Question about heroin?

[dean stark]

And similarly, no substance is inherently addictive. No chemist, doctor, or psychologist can point to the heroin molecule and identify its one physical property or attribute that makes it addictive.

Reference? I think it helps to know what you are talking about before making statements like that. The biological basis for addiction is pretty well researched, even if it isn't totally understood.

 

[verso]

I think you're oversimplifying things. What you're talking about is impulse control and the reward mechanism which can be likened to compulsive gambling.

Drugs like heroin, cocaine, MDPV and so on have a withdrawal effect on a cellular level. This can result in symptoms like depression, anxiety, etc. Taking the drug again alleviates the effects, so the mechanism is different to impulse control.

People also experience this with alcohol. Some people are more disposed to alcoholism and there is evidence to support that it is genetic.

But that withdrawal effect is experienced only after pretty regular and more-than-moderate use, suggesting that a user experiencing withdrawal already has a problem, albeit not one that may have been recognized. I'm not sure a user would experience withdrawal after using for only a weekend. I have never experienced withdrawal, for example.

 

[verso]

Reference? I think it helps to know what you are talking about before making statements like that. The biological basis for addiction is pretty well researched, even if it isn't totally understood.

Fair enough.

Where is its one physical attribute that makes heroin inherently addictive? Can you find it?

EDIT: There's no question that butter, standing alone and by its very nature, is inherently fattening because it contains fat, right? So heroin is inherently addictive because... well, because why? What is its one physical attribute we can point to and say, "Here it is!" That's what I'm saying.

 

[maxalfie]

Paint a bleak picture or what.

It doesn't work like that, buddy. Eventually it'll go from every 5-7 day, to every 3 days, and then you'll somehow justify doing it every other day and then it's got you. When it gets you, it will be a relationship that will end you up either in prison, institutions, or death. Heroin will take everything away from you, I know because I was an addict for 11 years (I still occasionally dabble, even though I'm on methadone).

I myself have been on heroin daily for nearly 11 years and although I agree it will eventually get to you I don't agree that it means you will end up in prison or dead.
I have worked full time throughout my addiction and continue to do so. I have never stolen from anyone or anywhere. Heroin isn't a great life choice granted but it need not end up as a life in the gutter.

 

[thepool]

I myself have been on heroin daily for nearly 11 years and although I agree it will eventually get to you I don't agree that it means you will end up in prison or dead.
I have worked full time throughout my addiction and continue to do so. I have never stolen from anyone or anywhere. Heroin isn't a great life choice granted but it need not end up as a life in the gutter.

+1

i thought the exact same when i read that, Heroin usage = Prison or death?
what a stupid comment!!

ive never been locked up or arrested on any drug charges and ive been using on and off for close to 10 years

and as for death...well look at william burroughs! he lived until his late 80's!
i also feel pretty healthy myself....it would probably be a different story if i injected but i have only ever smoked no.3 afghan heroin and ive had no health issues whatsoever

 

[Im_Soooooo_High]

dont i know it, but im gonna try and smoke every 5 days or so cos i need me fix more often

ill report back with the findings....hopefully no clucking!?

be careful my friend.. sounds like your getting on that slippery downward slope that has ruined soooooo many young lives

if i wear you i would completely stop for a month and just use 1-2 times a month from there.

just my opinion though never tryed smack but have tried many other opiates and i would say i have very good self control for a 16 year old with a shit load of money and great oxy/H hook ups. never use opiates more than once a month and only use it to reward my self after a good week. keeps all the great opium magic, keeps tolerance at or near zero no chance for addiction. even though i feel im kinda mentally addicted and always think how nice it would be to have some oxy right now lol. but i only think that kinda stuff when im sober and rely board. sorry for huge rambling response im on a shit load of adderal

 

[adder]

Where is its one physical attribute that makes heroin inherently addictive? Can you find it?

Two acetyl groups that are lipophilic which makes heroin pass through BBB faster than morphine. But heroin itself has a very low affinity to opioid receptors and it wouldn't do anything by itself. Heroin is metabolized in the brain to 6-monoacetylmorphine and morphine and these are the drugs that are responsible for effects after heroin intake.

Any group that is lipophilic may substitute these two acetyl groups, e.g. dipropanoylmorphine, dibutanoylmorphine, dibenzoylmorphine, dinicotinoylmorphine etc. give a similarly fast or faster rush than heroin... In this case change structural change in the drug (morphine) makes it just more lipophilic, so the rush is faster and less physical (cf. "pins & needles" feeling after morphine injection and its absence after heroin injection).

 

[Im_Soooooo_High]

When comparing the wide accpetance of alcohol to heroin, I believe its not the powder of heroin that turns people off but the "needle" used to get high when taking that route. When heroin is glorified in movies, its rarely seen being snorted. They usually depict the heroin user/addict as down & out & using the needle either in their arm or other parts of their bodies.

See, I plan on using morphine one day but as far as shooting it up with a needle, its never gonna happen, at least I hope not.......even tho shooting up morphine is the best way to do it, I still wont because of how disgusting I think that method is, besides that, I hate needles & so do most people, that is why heroin is looked down upon so harshly.

Its okay to go out & get drunk & smash your car just as long as no one gets hurt but to do be caught shooting up heroin even tho it hurts no one but yourself (case being) is looked down upon 10x fold.

exactly.. when i tell people i want to try heroin there like "OMG !!!11!1! i could never stick myself with a needle" ( also say dumb bs like you'll be automatically addicted, youll get aids, youll OD, destroys your brain/heart and other stupid media propaganda ) Because they dont know there are other ROA's.

and yea ive never seen on movies or tv people using any other ROA besides IV . which i think is part of why people think the drug is so "bad and scary" and because all they see when they think of H is the homeless bum in the dumpster with a needle sticking out of his arm and robing people for there next fix. or they think about the friend or celebrity who ODed and died or whos life was destroyed by H.

i dont rely want to try morphine ( wont look for it but if someone has it ill try it and i would plug it ). i would much rather try H. i rely wanna try IV'ing it but i know it will probly lead to addiction. but i will defiantly try it before i die i just dont know when. probly when im in my 30's ( 15 years from now). but i heard ( and idk if this is bs propaganda but i believe it) that the first time you IV youll never be happy with any other ROA and will live and die by the needle. im kinda scared of needles but i think i could do it.

EDIT: do any opiates ( mainly H ) do any real damage to the body/mind? like organ damage, killing brain cells, hair loss ect... ( i heard the fully synthetic ones like methadone are the worst for you )

and if not would you say a few nights of hard drinking a month does more harm to your body than snorting H once or twice a month?

 

[thepool]

exactly.. when i tell people i want to try heroin there like "OMG !!!11!1! i could never stick myself with a needle" ( also say dumb bs like you'll be automatically addicted, youll get aids, youll OD, destroys your brain/heart and other stupid media propaganda ) Because they dont know there are other ROA's.

and yea ive never seen on movies or tv people using any other ROA besides IV . which i think is part of why people think the drug is so "bad and scary" and because all they see when they think of H is the homeless bum in the dumpster with a needle sticking out of his arm and robing people for there next fix. or they think about the friend or celebrity who ODed and died or whos life was destroyed by H.

i dont rely want to try morphine ( wont look for it but if someone has it ill try it and i would plug it ). i would much rather try H. i rely wanna try IV'ing it but i know it will probly lead to addiction. but i will defiantly try it before i die i just dont know when. probly when im in my 30's ( 15 years from now). but i heard ( and idk if this is bs propaganda but i believe it) that the first time you IV youll never be happy with any other ROA and will live and die by the needle. im kinda scared of needles but i think i could do it.

EDIT: do any opiates ( mainly H ) do any real damage to the body/mind? like organ damage, killing brain cells, hair loss ect... ( i heard the fully synthetic ones like methadone are the worst for you )

and if not would you say a few nights of hard drinking a month does more harm to your body than snorting H once or twice a month?

well ive had no health issues after 10 years of smoking H. its just people that IV that can really fuck up their veins. they can also catch hep C,HIV etc. but thats only if they share needles

IMO heroin/opiates are probably as safe as alcohol in the long run...just depends on ROA

 

[psychopath]

Did you read the part where the OP said he was strung out for years?

 

[Im_Soooooo_High]

well ive had no health issues after 10 years of smoking H. its just people that IV that can really fuck up their veins. they can also catch hep C,HIV etc. but thats only if they share needles

IMO heroin/opiates are probably as safe as alcohol in the long run...just depends on ROA

ya i know you can fuck up your veins with iv'ing but i dont plan on doing that more than once haha

 

[kokaino]

Fair enough.

Where is its one physical attribute that makes heroin inherently addictive? Can you find it?

EDIT: There's no question that butter, standing alone and by its very nature, is inherently fattening because it contains fat, right? So heroin is inherently addictive because... well, because why? What is its one physical attribute we can point to and say, "Here it is!" That's what I'm saying.

The fact that that molecule is morphine with two acetyl groups. Heroin is a morphine prodrug and morphine is well known and documented to be an extremely addictive substances in scientific literature, even before science advanced and began to disprove myths and such, morphine was known to be highly addictive among laymen.

 

[RedRum OG]

every single junky was once at the place you are at right now. you are on a very steep slope. i see questions like this on BL all the time and it makes me very sad, all these people thinking they can cheat dope addiction by sticking to a perfect plan they made. sooner or later the time between highs will shorten, the plan will go out the window, along with your soul.

 

[TheLostBoys]

every single junky was once at the place you are at right now. you are on a very steep slope. i see questions like this on BL all the time and it makes me very sad, all these people thinking they can cheat dope addiction by sticking to a perfect plan they made. sooner or later the time between highs will shorten, the plan will go out the window, along with your soul.

May be so for anyone doing heroin or other drugs but the same goes for alcoholics, gamblers that will wager on 2 cats running down the street or a hooker that loves the money so much, she will have sex with anyone.

Any addiction has its pitfalls & if we are not careful, it will sink its teeth in us before we realize it.

Whats the reason for this addiction? Well, if you are doing heroin or any other drug to escape the harsh reliality of what is going on in your life & things cant get better no matter what & you're 100% sure of this, then I see no reason to question someones choice of doing the so called drug that could be their demise if that demise is better than what they are going threw in life.

Bottom line, let them be & if ths drug brings this person more happiness in life than anything before or current has to offer, then why not.........

 

[thepool]

May be so for anyone doing heroin or other drugs but the same goes for alcoholics, gamblers that will wager on 2 cats running down the street or a hooker that loves the money so much, she will have sex with anyone.

Any addiction has its pitfalls & if we are not careful, it will sink its teeth in us before we realize it.

Whats the reason for this addiction? Well, if you are doing heroin or any other drug to escape the harsh reliality of what is going on in your life & things cant get better no matter what & you're 100% sure of this, then I see no reason to question someones choice of doing the so called drug that could be their demise if that demise is better than what they are going threw in life.

Bottom line, let them be & if ths drug brings this person more happiness in life than anything before or current has to offer, then why not.........

agree 100%. heroin/opiates are just as safe as weed/alcohol/nicotine any day but there has always been a stigma attached to H use
its a fuckin joke really

 

[SkagKush]

to The Lost Boys......i find it funny how a member on BL with over 1000 posts thinks that IV ROA is disgusting.........

 

[kokaino]

See, I plan on using morphine one day but as far as shooting it up with a needle, its never gonna happen, at least I hope not.......even tho shooting up morphine is the best way to do it, I still wont because of how disgusting I think that method is, besides that, I hate needles & so do most people, that is why heroin is looked down upon so harshly..

Heroin is a morphine prodrug which means that morphine is actually the drug that gets you high. So doing morphine IV is exactly like doing heroin IV - except heroin is quicker acting because heroin is the morphine molecule with 2 acetyl groups added which make morphine quicker acting. Another name for heroin is Morphine Acetate.

 

[verso]

I just have a hard time believing that using heroin responsibly and in such a way as to avoid physical dependence and addiction is impossible.

It may be hard to imagine, but isn't the same true for nearly every substance, even alcohol? I mean, a certain percentage will become alcoholics but the majority will not.

EDIT: I mean, what the hell, why wouldn't we say the same thing to sociable drinkers? "No way, man! That's how it all starts! First, you'll be drinking only at parties, then on weekends, and then before you know it you'll be a full-blown alcoholic!" O RLY?

 

[TheLostBoys]

to The Lost Boys......i find it funny how a member on BL with over 1000 posts thinks that IV ROA is disgusting.........

Why do you find it funny that I find IV disgusting? I hate needles & I think they are gross. I just cant contemplate how someone can stick a needle in their arm or what ever other body part several times a day to get high. I dont know how I would handle being diabetic & having to use the needle every day.

Just because I find it disgusting doesnt mean I find drugs disgusting. Will I ever do the needle thing? I hope not but you never know......imo, I think I will never go that route but doesnt mean I will disrespect anyone using the needle as their way of getting high. If thats how you roll, more power to you, its just not my thing.

 

[verso]

Why do you find it funny that I find IV disgusting? I hate needles & I think they are gross. I just cant contemplate how someone can stick a needle in their arm or what ever other body part several times a day to get high. I dont know how I would handle being diabetic & having to use the needle every day.

Just because I find it disgusting doesnt mean I find drugs disgusting. Will I ever do the needle thing? I hope not but you never know......imo, I think I will never go that route but doesnt mean I will disrespect anyone using the needle as their way of getting high. If thats how you roll, more power to you, its just not my thing.

I feel the same way, man. I hang out with people who shoot up, and sometimes they'll do it in front of me. It's not something that I'm into, but I don't hate on others for it. I don't look down on other people for it.

And heroin does become a whole different animal when you IV it. People talk about "the rush," right? It's always "the rush" that people seem to chase. Well, to experience that rush, you need to IV heroin. Why? Because heroin metabolizes very, very quickly into morphine, and morphine does not cross the bbb as quickly as heroin. In other words, heroin is like morphine in a sports car. When a user IVs heroin, heroin reaches their brain before metabolizing into morphine. Then it does the Trojan Horse thing, metabolizes into morphine and fills those connectors in the brain all at once -- that's "the rush." Snorting heroin, my preferred roa, results in heroin's metabolizing into morphine before reaching the brain. So, it's essentially like taking morphine. I feel good, real good, but there's no "rush" really.

So trust me, I understand your feelings completely. I just don't like the idea of shooting up.