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Bupe Suboxone/Buprenorphine FAQ & Megathread v3; 2010 - 2022

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Thanks for the reply Amapola, I'm thinkin' along the same line as well, probably get tons more effect if I'd wait til tomorrow morning when the withdrawal is a bit worse. If it weren't for our varied metabolisms, I'd make an in-depth time-line chart regarding withdrawal symptoms, bupe levels and time table :P Ah well, like they say, ''When in doubt, wait." Thanks again for the reply, I'll let you all know how it works out :D
 
When mixing up an 8mg Subutex tablet, I've always used 0.8mL of water, 10 units representing 1mg of bupe. Is this enough water? How much does everyone else generally use?
 
jeez 8mg for 1ml of water? That doesn't seem nearly enough at all... i dont even know if a whole sub can dissolve into that little of water
 
I've been dosing .5-1mg subs daily for over a yr now [after a taper] and yesterday I had a horrible tooth ache and 2 mg didn't touch it.

Long story short... I took 2 mg more twice about 30 minutes apart each. Total 6mg and not only did it knock out a 7.5-8 pain scale tooth ache... but I nodded for about 4 hrs. Totally surprised. Not about pain relief but the nod. Comforting to know I have a bunch of pain meds if needed... especially since i have history of kidney stones. Anyway, I might try this again in about 2-3 weeks just to see what happens. I'm sure if tried again today or tommorrow it wouldn't be as good. BTW I also had 1mg xanax which is my normal dose when not taking prescribed K-pins.... so that probably potentiated.
 
When I was running by the lake, river, forest, and swamps this morning, out to collect the last of a 2 liter portion of birch sap, I came to think of something related to some of Caseface99's claims. In general, it seems that he finds that his bupe usually only works on him properly after exercising. @Caseface - rock climbing, right?

I came to think, that the times I have exercised have also synergized the effects of the bupe. It's mainly A) endorphine and dopamine production related and B) psychological - basically just does wonders both physically and psychologically, to get things flowing, and going, the factory up and running - a nice fresh balance of energy that makes space for the days ingestion of food, drink and substance. And it's good for you to exercise, anyway, anyhow - I even supplemented it with a fat skunk spliff half-way while packing up the sap and thanking the birch tree for it's 4 days worth of bleeding patience with me (next time, bigger bottle, less time).

But in terms of Caseface claiming that the effects are stronger felt after exercise, I might hypothesize that it is due to the opiates water-retention effects on cells (this is the thought that came to mind while running), that the new bupe is better felt after excercise and physical activitity, because A) cells are depleted of old water and replenished if enough water is drank before, during and after exercise and dosing, and B) Buprenorphine HCl is water soluble, and will have better effect if cells are 'thirstier' so to speak. Exercise might break the barrier that is blocking the new bupe's full potential, due to the water-retention effects of the previous dose of bupe, which may last longer than the desired effects depending on a persons ROA, exercise and food/water intake habits.

Anyways, the water-retention as a slight blockage effect, coupled with the endorphine and dopamine production, and increased blood circulation while maintaining sufficient hydration was the thought that came to mind while running... I also feel that exercise greatly improves the effects of the bupe. But this could essentially be directly psychological, and maybe one should just see it as it is solely the exercise that makes one feel better. This way jumping off bupe, and continuing exercise habits is also more likely. Because one can convince one self of so many things. I think that is why, amongst so many other things, the word placebo was invented... So on that note, I'll round off, and I'm not implying anything to anyone (that it's all in your head and that sort of thing), but I wanted to share my thought with y'all.
 
^I just want to comment that bupe seems to make me exercise compulsively if I haven't taken it in awhile, and it is pretty much guaranteed if I take bupe randomly and smoke/ vape a hit or two of marijuana... Anyway, regardless of the mechanism of action, I suspect the general mood enhancement given from exercise is largely responsible for the difference in effects due to exercise.
 
WARNING: Quite a bit of a text and some serious questions below. Don't both to read if you don't know much about the sub program in the US or if you don't wish to contribute seriously. Not that any BLers would do that, but I just really need some reassurance before my first ever Suboxone appointment tomorrow.

I know this is discussed often, but I haven't been studying bupe for long enough to really know, so if you guys could help me answer a few questions, I'd appreciate it. I'm going into a clinic on Friday (tomorrow) for my first Suboxone appointment, and hopefully that'll be the start of my taper to sobriety and the end of my opiate addiction...but anyway, I'm just wondering what exactly I should expect when I go in? I've read that typically you go in, fill out paperwork, answer a bunch of questions about usage, typically take a piss test or rarely a blood test, and then get your first dose of bupe. Is that about how it goes?

Also, I have a few concerns about the particular clinic I'm going to. I was referred to them by another clinic that only offers counseling (something that doesn't seem to do me much good), so I went ahead and made an appointment with them without really looking into the place much. I did some snooping on Google and found all poor reviews of the Sub clinic, 5 ratings that were all 1 star, saying things like that she thinks all drugs are the devil and she's hard to work with. This concerns me for a few reasons.

1. I'm a pothead and have been for 3 years. It's going to show if she tests me (and I hear she's a stickler on that), and I'm concerned that this might upset her and I may either be denied treatment or forced to give up the ganj. I can quit smoking if it helps me get over this opiate addiction, but being thrown out of treatment altogether would be misery.

2. I have a prescription currently that I've had for a little over 4 months for .5mg Xanax 4x daily because I have bad general and social anxiety and had been succumbing to panic attacks recently. Anyway, is there any chance my sub doc might want my Xanax dose lowered or taken away? It really helps me function and I don't know how I'd do without it (believe me, I've tried anti-depressants, herbal remedies, and a few pharmaceuticals, and nothing can actually calm me down like a Xanax, not even opioids).

3. The complaints about her are kind of nonspecific, but they lead me to believe that she treats her patients as if they're worthless junkies and doesn't work with them on a sensible taper schedule. Now this is just speculation, and I'm hoping it's wrong, but what if I get either denied sub or forced to taper in a very short period of time and still go through those awful withdrawals?

BTW for reference, my current opiate tolerance is roughly 3-4 roxy 30s per day, about 8-12 (however many I could get) hydro 10/325s in a day, about 150-200mg of morphine, and somewhere around 20-30mg of Opana. It used to be a lot worse, and I think that's why I constantly have prolonged withdrawals no matter what I try to taper to or quit with, or even if I go cold turkey and stay sober for months. I've never felt quite right since I started my big Opana binges about a year ago (doing up to 50-60mg in a sitting, often with Xanax or phenazepam, as well as the classic potentiators of GFJ, cimetidine, diphenhydramine, chlorpheniramine, doxylamine, phenibut, lopermide, DXM, sometimes boooze, etc, dope fiends will know what I mean). I'm just wondering how anyone thinks this sub program will pan out for me and how long I'll be able to/need to stay on the sub before I achieve stability? I'm guessing with my tolerance now I'll need around 4-8mg daily to start the taper, and I want to do it slowly so as to ease my symptoms. I just hope my doctor will be as gentle on me as I'd like her to. Any thoughts? BTW, sorry for rambling, did my final Roxy before Sub rehab early this morning.
 
@ your first question about what to expect when you go in. yeah, that's about right. you'll want to be perfectly honest about how much you use, or even maybe say you use a little more than you actually do because most sub docs that I've worked with are pill crazy. they will throw you way more than you actually need to maintain/taper. but thats a good thing, you can ALWAYS use extra pills for a rainy day or whatever.

1. All sub docs are different, I've been to one who will actually prescribe benzos while youre on the sub and I've also been to one who tests religiously and if you fail for anything other than Bupe more than 3 times youre out flat. so it really is totally up in the air.

2. same thing as #1, your doc may want you to get off of the xanax, or she might not. just be honest with her and tell her you need it to sleep or whatever it is your using it for.

3. like I said before, the only constant thing I've found in sub docs is that they all seem to want to throw tons of pills at you. (one doc started me on 24mg a day! the MOST I ever took was 8mg a day) so if you embellish your use a little bit then you can get extra pills from them that way if she does decide to toss you out or whatever you can still taper safely.


another point I'd like to make is unless you're in like a really rural area somewhere, there should be multiple Suboxone doctors in your area. if you don't like this one, try another one. some of these docs are only out for the cash and generally don't treat patients very well. but there are a few (at least in my area) that genuinely care about your well being and want to help you. look for one of those if you can.

edit:

Any thoughts? BTW, sorry for rambling, did my final Roxy before Sub rehab early this morning.
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make sure you tell the doc that you used before you went in! otherwise you might just end up in precipitated withdrawls. you always want to wait at a minimum of 12 hours before using sub after a full agonist. with oxycodone 12 hours should be ok. however depending on what opiate you use though it could be anywhere up to 48 hours that you need to wait.
 
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I didn't mean I had the appointment today. I have it tomorrow. I was having my last dose so I'm not too far in W/D when I go in.
 
catcalls said:
Hi Forum,

Just like to state that I took my Subutex dose (3.6mg) at 10.30am with no pwd whatsoever.

Quite pleased with it too since yesterday I triple dosed methadone.

Someone on here said I'd have to wait 3 days before taking Subutex again. That was incorrect.

Not sure why they said that. Perhaps because of the old knowledge that being on Methadone and changing over to Subutex, it is best to wait.

But, just so you know...you can take Subutex regularly, and sip the odd methadone every now and again to catch a real nice effect.

Peace out and love in.
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If one has a opioid addiction takes Methadone one day and the day after doses Buprenorphine they will be in such agony from acute withdrawal.
I don't know why you got lucky, maybe you aren't physically addicted?
 
Quick question. I usually sniff my subs basically so i can control my sub dose each day and do a minimal amount since it seems to be stronger than sublingually that way. but do these strips have a better sublingually BA than the tablets? If so i may try to switch to those, but then I wouldnt be able to sniff them easily if its the same BA
 
Out of curiosity, how much diacetylmorphine no. 3 do those of you that use dope while on buprenorphine need to use in a single dose, if let's say you were stable at 1-1.5 mg bupe? Let's say you want to break through with a single shot @ around 9-12 hrs after last bupe ingestion...
I want to do a comparison with my previous experiences. Assuming a purity of 50-60%... Even answers from people experienced but stable at other doses of bupe are legit... bring 'em on!
 
bwanajzj said:
When I was running by the lake, river, forest, and swamps this morning, out to collect the last of a 2 liter portion of birch sap, I came to think of something related to some of Caseface99's claims. In general, it seems that he finds that his bupe usually only works on him properly after exercising. @Caseface - rock climbing, right?

I came to think, that the times I have exercised have also synergized the effects of the bupe. It's mainly A) endorphine and dopamine production related and B) psychological - basically just does wonders both physically and psychologically, to get things flowing, and going, the factory up and running - a nice fresh balance of energy that makes space for the days ingestion of food, drink and substance. And it's good for you to exercise, anyway, anyhow - I even supplemented it with a fat skunk spliff half-way while packing up the sap and thanking the birch tree for it's 4 days worth of bleeding patience with me (next time, bigger bottle, less time).

But in terms of Caseface claiming that the effects are stronger felt after exercise, I might hypothesize that it is due to the opiates water-retention effects on cells (this is the thought that came to mind while running), that the new bupe is better felt after excercise and physical activitity, because A) cells are depleted of old water and replenished if enough water is drank before, during and after exercise and dosing, and B) Buprenorphine HCl is water soluble, and will have better effect if cells are 'thirstier' so to speak. Exercise might break the barrier that is blocking the new bupe's full potential, due to the water-retention effects of the previous dose of bupe, which may last longer than the desired effects depending on a persons ROA, exercise and food/water intake habits.

Anyways, the water-retention as a slight blockage effect, coupled with the endorphine and dopamine production, and increased blood circulation while maintaining sufficient hydration was the thought that came to mind while running... I also feel that exercise greatly improves the effects of the bupe. But this could essentially be directly psychological, and maybe one should just see it as it is solely the exercise that makes one feel better. This way jumping off bupe, and continuing exercise habits is also more likely. Because one can convince one self of so many things. I think that is why, amongst so many other things, the word placebo was invented... So on that note, I'll round off, and I'm not implying anything to anyone (that it's all in your head and that sort of thing), but I wanted to share my thought with y'all.
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It may have been more that i was generating naturally occurring endocannabinoids/endorphins and shit for the first time in a while, especially since i was also withdrawing at the time from my taper the slightest amount of natural feel good chemicals in my brain would have made a difference.
 
caseface99 said:
It may have been more that i was generating naturally occurring endocannabinoids/endorphins and shit for the first time in a while, especially since i was also withdrawing at the time from my taper the slightest amount of natural feel good chemicals in my brain would have made a difference.
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That's also what it does for me... I have found Buprenorphine tapering difficult to deal with, and I am way past the deadline for being clean that I set in the beginning. It's been bumpy, but I've also been messy. Anyways, exercise always makes me feel so good, and especially when it provides positive results... In my hood, there's so much nature, that I get that rush together with a run, and nature + exercise are a great fucking combo. I bike some hundreds of kilometers a month, and I run once in a while, push ups, but nothing really too crazy, but still during the taper, things like my circulation has improved, breathing, and although I'm skinny, I'm still able to see muscle tone and vigor and strength coming along, that wasn't there before, and that coupled with the release of natural feel good brain chemicals when and after exercising are just wonderful for the rough ride down the bupe slope... But I do think that the effects that buprenorphine have on mood and energy levels is greatly effected by the amount of exercise. The more of each, the better ;) HAha, no, but I was just trying to hypothesize something about hydration, dehydration and the water retention effect of opiates on cells... a thought that came about, and you came to mind in terms of the exercise, rehydrating and feeling all buped and better. Oh, and not to forget ones diet... Mine has been almost too healthy recently... I had a rough time digesting a bunch of beef that I had for lunch today, as I have been eating mainly vegetarian the past many months while tapering. All in all just feeels goood to eat good, exercise good, and manage a taper of bupe... and the jump to come soon... then exercise is really going to be the key to getting through!
 
^^^ In terms of comparison, I IV'd 100 mg's diacetylmorphine # 3 using bacteriostatic water and citric acid and felt a slight rush, got the idea, and then IV'd the same amount two hours later. And prior to that I had tested it by snorting about 50 mg's. All this about 10 hours after my last dose of bupe, at the time stable at around 1-1.5 mg /day (it's been a bit variable lately, been a bit of a wreck about my use of bupe). I'm just thinking that is 1-1.5 mg bupe really that much that a quarter gram of IV'd heroin taken within a couple of hours barely has an effect, but half an hour or so of worthwhileness, and then impatience and wanting more... Can it really be? If so, then why the hell does one need 16 mg/day to begin with jumping from a 0.5 g/day habit?
 
then why the hell does one need 16 mg/day to begin with
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Almost nobody needs this much bupe for any habit to prevent withdrawal symptoms. It's a combination of drug companies wanting to make more money, doctors wanting to make sure you don't use anything else, and users want to "feel" the bupe to help reduce cravings. There are lots of threads dedicated purely to this point.
 
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