Misc Are antipsychotics neurotoxic?

[Amu]

I've often used antipsychotics for certain side effects (withdrawl depression/mood swings / irritability), and I'm wondering how neurotoxic you think they are.

This is the only study I found: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15756305

 

[sekio]

Which antipsychotics? What do you define as 'neurotoxicity'? They definitely produce changes in the brain, but I don't think they cause cell death in the same way some neurotoxins do.

 

[NeighborhoodThreat]

It really does depend on how you define 'neurotoxicity', as sekio mentioned.

Which antipsychotics are you taking?

 

[Amu]

It really does depend on how you define 'neurotoxicity', as sekio mentioned.

Which antipsychotics are you taking?

I'm taking Abilify, but the question would apply to other antipsychotics. I guess by neurotoxic I mean producing any harmful effect on the brain such as brain volume reduction, cell damage, memory/intelligence damage, etc...

Also, I wonder if MJ can be safely used with Abilify, whether they interfere with each other or not. I don't want to block the effects of either drug.

 

[Jabberwocky]

Are tardive dyskinesia or neurolyptic malignant syndrome neurotoxic?

One of the big problems here is that human AP usage is most consistantly studied in schizophrenics who tend to have cognitive defecits, enlarged ventricles (decreased brain mass), and the like even when unexposed to APs.

I'd say to not use APs in place of sedatives because APs are more complicated with more problems. If you need an AP for psychosis or mania than I'd take the AP. I think APs as adjunct treatments for depression is more big pharma hype than a good practice but a lot of genuine experts would disagree with me on that.

 

[enoughorangejuice?]

Long term (5+ years) of moderate-to-high dose antipsychotics is known to potentially cause irreversible damage to the central nervous system (aka. tardive dykensia). This was the main reason I stopped taking olanzapine and went back to SSRIs.

You have to weigh the pros and cons of being on an antipsychotic. If you take them for schizophrenia or bi-polar disorder the pros probably outweigh the cons, but if you use them for anxiety/depression I think you are better off using something more conservative like Prozac, Wellbutrin, Zoloft, etc. And only as a LAST RESORT use an atypical antipsychotic for anxiety/depression if you have exhausted all of the SSRIs/SNRIs/etc. without anything helping you. Doctors are prescribing antipsychotics WAY to liberally to people suffering from anxiety and depression which in my mind is extremely irresponsible and dangerous.

 

[Amu]

Long term (5+ years) of moderate-to-high dose antipsychotics is known to potentially cause irreversible damage to the central nervous system (aka. tardive dykensia). This was the main reason I stopped taking olanzapine and went back to SSRIs.

You have to weigh the pros and cons of being on an antipsychotic. If you take them for schizophrenia or bi-polar disorder the pros probably outweigh the cons, but if you use them for anxiety/depression I think you are better off using something more conservative like Prozac, Wellbutrin, Zoloft, etc. And only as a LAST RESORT use an atypical antipsychotic for anxiety/depression if you have exhausted all of the SSRIs/SNRIs/etc. without anything helping you. Doctors are prescribing antipsychotics WAY to liberally to people suffering from anxiety and depression which in my mind is extremely irresponsible and dangerous.

That's exactly what I was wondering about. Weighing the pros and cons is even harder with Abilify because we don't know that much about the drug, I'm currently on 4 mg of it, trying it out for two weeks to see what happens. Is that considered a "medium-to-high" dose? I tried the maximum dose of Celexa/Lexapro and decided SSRIs weren't going to work, so I thought Abilify would be a good addition, but I guess that's just pharma hype.

 

[panic in paradise]

they use Haldol in the hospitals here as a pain-reliever; just a reminder to ask what they are giving you, or have some who can if you can not...

im all for oxy free ER's (which they arent) but... dayum.

 

[dokomo]

Are tardive dyskinesia or neurolyptic malignant syndrome neurotoxic?

One of the big problems here is that human AP usage is most consistantly studied in schizophrenics who tend to have cognitive defecits, enlarged ventricles (decreased brain mass), and the like even when unexposed to APs.

I'd say to not use APs in place of sedatives because APs are more complicated with more problems. If you need an AP for psychosis or mania than I'd take the AP. I think APs as adjunct treatments for depression is more big pharma hype than a good practice but a lot of genuine experts would disagree with me on that.

This man speaks the truth. In terms of their use as an adjunct to depression, the science really isn't strong. You have an array of pharmaceutical company-funded and conducted studies, questionable methodology, samples, etc.

It truly angers me every time I see an Abilify commercial, where they're trying to get someone to add it on in addition to their current antidepressant medication. SO many people see that commercial and immediately start asking for it, with no clue about side effects and actual efficacy whatsoever.

 

[Amu]

This man speaks the truth. In terms of their use as an adjunct to depression, the science really isn't strong. You have an array of pharmaceutical company-funded and conducted studies, questionable methodology, samples, etc.

It truly angers me every time I see an Abilify commercial, where they're trying to get someone to add it on in addition to their current antidepressant medication. SO many people see that commercial and immediately start asking for it, with no clue about side effects and actual efficacy whatsoever.

So do you think it's dangerous to give it a try? Or are you against long-term use? I mean it's a hit-and-miss for pretty much most antidepressant treatments, so as long as the side effects don't cause permanent toxicity, wouldn't it be worth it to add it on to your current antidepressant? I'm aware of the risk of tardive dyskinesia, weight gain, diabetes, prolactin increase, the chances of all four are supposed to be minimal with the so-called "third-generation" Abilify, but we can't be sure.

 

[Jabberwocky]

Bupropion is a good adjunct for people who don't have a seizure risk or other problems, thyroid hormone is a decent adjunct, if sleeplessness is a problem trazadone might be a decent adjunct, there are others. All three of these have the advantage of being inexpensive. Adding an additional agent is always going to increase risks.

I predict that after the patent runs out on abilify it will be pulled off the market or said to be very problematic and become devalued in a great deal of pharma sponsored journals. I know a huge number of people who have reacted to it very badly. Stuff is almost always the wondrous silver bullet when under patent than fades out after patent expires.