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The science behind breaks?

mgmt&mdma

mgmt&mdma

Bluelighter
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Feb 21, 2011
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So we all know, the longer you wait, the better your roll will be.
But today in school i was wondering - whats the science behind this?

I know that it takes like a month for your serotonin levels to get back to what they should be, so in that case couldnt you roll once a month and it'd still feel the same? (well disregaurding tolerance)

Is it that your 5HT receptors havent upregulated back to normal levels yet?
Sorry if this thread strikes you as an epic fail but i honestly wanna know what the science behind waiting is. (other than tolerance)

any infooooo?
 
Your brain stores excess serotonin for when you need it most. The longer you wait, the more time your body has to make more serotonin.
 
TearItDown said:
Your brain stores excess serotonin for when you need it most. The longer you wait, the more time your body has to make more serotonin.
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so how long does it take before your brain starts to stop conserving serotonin then (ideal time to roll again)?
 
I've always had the theory that "losing the magic", while receptor downregulation or some such college talk probably plays a role, is actually the psychological experience of becoming familiar with the experience, like overlistening to a really awesome song. From that approach, the longer the break the better, because you have more time to "forget" all the great little facets of the experience.
 
mgmt&mdma said:
so how long does it take before your brain starts to stop conserving serotonin then (ideal time to roll again)?
Click to expand...

The first time you roll is like the first time you flush a toilet (this is a bad analogy but roll with it). The serotonin (actually, not all of it, but a fair amount) goes whoooo flushing down the drain. After your "suicide sunday" (when your brain downregulates serotonin) it begins to start making more. Over time your brain adds more and more to it's storage centers. Most people say that you will be fine if you roll about once every month, however I don't think this is a long enough time to wait. If you wait longer you reduce the chances of depression (by depriving your body of serotonin as little as possible) and you make your roll better.
 
LockedNLoaded said:
I've always had the theory that "losing the magic", while receptor downregulation or some such college talk probably plays a role, is actually the psychological experience of becoming familiar with the experience, like overlistening to a really awesome song. From that approach, the longer the break the better, because you have more time to "forget" all the great little facets of the experience.
Click to expand...

yeah but its kinda hard to forget that experience ya know?

like when i listen to trance in the dark, or when im walking and a nice cool breeze hits me i think of ecstasy.

idk maybe ur right haha
 
I've always kind of thought of your serotonin receptors as trees with leaves and branches, and serotonin as birds. A tree normally has a couple birds flying to and from it. When you add MDMA, it's like a continuous flock of birds flying to and from the tree. The more birds, the more damage is done to the tree. Leaves fall, branches break, etc. After MDMA, the tree is left pretty damaged, so you need to let it re-grow before attacking it with birds again.

I've read a fuckton of different sources regarding how fast serotonin regenerates and nobody has ever come to a conclusive answer. Some say a week, two weeks... others say a month to 6 weeks... people who say 3 months are probably wrong. I honestly think it's only as high as 3 months if you abuse MDMA and have a shitty diet. With a proper diet that has a lot of amino acids (especially those that are high in tryptophan) your body can regenerate essential neurotransmitters more quickly.
 
Splinters Thoughts, With MasterSplinter

Its the same as scar tissue healing. You aint necessarily damaged nuthin but it still takes time to heal back up.

This is because you have flushed your brain of a large amount of serotonin...serotonin is created from regular activity and good food and exercise. But it aint created over night..

Just like growin back a full bush of pubes after a monthly trim, it takes time replenish.

Lack of Serotonin causes depression, anxiety, insomnia, apathy, loss of appetite, and exhaustion.


Some people dont give a fuck. If your rollin all the time your brain aint got no time to recover and it actually becomes "accustomed" to the lack of serotonin. In addition to having fried your receptor cites with oxidized peroxide, your axons will grow back in crackhead like ways. This is very bad.

Your brain will not be the same once the changes have adapted. You will notice your life seems "shittier" because your thought process is so incredibly skewed. Its a short road to do damage and a VERY long road to recovery.

Just take breaks. 3+ Months is optimal.
 
roganmaster said:
I've read a fuckton of different sources regarding how fast serotonin regenerates and nobody has ever come to a conclusive answer. Some say a week, two weeks... others say a month to 6 weeks... people who say 3 months are probably wrong. I honestly think it's only as high as 3 months if you abuse MDMA and have a shitty diet. With a proper diet that has a lot of amino acids (especially those that are high in tryptophan) your body can regenerate essential neurotransmitters more quickly.
Click to expand...

Well I don't know what sources you've been reading because it's been shown with out a doubt that "a week or two weeks" is not nearly enough time for your serotonin levels to recuperate if you are rolling every week or two weeks.
 
roganmaster said:
I've always kind of thought of your serotonin receptors as trees with leaves and branches, and serotonin as birds. A tree normally has a couple birds flying to and from it. When you add MDMA, it's like a continuous flock of birds flying to and from the tree. The more birds, the more damage is done to the tree. Leaves fall, branches break, etc. After MDMA, the tree is left pretty damaged, so you need to let it re-grow before attacking it with birds again.

I've read a fuckton of different sources regarding how fast serotonin regenerates and nobody has ever come to a conclusive answer. Some say a week, two weeks... others say a month to 6 weeks... people who say 3 months are probably wrong. I honestly think it's only as high as 3 months if you abuse MDMA and have a shitty diet. With a proper diet that has a lot of amino acids (especially those that are high in tryptophan) your body can regenerate essential neurotransmitters more quickly.
Click to expand...

hmm i like your analogy haha!=D

sounds good, ill make it 2 months minimum, MAYBE 3 months 8)
 
I hope someday there is advanced enough study to answer that question.
 
TearItDown said:
Well I don't know what sources you've been reading because it's been shown with out a doubt that "a week or two weeks" is not nearly enough time for your serotonin levels to recuperate if you are rolling every week or two weeks.
Click to expand...

Next time try reading the entire paragraph before shooting down what I said:

"honestly think it's only as high as 3 months if you abuse MDMA and have a shitty diet"

And nobody will know how long serotonin takes to regenerate until you can find a study that actually uses good science. Unfortunately, there hasn't been a study that I've seen regarding serotonin that can actually be applied to what we do on Bluelight. There are too many outside factors that will affect how quickly your body regenerates our brain's serotonin. If you're a skeezy rave troll who eats 8 pills a week and lives off 3am Taco Bell, then yeah you'll probably take as long as 3 months without MDMA before your serotonin has completely restored itself.

But if you're like me and only roll once every 8 weeks, lifts weights 5 days a week, and has a diet high in amino acids and anti-oxidants, I can guarantee you that my serotonin regenerates a lot faster than the "average" person and especially a lot faster than the MDMA abuser. That's exactly why so many different sources say so many different things, because nobody lives the same lifestyle and as a result, there is no magical waiting period that works for everyone.
 
roganmaster said:
Next time try reading the entire paragraph before shooting down what I said:

"honestly think it's only as high as 3 months if you abuse MDMA and have a shitty diet"

And nobody will know how long serotonin takes to regenerate until you can find a study that actually uses good science. Unfortunately, there hasn't been a study that I've seen regarding serotonin that can actually be applied to what we do on Bluelight. There are too many outside factors that will affect how quickly your body regenerates our brain's serotonin. If you're a skeezy rave troll who eats 8 pills a week and lives off 3am Taco Bell, then yeah you'll probably take as long as 3 months without MDMA before your serotonin has completely restored itself.

But if you're like me and only roll once every 8 weeks, lifts weights 5 days a week, and has a diet high in amino acids and anti-oxidants, I can guarantee you that my serotonin regenerates a lot faster than the "average" person and especially a lot faster than the MDMA abuser. That's exactly why so many different sources say so many different things, because nobody lives the same lifestyle and as a result, there is no magical waiting period that works for everyone.
Click to expand...
There haven't been clinical studies on the regeneration rate of serotonin but there have been numerous documented cases in regards to the abuse of MDMA and the damage of serotonin receptors. What I quoted from you before was quoted for a reason, because it was really the only thing wrong that you said. You also forgot to mention that even though you do eat a lot of amino acids, and you think that your serotonin regerates faster than the "average" person, only about 20% of that serotonin that your tryptophan enriched diet produces is goes to your central nervous system. so yeah. 20% dude. that means the extra serotonin you claim your body produces is marginal at best.
 
But there is more than a marginal difference between a healthy individual than an unhealthy MDMA abuser. Guaranteed the regenetation rate of serotonin is more than "marginally" quicker in healthy individuals who space their rolls than the kid who rolled every weekend for the past 6 weekends.

And I'd love to see your source that claims only 20% of neurotransmitter precursors actually become neurotransmitters. And even if it were true, I'd take 20% over the rave-troll diet any day, because a 20% conversion on a high-tryptophan diet over the course of a week or so is SUBSTANTIALLY (not marginally) faster than someone who does not eat tryptophan-enriched foods every day.
 
roganmaster said:
But there is more than a marginal difference between a healthy individual than an unhealthy MDMA abuser. Guaranteed the regenetation rate of serotonin is more than "marginally" quicker in healthy individuals who space their rolls than the kid who rolled every weekend for the past 6 weekends.

And I'd love to see your source that claims only 20% of neurotransmitter precursors actually become neurotransmitters. And even if it were true, I'd take 20% over the rave-troll diet any day, because a 20% conversion on a high-tryptophan diet over the course of a week or so is SUBSTANTIALLY (not marginally) faster than someone who does not eat tryptophan-enriched foods every day.
Click to expand...

You are wrong.

^ King MW. "Serotonin". The Medical Biochemistry Page. Indiana University School of Medicine. Retrieved 2009-12-01.


^ Berger M, Gray JA, Roth BL (2009). "The expanded biology of serotonin". Annu. Rev. Med. 60: 355–66. doi:10.1146/annurev.med.60.042307.110802. PMID 19630576.

fuck off troll
 
TearItDown said:
You are wrong.

^ King MW. "Serotonin". The Medical Biochemistry Page. Indiana University School of Medicine. Retrieved 2009-12-01.


^ Berger M, Gray JA, Roth BL (2009). "The expanded biology of serotonin". Annu. Rev. Med. 60: 355–66. doi:10.1146/annurev.med.60.042307.110802. PMID 19630576.

fuck off troll
Click to expand...

guys chill out, can we get back on topic please?
 
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