the first rush of the keytone is awsome , but how ever seems to do less (of a rush) then psuedo after each pipe in the in the one sitting

 

[88brenno]

wtf is keytone lol

 

[franky figgs]

no . i mainly have used good keyton lately and was checking the diffrent effects and symptoms if any at all. also the different effects it could have had on me as im trying to stop useing .

 

[Mr Blonde]

^ Remember, unless you synthesize it yourself you have no idea if it actually is 'ketone' or 'pseudo' methamphetamine. Differing purities can account for qualitative differences sometimes.

Crystal methamphetamine has to be (well, usually ) only d isomer, as they are symmetrical and can form a lattice.

Racemic compounds can form crystal lattices; depending on the form of lattice it takes, the melting point will differ from the pure enantiomeric compound and adding an enantiomer to the racemic to skew the ratio will lead to further changes to melting point.

 

[titstypedthis]

^ I was talking about racemic meth specifically which can't crystallise generally, though I know someone has just figured out how to do it.

ofcourse it can, shards will be a bit different but whatevs

 

[Mr Blonde]

I've heard of it done before as well, though it took effort and decent equipment to keep the samples pure and to allow very slow cooling from high temps.

 

[footscrazy]

ofcourse it can, shards will be a bit different but whatevs

Like I said, I know it can be done but it takes more effort than a usual recrystallisation process as L and D isomers are enantiomers. How do you do it?

 

[Biscuit]

I've heard p2p(ketone) derived ice is more manageable, less fiendy and a better rounded high..

That is probably because it is half the strength

 

[titstypedthis]

That is probably because it is half the strength

The two enantiomers have a synergistic effect which alone would feel like side effects, but together is subjectively better.

 

[peterpellet]

^ Remember, unless you synthesize it yourself you have no idea if it actually is 'ketone' or 'pseudo' methamphetamine. Differing purities can account for qualitative differences sometimes.



Racemic compounds can form crystal lattices; depending on the form of lattice it takes, the melting point will differ from the pure enantiomeric compound and adding an enantiomer to the racemic to skew the ratio will lead to further changes to melting point.

saying this,

do "ketone" and "pseudo" meth look different? do they different properties?

 

[footscrazy]

saying this,

do "ketone" and "pseudo" meth look different? do they different properties?

reading this thread would be a start to answering your questions...

There's no surefire way to indentify ketone vs pseudo meth by appearamce. Shards are more likely to be pseudo but lately people have figured out how to crystallise ketone so that's not a gaurantee.

As for different effects, people report different things. Generally people prefer the d isomer, while the ketone containing both d and l isomer is often described as less euphoric, a more anxious high with greater physical effects like a fast hearbeat and anxiety, and shorter lasting.

 

[pisspotnrock]

so in laments terms, ketone has more negative side effects apposed to pseudo have more positive side? but crystal is more than likely to be pseudo?

The gear I picked up Thursday (crystal) sounds very much like the ketone described in this thread..

 

[footscrazy]

^ That's correct. It's unsubstantiated whether L-isomer has any psychoactive effects at all, so it follows that a pseudo preparation with all the meth being D-isomer will be more euphoric than the ketone, which is only 50% D-isomer. Of course this assumed that both prepartions are pure, but since all meth is cut, it's not guaranteed which preparation will actually contain more D-isomer. The crystallisation process for ketone is actually quite tricky, so you're actually almost guarauteed to get 50% D-isomer in those shards, whereas straight d-isomer shards can be cut much more easily with msm and others.

...Hope that made sense.

 

[Mr Blonde]

^ Listen to footscrazy OP, she knows her stuff.

The l-isomer does not act centrally; that is, no euphoria or intellectual stimulation. It acts mainly as a stimulant in the sympathetic nervous system and would produce 'jittery' effect. This probably leads to the feelings of anxiety or nervousness that some people report from having from trying l-methamphetamine (which is available as a decongestant in the states).