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I think the questions are only valid to 'individuals', i.e. they only matter while you are connected to your ego. For example, next time your in a K-hole, try to ask yourself what the meaning of life is. It's not gonna happen. It doesn't matter, to the universe, there is no purpose. Individuals choose to believe in meaning and purpose for reasons I do not fully understand.
Click to expand...

(lengthy post coming up)

Aha but I'm not talking about the artificial ego-constructs, I'm talking about a 'purpose' (bad word i know) related to the 'true/inner self', which would by definition extend to everyone else - for me one of the main implications of psychedelics is the existence of Universal Morality - as in, there's an identical 'moral axis' within everyone's true consciousness, whether aware of it or not. Seems to me, how closely aligned the values that someone actively adopts are with these 'universal values/morals' is generally what determines how subjectively 'good' their trip is, and if like me you view the psychedelic experience as a metaphor for life in general, it follows that the message of psychedelics is that there is a 'right way' to live (if not a 'purpose'
as such) - does that make any sense?

At any rate, i expect most would agree bad trips on psychs clearly don't just happen randomly, & discounting inappropriate settings this seems the intuitive explanation to me.

I'm curious as to whether this 'axis' (or one's alignment to it, rather), if you believe in its existence, has any impact on the subjective nature of dissociatives (I don't think it does btw - give acid to a typical materialistic, status-obsessed & sexually repressed modern westerner and the result probably won't be pretty - wasn't for me when I was one - but give the same person ket & he'll likely have a great time - I did)

For me this strongly suggests that 'evil' is a non-existent concept - people can be misguided, sure, evil for the sake of evil does not exist imo.


eh, not really sure where this is going anymore - and I should really go get breakfast now.

Don't know how that will sound....but would be interesting to know to what extent you agree/disagree with my views on psychedelics & how they relate to dissociatives.given how similarly we've interpreted dissociatives :) Plus I'd welcome feeback (positive or negative) from anyone else, hopefully there's someone out there who finds this interesting enough to read. Even if it's a load of crap, I reckon there's a whole lot more to this consciousness thing than some fluke of evolution that ends when we die.

I've about exhausted my writing capacity for now though, so peevee time first, then gonna eat & shower, have a little more PV followed by a joint & a beer in the sun. Then get back to the PV thread where I belong :D Laters everyone :)

p.s. was wondering how my non-druggy friends & relatives would react if i told them my belief system was pretty much entirely the result of my drug experiences - probably best not to find out 8(
 
I'm gonna read and reply, I'm interested in this kinda shit :D

But first, I'm gonna plant a seed for you:

Dualism
NOTE: It explains this in the beginning of the paragraph, but in order to properly read/understand this paragraph, you have to substitute these words:

Purusha = Spirit/Consciousness
Prakrti = Matter/Nature

Read Here (relatively short) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dualism#Consciousness.2FMatter_dualism

Specifically these sentences:
False confusion between the Self and what is not the Self is considered the fundamental ignorance that perpetuates bondage in this world. Liberation is sought by becoming aware of such distinctions on a very deep level of personal knowledge, so that one may eventually use the great faculty of the mind—intellectual reflection (Buddhi/Mahat) -- without mistakenly identifying it with the Purusha, and then the effects of such entanglement will unravel and one will no longer be bound by incarnations or confused by Prakriti.
Click to expand...


If you find anything that resonates on that wiki, have a look around, theres some cool (and relevant) stuff on there.

But dualism is a very important concept to me. 2 is a very special number. It is the universal balance. Good vs. Evil, Everything vs. Nothing, Positive vs. Negative, Male vs. Female, etc etc etc...

It seems to me like the constant push/pull of the two opposing extremes is what keeps the universe going, and in balance.

Just food for thought.
 
cops4rizzle said:
(lengthy post coming up)

Aha but I'm not talking about the artificial ego-constructs, I'm talking about a 'purpose' (bad word i know) related to the 'true/inner self', which would by definition extend to everyone else - for me one of the main implications of psychedelics is the existence of Universal Morality - as in, there's an identical 'moral axis' within everyone's true consciousness, whether aware of it or not. Seems to me, how closely aligned the values that someone actively adopts are with these 'universal values/morals' is generally what determines how subjectively 'good' their trip is, and if like me you view the psychedelic experience as a metaphor for life in general, it follows that the message of psychedelics is that there is a 'right way' to live (if not a 'purpose'
as such) - does that make any sense?

At any rate, i expect most would agree bad trips on psychs clearly don't just happen randomly, & discounting inappropriate settings this seems the intuitive explanation to me.

I'm curious as to whether this 'axis' (or one's alignment to it, rather), if you believe in its existence, has any impact on the subjective nature of dissociatives (I don't think it does btw - give acid to a typical materialistic, status-obsessed & sexually repressed modern westerner and the result probably won't be pretty - wasn't for me when I was one - but give the same person ket & he'll likely have a great time - I did)
Click to expand...

So we agree that everything is one, and one is everything, right?

Then you could say, there is one thing.

Expanding on what I just posted on duality, I believe this one thing is composed of two dimensions, if you will. (1) Matter and (2) Consciousness. Matter is what we physically experience. Consciousness is what we mentally experience.

Now, this is where it gets hard for me to express so bear with me.

I believe that the purpose is to experience. I don't mean individual experience, like the kind me or you has every waking moment. I mean the purpose of 'the one thing' is to subjectively experience itself infinitely. The way that manifests, is what we know as the universe. Matter. Consciousness. Me. You.

As you can see, nature and evolution will never stop. Humans are no special species, we just have brains wired for communication and personal intelligence, which happened to lead to civilization. Nature will constantly be taking on one form after another, just look at how many species of individually conscious beings we have in existence today. Thats the purpose. To simply live, grow, experience, and die. The cycle continues no matter what, nothing will ever break it. And thats all that is supposed to happen. Infinite life of everything.

Not sure if I went to far off the path there.



As far as the moral axis, I do believe in that, and I can see how it could be associated with bad trips. Of course there are also other factors, but certainly that could be a large one. I think that morals are only relevant to survival, I don't think the universe as a whole has any kind of moral code. Members of any species come hardwired with instincts and primitive coding that is there for the benefit of the species. It's why species work together, and always think of themselves as one.




Last point you made was about psychs vs. dissociatives. I agree with most of what you've said. I think I touched on this earlier, but... I think that psychedelics work with the ego. Sure, they take off some of the filters in your brain, but for the most part they work with your conscious brain and body.

Dissociatives (at full strength) completely destroy the ego. They completely sever mental from physical. You cant communicate with the physical world, its gone. Therefore, to me they are a purely spiritual drug. Spirit = Consciousness. They allow the exploration of consciousness, because your brain no longer has to process physical data and its free to put all its energy into the spirit, or consciousness.


My Ketalooped 2cents
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I'm reading this exchange, its 4:10AM, and I am absolutely loving it. I wish I had interjected sooner, but I'm enjoying the exchange without the extreme participation.

Everyone has a sixth sense, its the only universal sense and the only one that can't be lost physically. Some people choose to ignore this sense, thus being "truly" blind to the buzzing existence around them. Not physical existence mind you, but the energy that everything living shares.

I've never experienced a "k-hole" but I have been to the edge of no consciousness on LSD and dilaudid. There was no "me", because I was everything and the everything was "me". I didn't need to feel, but just exist. I think every time someone takes a mental journey, whether it be Ket, LSD, or deep meditation it changes their six sense to be more keen, to pick up and receive transmissions better.

You don't ever come down off of a drug trip you just understand it and conquer it, level out on that plane of understanding so to speak. When you have a "bad trip" its your six sense telling you something is wrong, its up to you to overcome this mental blockage (figure out what the cause of said "pain" is) and in turn take these negative things out of your life and reincarnate them into positive things for yourself and others. People are always looking for the "good trip" but maybe thats not always what its about. I don't really believe in good or bad trips, I think people put a lot of blame on the drugs when it comes to bad trips, they just can't handle their own brain taken them somewhere new.

In short, like someone else said, drugs are one way, they're one of the tools given to us as humans to get a glimpse of what is to come after this existence. Some people are still blind, even when their third eye is held open for them.

Finished this at 4:53 after NUMEROUS edits and re-edits, almost three episodes of Seinfeld, 5 hash bowls, and 3 slices of pizza.
 
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StickyChron said:
they just can't handle their own brain taken them somewhere new.
Click to expand...

Regarding this, I have actually wanted a bad trip.
Not to be reckless as such, but more for the experience, so I know what it's like and where I can go in this trip.

So, what is the equivelant of a K-hole for lsd?
Is there one?
Or is there no point in which you lose senses / become one with the universe.
 
StickyChron said:
In short, like someone else said, drugs are one way, they're one of the tools given to us as humans to get a glimpse of what is to come after this existence. Some people are still blind, even when their third eye is held open for them.

Finished this at 4:53 after NUMEROUS edits and re-edits, almost three episodes of Seinfeld, 5 hash bowls, and 3 slices of pizza.
Click to expand...

^ My two favorite paragraphs of your post. LoL at the second one, I'm right there with you, except hash oil instead of hash, and pancakes instead of pizza =D


I really agree with this statement, though:
Some people are still blind, even when their third eye is held open for them.
Click to expand...


Good shit.
 
Dark_Raver said:
Regarding this, I have actually wanted a bad trip.
Not to be reckless as such, but more for the experience, so I know what it's like and where I can go in this trip.

So, what is the equivelant of a K-hole for lsd?
Is there one?
Or is there no point in which you lose senses / become one with the universe.
Click to expand...

I think the combination of the LSD and Hydromorphone together greatly aided in this feeling of non-existance because I was everything all at once. I didn't move for like 4-5 hours, just sat with my eyes closed looking at nothing. There were no open eye visuals, as I couldn't open them if I had wanted to. Closed eyes I couldn't see physical things in my mind, it was just energy flowing out of my head in a recurring cycle back in. Had I been on a lower dose of either substance, I feel I would have stayed planted in physicality. LSD is great for ego LOSS, but like eket said, I don't think there is ever a point where its completely destroyed. But then again, I've never done a thumbprint or any such thing.
 
I dunno... I've spent the last few years around the acid culture of NorCal, being very wild and irresponsible with it (I have a felony possession 44 tabs of LSD, heh...) but also taking ridiculous doses.... I was selling it (obviously), both liquid and blotter, I've had plenty of ten-strip trips, and one of my strongest LSD trips if not the strongest LSD trip was when I washed a vial of SUPER good liquid, that had around ~10 hits or so PLUS the wash, which adds another 5 drops or so.

But on none of those trips did I ever experience complete ego destruction without the aide of a dissociative.

I think dissociatives are the only class of drug that can cause complete separation of mind and body while still keeping the user 'awake'
 
I really want to try Ket + LSD now, after this thread overtook my mind tonight.


I've been so high on LSD I didn't know who I was, I was still someone, somewhere though. Haha.

Ten strips are hardly comparable to doing a thump print though, I've taken 14 hits straight out of a vial, but a thumb print is supposed to be somewhere like 1,000+ hits. I don't know what I would feel?
 
StickyChron said:
I really want to try Ket + LSD now, after this thread overtook my mind tonight.


I've been so high on LSD I didn't know who I was, I was still someone, somewhere though. Haha.

Ten strips are hardly comparable to doing a thump print though, I've taken 14 hits straight out of a vial, but a thumb print is supposed to be somewhere like 1,000+ hits. I don't know what I would feel?
Click to expand...

Oh I see... yeah that kinda shit is wwaaaaaaaayyyyy out of line if you're not trying to go insane, that'll send you straight off the plot for sure. Too much.

But LSD + K on the other hand.... Thats perfect
27.gif
 
How much time should it take for benzo dependance to develop?
I had been taking small doses of phenazepam(0.2-0.3 mg) before going to bed and stopped yesterday. I am ok now, and I guess I have to take this stuff for month to get dependant on it, but anyway, it looks like almost every BL-er got addicted to benzos at least once, so you can enlighten me, guys:)
 
ektamine said:
Oh I see... yeah that kinda shit is wwaaaaaaaayyyyy out of line if you're not trying to go insane, that'll send you straight off the plot for sure. Too much.

But LSD + K on the other hand.... Thats perfect
27.gif
Click to expand...

LSD is one of my personal favorites, and it sounds like Ket might be one of yours.;) I've never done K once, but it sounds like the combo would be great.


I don't know if it is even truth but its an interesting read on LSD either way:

http://forums.mycotopia.net/misc-entheogens/1589-crystal-blotter-lsd.html
 
1. Find someone with an LSD crystal.
2. Have them break a little chunk off.
3. Eat said chunk of Lysergic acid diethylamide crystal.
4. Kill yourself?


I'm just gonna say it, even if I could, I wouldn't.
 
ektamine said:
Expanding on what I just posted on duality, I believe this one thing is composed of two dimensions, if you will. (1) Matter and (2) Consciousness. Matter is what we physically experience. Consciousness is what we mentally experience.

Now, this is where it gets hard for me to express so bear with me.

I believe that the purpose is to experience. I don't mean individual experience, like the kind me or you has every waking moment. I mean the purpose of 'the one thing' is to subjectively experience itself infinitely. The way that manifests, is what we know as the universe. Matter. Consciousness. Me. You.

As you can see, nature and evolution will never stop. Humans are no special species, we just have brains wired for communication and personal intelligence, which happened to lead to civilization. Nature will constantly be taking on one form after another, just look at how many species of individually conscious beings we have in existence today. Thats the purpose. To simply live, grow, experience, and die. The cycle continues no matter what, nothing will ever break it. And thats all that is supposed to happen. Infinite life of everything.
Click to expand...

I like the idea that matter/energy (the physical) and consciousness (the mental) are fundamental properties of the universe, and can be conceived of as two aspect of a single substance. David Chalmers endorses this "dual-aspect ontology." This implies that the mental encompasses much more than we, as humans, with our unique brand of consciousness, typically consider.

According to Chalmers, "Physics requires information states but cares only about their relations, not their intrinsic nature; phenomenology requires information states, but cares only about the intrinsic nature. ... As a slogan: Experience is information from the inside; physics is information from the outside."

Purpose/design is an awfully sticky subject. I think it's fine to say that the universe is subjectively experiencing itself, but does it necessarily follow that "to experience" is the reason why the universe exists (the purpose)? Who's to say that the mental and the physical aren't equally purposeful/purposeless? I tried to come up with answers, but all I've come to so far are more questions...

Perhaps humans are incapable of fully reconciling the blind cause-and-effect model of the universe with a teleological view (recognizing purpose), even though each may be equally valid. Or perhaps we are, and it is just beyond me at the moment.
 
allium said:
How much time should it take for benzo dependance to develop?
Click to expand...

Minor signs of dependence (difficulty falling asleep w/o benzo) can start within a week. More significant withdrawal effects typically require longer duration and escalating doses, but there's no set rule as to how much or how long is okay to avoid problems. I think after a few weeks, even at low doses, one would experience some rebound anxiety. I'd advise against using it multiple days in a row, period.
 
1000 hits of LSD won't kill you, just probably be a little heavy for your psyche to handle... might end bad.
 
LSD in its pure form is amazingly powerful stuff. Pretty wild to hear about people just crunching rocks of LSD and tripping for weeks. That link is pretty interesting stuff if you don't know much about the process. I have some other cool shit I can find and post later if you want.


I would have liked to be alive in the glory days. But then again, whats to say it won't happen again with something else just as beautiful? I just hope I'm alive to see the next batch of culture be administered to the populous.
 
Would having a 'thumbprint' then, possibly erase/destroy your ego permanently, or put you in a trip that could possibly last weeks? Which I guess would bound to cause some kind of permanent psychological damage?
 
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