I feel like I have no control over feelings that arise

[thesoundofmotion]

in certain situations.

Where would this lie in terms of philosophical idealogies and what does it mean?

Well for instance I see someone that sexually arouses me or perhaps someone who angers me. I can't control the actual feeling from arising within me.

Perhaps what I do with the feeling and how I act on it is something I can control but for the actual feeling arising itself (for whatever reasons) it doesn't seem like I'm in control of that.

Thoughts?

 

[malakaix]

It's arising because it needs to be addressed..

The feelings you feel are aspects of yourself you have denied and suppressed into your subconsciousness, these aspects will show up in other people.

You have to be aware that when these feelings arise, they are yours. Those people are not the source of your anger, those people are reflecting aspects of yourself you have denied. Recognizing and understanding this process is crucial for self-development.. everyone has 'shadow aspects' (parts of them-self they have denied out of shame or disgust) and other people often bring this up in the form of emotion, both good and bad.

I'll use the classic example of homophobic people, they hate gay people because it disgusts them on such a personal level that they've denied that entire aspect of themselves all-together. So whenever they see gay people they lash out and attack them because those gay people are bringing up that disgust in themselves that they've worked so hard to deny.

The better you understand this process, the more capable you are of understanding why such feelings arise.. which will lead towards resolution.

This is ever on-going.. as long as your human you'll have aspects of yourself that are fragmented and denied; this is the journey of self-discovery.. it's through learning and understanding ourselves on an intimate level that we evolve and progress as self-aware beings.

 

[Talksick]

It's arising because it needs to be addressed..

The feelings you feel are aspects of yourself you have denied and suppressed into your subconsciousness, these aspects will show up in other people.

You have to be aware that when these feelings arise, they are yours. Those people are not the source of your anger, those people are reflecting aspects of yourself you have denied. Recognizing and understanding this process is crucial for self-development.. everyone has 'shadow aspects' (parts of them-self they have denied out of shame or disgust) and other people often bring this up in the form of emotion, both good and bad.

I'll use the classic example of homophobic people, they hate gay people because it disgusts them on such a personal level that they've denied that entire aspect of themselves all-together. So whenever they see gay people they lash out and attack them because those gay people are bringing up that disgust in themselves that they've worked so hard to deny.

The better you understand this process, the more capable you are of understanding why such feelings arise.. which will lead towards resolution.

This is ever on-going.. as long as your human you'll have aspects of yourself that are fragmented and denied; this is the journey of self-discovery.. it's through learning and understanding ourselves on an intimate level that we evolve and progress as self-aware beings.

Brilliant!

I couldn't agree more. I usually find that people like this that I encounter in my life are a very extreme example. I'm reading a book by Carlos Castaneda where he calls these types of people petty tyrants. I find it hard to detach myself from the emotions that they stir up, and I have come to believe that these people are a great gift because it teaches you to brush shit off and also a lot about yourself. It is interesting though because since they are so extreme it is hard to find any similarity to yourself, but if you can then consider yourself lucky because you are that much closer to understanding.
&

 

[thesoundofmotion]

It's arising because it needs to be addressed..

The feelings you feel are aspects of yourself you have denied and suppressed into your subconsciousness, these aspects will show up in other people.

You have to be aware that when these feelings arise, they are yours. Those people are not the source of your anger, those people are reflecting aspects of yourself you have denied. Recognizing and understanding this process is crucial for self-development.. everyone has 'shadow aspects' (parts of them-self they have denied out of shame or disgust) and other people often bring this up in the form of emotion, both good and bad.

I'll use the classic example of homophobic people, they hate gay people because it disgusts them on such a personal level that they've denied that entire aspect of themselves all-together. So whenever they see gay people they lash out and attack them because those gay people are bringing up that disgust in themselves that they've worked so hard to deny.

The better you understand this process, the more capable you are of understanding why such feelings arise.. which will lead towards resolution.

This is ever on-going.. as long as your human you'll have aspects of yourself that are fragmented and denied; this is the journey of self-discovery.. it's through learning and understanding ourselves on an intimate level that we evolve and progress as self-aware beings.

good post. thanks.

 

[Pegasus]

Where would this lie in terms of philosophical idealogies and what does it mean?

IMO, this is determinism.

 

[Psyduck]

^ I think the autonomy-heteronomy "problem" will suit better.

 

[yougene]

Freudian theories of dis-identification are immediately relevant as are many other theories of self(e.g triume brain, hegel, etc...)

 

[skillz~4~thrillz]

It's arising because it needs to be addressed..

The feelings you feel are aspects of yourself you have denied and suppressed into your subconsciousness, these aspects will show up in other people.

You have to be aware that when these feelings arise, they are yours. Those people are not the source of your anger, those people are reflecting aspects of yourself you have denied. Recognizing and understanding this process is crucial for self-development.. everyone has 'shadow aspects' (parts of them-self they have denied out of shame or disgust) and other people often bring this up in the form of emotion, both good and bad.

I'll use the classic example of homophobic people, they hate gay people because it disgusts them on such a personal level that they've denied that entire aspect of themselves all-together. So whenever they see gay people they lash out and attack them because those gay people are bringing up that disgust in themselves that they've worked so hard to deny.

The better you understand this process, the more capable you are of understanding why such feelings arise.. which will lead towards resolution.

This is ever on-going.. as long as your human you'll have aspects of yourself that are fragmented and denied; this is the journey of self-discovery.. it's through learning and understanding ourselves on an intimate level that we evolve and progress as self-aware beings.

Excellent reply. I would like to point out more on the psychological aspect of feelings...M.Scott Peck M.D. talks about the biology of feelings in his book "The Road Less Traveled". It reminds us that while emotions absolutely reflect quite often the same feelings that an individual feels about him/herself,that emotions are no different than the chemical reactions that occur in our brain when we take drugs. There is another book called "If Life is a Game,these are the Rules" by Cherie Carter-Scott PhD(it is not a very "meaty" book and is more self help than philosophy or psychology) but rule #7 sums this point up perfectly.
"Rule #7:
Others are merely mirrors of you.
You cannot love or hate something about another person unless it reflects something you love or hate about yourself."

That took me some time to swallow but once I accepted it and began to admit this truth in my life,it became so obvious.

Ken Wilbur, "American author who has written about adult development, developmental psychology, philosophy, worldcentrism, ecology, and stages of faith. His work formulates what he calls Integral Theory.[1] In 1998, he founded the Integral Institute, for teaching and applications of Integral theory[2]" (source)
btw-i rarely use Wikipedia as a source,as I like to find less trendy references, but I was researching some other of Wilbur's books last night and this is a pretty "spot on" overall explanation of what he so brilliantly achieves in his writings. His work is very pertinent to this topic.

 

[malakaix]

"Rule #7:
Others are merely mirrors of you.
You cannot love or hate something about another person unless it reflects something you love or hate about yourself."

I like that description.

Ken Wilbur, "American author who has written about adult development, developmental psychology, philosophy, worldcentrism, ecology, and stages of faith. His work formulates what he calls Integral Theory.[1] In 1998, he founded the Integral Institute, for teaching and applications of Integral theory[2]" (source)
btw-i rarely use Wikipedia as a source,as I like to find less trendy references, but I was researching some other of Wilbur's books last night and this is a pretty "spot on" overall explanation of what he so brilliantly achieves in his writings. His work is very pertinent to this topic.

I highly second this recommendation.

Ken Wilber's work with Integral Theory has been a prominent part of my life for the past few years, and has helped me understand different stages of my own development.

 

[TheAppleCore]

This isn't really philosophy. This is just basic psychology, or biology. Emotional reactions are hardwired. We can't control them.

 

[skillz~4~thrillz]

semantics

~just one of many definitions for the word Philosophy.

 

[AfterGlow]

What I learned when I read about vipassana meditation was that you should not even attempt to control the feelings that arise. It's perfectly natural for all kinds of feelings to arise within you. What you should do is mindfully observe the feelings rising in you, existing for a period of time and then subsiding on their own as events unfold and require your attention and new feelings arise. Don't try to hold onto good feelings and don't try to avoid bad feelings. Accept that feelings just are and that you will feel them. They will come and they will go. Be mindful of them. Don't try to control them. You can't. What you CAN control is your BEHAVIOR. Focus on that.

 

[skillz~4~thrillz]

right on!

What I learned when I read about vipassana meditation was that you should not even attempt to control the feelings that arise. It's perfectly natural for all kinds of feelings to arise within you. What you should do is mindfully observe the feelings rising in you, existing for a period of time and then subsiding on their own as events unfold and require your attention and new feelings arise. Don't try to hold onto good feelings and don't try to avoid bad feelings. Accept that feelings just are and that you will feel them. They will come and they will go. Be mindful of them. Don't try to control them. You can't. What you CAN control is your BEHAVIOR. Focus on that.

Great response. I was hoping that the discussion would soon turn in this direction.
My understanding of this came through reading Viktor Frankl's "Man's Search for Meaning".
* Dr Frankl,a respected Austrian neurologist and psychiatrist born in Vienna to a Jewish family and wrote this book after surviving 3 years in several concentration camps during WW II.
The 1st part of the book details his observations and overall experience while in these camps. (source)

The 2nd part to Frankl's book introduces his theory to logotherapy, the basics of which are these 3 points.
~Life has meaning under all circumstances, even the most miserable ones.
~Our main motivation for living is our will to find meaning in life.
~We have freedom to find meaning in what we do, and what we experience, or at least in the stand we take when faced with a situation of unchangeable suffering. (source)

* Frankl concludes from his experience that a prisoner's psychological reactions are not solely the result of the conditions of his life, but also from the freedom of choice he always has even in severe suffering.(source)

The emotions that arise in us throughout our lives are inexorable regardless of what those emotions may be. However, it is in the way we chose to react to those emotions that we achieve meaning in life through every experience,both individual experiences and collectively throughout life.

 

[CoffeeDrinker]

Our thoughts cause our emotions. It's a fallacy that you can't control them, but it is very difficult for most people.
It's what Cognitive behavioral therapy is all about.

 

[AfterGlow]

Our thoughts cause our emotions. It's a fallacy that you can't control them, but it is very difficult for most people.
It's what Cognitive behavioral therapy is all about.

I'm not sure I totally agree with you. There are instinctive emotions that you feel without consciously thinking. Sure, you can think yourself into a bad mood or depression. And through positive reinforced thinking, you can improve your overall mood and your outlook. But you can't stop emotions from happening altogether. You can learn to deal with them and not be overcome by them. CBT doesn't try to teach you to avoid emotions. It's teaches you to recognize them and behave accordingly.

 

[CoffeeDrinker]

Yeah I left my statement as just stating a fact (or consensus, rather) without supporting and elaborating it. I can see where there is misunderstanding.
I never said it teaches you to avoid emotions, and I never said that you can stop them. I said you can control them, no matter who you are (barring some fundamental mental problem).

Why shouldn't you try to hamper a self-destructive cycle of emotions? That seems like purely an ideological artifact.

What I mean is that your thoughts are responsible for the particular emotion that arises. It is your preconceived notion about any given thing or event that determines your emotion about said thing or event. You said it yourself that you can think yourself into depression or a good outlook. I agree.

How you feel about something is intimately linked with how you think about something. By examining your preconceived notions or thoughts you can find the root of what is causing a certain feeling to arise. Now just by identifying the root doesn't mean the emotion will go away, but it does put a chink in the cycle of thoughts feeding emotions which feeds thoughts etc. and it does allow you to realize that you are not simply having these reactions for no reason at all. If you never realize this you probably do feel powerless to control your emotions.
The complete cycle goes something like this: your existing beliefs or thoughts are already in your head, an event happens, based on that event and your thoughts you feel a certain way, based on that feeling your body reacts a certain way involuntarily, then it causes you to behave in a certain way, which has a certain set of consequences based on what you choose to do, which will affect your thoughts in the future. In this way emotions and the thoughts that lead to them can be reinforced just by their sheer presence, strengthening their hold on your brain. They can get you in a downward spiral if you let it go unexamined and un-worked on.

Also there is usually a finite set of behaviors that accompanies any given emotion. Self destructive patters following severe depression all tend to go down the same general path, etc.
By identifying what it is you are most likely to do once you feel a certain way you can then choose to do something that will mitigate the feeling instead of reinforce the feeling. In this way you can control your emotions as soon as they arise, but you can also condition yourself to not be so bothered by things in the first place by working on your thoughts about things.

 

[yougene]

What I learned when I read about vipassana meditation was that you should not even attempt to control the feelings that arise. It's perfectly natural for all kinds of feelings to arise within you. What you should do is mindfully observe the feelings rising in you, existing for a period of time and then subsiding on their own as events unfold and require your attention and new feelings arise. Don't try to hold onto good feelings and don't try to avoid bad feelings. Accept that feelings just are and that you will feel them. They will come and they will go. Be mindful of them. Don't try to control them. You can't. What you CAN control is your BEHAVIOR. Focus on that.

This still leads to neurosis in that it affirms a disidentificaiton between ego and emotions. This might be fine when in a state of witnessing but it's nice to have a healthy functional self to witness and navigate the world.

Not to say that vipassana doesn't compliment shadow work. Having a method that lets feelings come and go freely is of great benefit to shadow work. Shadow work also assists people in making attainable identity shifts which greases the groove to making a shift to the Witness.

 

[EmotionalContagion]

Where would this lie in terms of philosophical idealogies and what does it mean?

I think lots of people replying here are confusing philosophy with psychology (by looking at the answers).

Care of the Self is the thought process that happens within our minds every day. We don't know why or where these thoughts come from but it is a unique attribute that only humans have. No other non-human animal, primate or not, has possession of this power. Albeit, we don't know where this 'voice' comes from but all humans have it. Why do we think things we think? Where does it come from and can we control it?


If you want to look at this from a purely philosophical view, read Michel Foucault's;
'History of Sexuality: Introduction, The Uses of Pleasure, and Care of the Self'

Hope this helps.
(Sorry I haven't got more time to go into further detail)

 

[CoffeeDrinker]

How is "care of self" different than "survival instincts" in this case? Perhaps our ability to think is simply a survival instinct, just like any organism has a particular set of instincts unique to them that doesn't need to be taught by their parents, humans aren't taught to think or how to think (unless they are training for a particular skill, then they are taught how to think in relation to a particular task or situation).

 

[Changed]

I haven't read the above responses, but I'll offer this: you cannot control your thoughts-- even trying to control them is foolhardy, as it only deepens your frustrations.

Once you learn to accept that your thoughts are uncontrollable, you can start the process of observing thoughts as they arise and move on from them unimpeded. Once you start this process, distracting thoughts begin to arise less and less...

You are not your thoughts.