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  • EADD Moderators: Pissed_and_messed | Shinji Ikari

European MDMA vs. American

+1.

Set, setting, mates, tunes, quality, dose..

This debate is probably ruining pills for alot of ppl, lol.
 
first time I did E, I got it in the shows parking lots which were roving open air scenes back then. Anyway, I gave some hippie some money as I had read about it 2 years earlier. Even back then @ 16 I new the rule "I go were the money goes." The guy, like I said new the Chemist. UC Berkley has talented individuals, is a very long countrculture scene, and it is about 15 Km from Berkley, in Lafayette, the Godfather of MDMA- the man that re discovered it after it was shelved by Merck or whoever since 1914- was turned onto it by a grad student. He wrote PIHKAL and TIKAL while working in his backyard lab he discovered many coumpounds that became todays RCs.

Anyway, Back in 94' or 95' at an event called playschool- a big event highlighted by deelight, they had a booth that was selling 2-CB while it was still legal. I kick myself to this day for not getting any, but we dropped acid before going in and I fried HARD.

In 88' when I did the first hit of E- the hippie left with the money and left me with his friend. Miraculously, he came back like 45 minutes later I think with 1/4 gram off white molly- back then people were cool that way- were happy just to turn you on. It had that taste I came to know later. By the mid 90s, before Jerry's death, the narcoswine went deep undercover and went on tour for years to gain the families trust. Arrests were made-hippies having hippies in handcuffs on shakedown street and eksewere in the parking lot were drugs of all types, mostly psychedelics and buds, but others, and nitrous ballons were openly sold. That sowed paranoia and damaged the scene. Towards the end, alot of the hardcore people on tour and members of the family were doing heroin andd coke. Methamp and PCP were always in the scene albeit at lower levels.

It was subtle- I took some and started to come on just as the fireworks were starting, 20 minutes later for new years- felt the optimism and euphoria, my euphoria was increasing with the display- peaked and plateaued during finale.

In the 90s we were getting caps that were subtle. But my first rave, I don't know if it was the setting or dose but I started to come on and had to sit down then I dot up to the rave sounds- techno almost trancy of the early 90s and with the lasers, smoke, and sounds i started to soar and then plateaued were I was at peace with everyone and felt incredible euphoria and a sense that I had found something revolutionary- aat one with everyone, ect... within 4 months the scene was ruined. Dod first tab a few weeks later. then around 92 I got a drug that was sold as E - I took it and it didn't hit me for 2 hours and only gave me eye closed imagery. In 93-94, we were getting excellent powerful tabs. Sometimes you would puke before going off but had lots of pure social euphoria but never recaptured the magic of my first rave- was some great E by all means.

One time, though, we got some E that made us antisocial on the comeup- we were throwing a house party. When me and a few housemates left our room we were feeling antisocial. Also I felt a bone chilling cold to my bones- was it another analogue, contaminate, there were more adveturous chemists back then and I believe the high was getting going. I think I did my last hit New Years of 96 or 97'- atleast got decent E my last time but didn't last long.

Got E that I took in Maui in 94' with my girlfriend. We were Newly in love. I new the chemist and he was University trained. Allegedly he made some at the lab and some reactions in his house using isosaphrole he had apparently obtained at his lab and used Shulgin's receipe. TLC plates confirmed MDMA. It was brown speckled so probaly needed a recrystalization (wash/cleaning). Anyway, the drug made us feel close and connected- we took the road to Hanna but had to turn back. Drove to desert like Mckena Beach. That was during a drought and we sent a friend money to send us ballons- I had a mild kick on the trip. This was our last day and we had been checking for fedEX packages everyday. We came back to the hote after some beach intimacy. They were burning sugar fields back then at that time so the air smelt like burnt shugar-the dope we had been getting. We oppened the package and there were some sweet balloons of much improved quality dope. We spent the rest of the day in tranquility and peace (thought that we'd be gone when the package arived). It was perfect b/c we were comming down off our E. Latter as the dope improved we'd equate sweet (and they were probably using different cut), with bad dope. First strong vinegar was good, then recently nice bitter taste was a sign of quality sans strong vinegar.

So anyway, set and setting, number of times used, and burned out receptors all play roles in overall effect..
Piperazine udulturated E was veung sild un Europe. One of these therories was the supply of safrole was disrupteded by going after safrole containg trees in Cambodia and shutting down the opperations that were gatvesting them and distiling the yellowisk safrole oil ar distillation planys yhay were supplying labd in benlieux countries, especially dutch labs, which leos probaly struct a cordinanted strije on simutaneously. This caused the ban.

In the US we get out E from Canada. The south eastern USA has many species of trees that prodyce sassafrass oil that to m lnowleghe aren't rngangered. Their eseential oil is 80% safrole but braziilian derived safrole is the best. The plants produves an oil with 90% safrole, clean enough noy to require distillation, or so I'm told

Anyway, I hear rhat beans and Molly going around Southern and northern Cal are generally good. Moreover, steroisomers, like with meth probaly make a difference. Shulgin said the racenate "has the "sparkle." Met a pharmcist that was doing a study to explain why some brands of generics or name brabds are nore efficacious in certain patients eveb though you had the same chemical.









e said that something in the prod, possibly a molecular quirk. Maybe that principke is at work. MMT patients will twll you that the wafers are supperior to methadose.

I think lomg term use causes us to lose the "magic for everyone." or most.


is at work here or uction process, ect... might indune a milecular quirk that nakes one generic or brand name for patients better than another

How about MDA as opposed to MDMA. Uble fester swears its a supperior, euphoric, more empathagenic ftuh?
 
missing old pills said:
These threads always get passionate don't they
Click to expand...

Amen to that. Heh heh, it's a bloody forum for christs sake! Well personally I think the reason for MDMA not being as good anymore is because it's cut with smack, you see them brown speckels? I once got mushrooms in a pill once and another time one which was pure coke.
 
This one time I had MDMA !! WHOAR FUKING HELL MDMA!! anyway this one time I had MDMA! WHOARR anyway I think i lost my magic


shall i eat MOAR salad!!?!!?






will MOAR mayonaise effect my MAGICC???
 
I was actually impressed with that American thread, at least 2 people on there had a ticket on the clue-train, great mod in there taming the cattle and tempering the misinformation dissemination :)
 
Amen to that. Heh heh, it's a bloody forum for christs sake! Well personally I think the reason for MDMA not being as good anymore is because it's cut with smack, you see them brown speckels? I once got mushrooms in a pill once and another time one which was pure coke.
Click to expand...

I appologize for the typos on my previous thread but the soma started kicking in and It began to effect my typing (and vision).

But anyway, like I stated, I did my first hit of E in 88' (it was technically 87') when I consumed it but it didn't kick in until 88' ( new years.)

But anyway, the myth that MDXX is cut with heroin goes back to the late 80s at least as well as the urban myth that MDMA drains spinal fluid. Well spinal fluid is constantly beiing drained and replenished via the coroid plexus. If that got plugged up you would get hydrcephelus and need a shunt. If it drained that would be normal as long as the fluid shift didn't happen to fast (then you would get a herniated brainstem, fuck knows).

But as far as heroin being used as an adulterant. I don't think that it is the case for several reasons.
1.) Heoin is more valuable, per weight than MDXX, and even small flakes wouldn't be a cost effective method of cutting the drug.

2.) There is a well recognized heroin drought in europe, and though your heroin is brown like the brown powder or mostly black tar we get on the west coast- it wouldn't be wasted as a cut, since the demand is so huge, it would be cut with bash and sold on the black market, not likely used as bash.

3.) Though heroin is a potent compound compared to MDXX, its bioavailability (the amount of drug that enters your bloodstream is much less when used IV or smoked, so yet another reason why these guys wouldn't waste their time using it as a cut.

4.) Are they connected to the same people that sell heroin, if not, then they wouldn't be getting it at a bulk discount providing further disensentive to cut their dope with heroin.

When I had a friend that allegedly cooked it uo a long time ago, he used isosafrole obtained from the company he was employed at and synthesized part of it in his company's lab and finished some of the steps in his bath tub or whatever part of his premises, probably the purification steps, adapting Shulgin's receipe. He ran it using thin layer chromatography so he new he had MDMA, and that should have shown contaminates that would have run at different rates. It had brown specks. That was probably a contaminate ( either a reagent or an intermediate.) Porbably needed more washing with acetone or recrystalization. I do know it was decent E. When I took it with my now wife in Maui in 94' we felt good euphoria, but subtle. Non of the I want to be at one with everyone and the universe I experienced with previous great rolls.

By the way, I'm so old that rolling was years away from describing the experience. We used to call it X and doing it Xing. By 93 we were calling it E and being on it "on E".

Selling coke as E wouldn't make much sense either unless the person was snorting the powder or using it subligual or subucally. Again, cocaine, even pure has poor oral bioavailability.

As far as ephedrine, that is a likely cut as well as piperazine, of course, and one of the amphetamines, ketamine, and robitussin. Pill reports gives a better picture if you look in to that- it will tell you if you got an MDXX substance.

A question I would ask, because aside for a few times, I didn't know for certainty if it was MDMA or an analogue, for those who know- how does the high from MDMA compare with MDA? They talk about "cones of silences" and a hallucinogenic component to MDA. Uncle Fester, the author of Secrets of methamphetamine Manufacture which I'm not sure is legal in the UK, says that MDA gives a much more euphoric high than MDMA- calling MDMA its poorer cousin- but he is contreversial in his opinions.

But different sterioisomers have diffrenent effects. As I tried to state before, the racemate of MDMA had "a sparkle" that sterioisomers lacked.

Ephedrine and pseudoephedrine is used throughout the world to make methamphetamine via different synthetic routes. In the US they use one that requires red phosphorous and KI (potassium iodide) called the red, white, and blue method because of the color of the reagents- popular with bikers and mexican cartels. In the US midwest, they use another pseudo bassed method that requires anhydrous ammonium, a substance that is popular in agriculture, hence its popularity in the area. In Burma, they use some chlorinated intermediate.

MD-P2P I believe is a yellow oil and safrole, the most common precursore for MDMA is an oil as has been pointed out although I don't know what color. Speed popular in the Europe, with the exception of the Czech Republick and Slovakia, were methamphetamine (pervertin) has been popular since communist days, the prevailing amphetamine is amphetamine sulfate or base. For this P2P is the starting compound I believe that is a closely watched compound in many countries (especially the USA), hence the assendency of pseudo/ ephedrine as the precursor.

Whats my point- the pseudo routes lead to only dextro-methamphetamine. The P2P- to a receimic product were the sterioisomers, if desired, need to be resolved. Maybe something analogous might be happening- less safrole around so cooks are finding a new precuror that leads to one particular sterioisomer- but this is all theoretical.

But anyway, I used to smoke heroin on the comdown, before baseline- it would make me feel grounded and wrap me in a warm blanket of euphoria.
But when your talking of aquiring heroin habits, the cure is worse than the disease- valium would help with the anxious comedown too.

Bottom ine, though, the cutting of MDXX with heroin is an urban myth in my poorly informed opinion.
 
One thing that I forgot to mention was that i met a pharmacist (what you brits call "a chemist"), once, that was doing a research project. The topic of his disertation was differences in brands of therapeuitic drugs. So in some cases, for instance, brand name nifedipine, a calcium chanel doctor- adalat or procardia might be more effective in a patient and justify the higher cost. It shouldn't make a difference, right, its the same substance nifedipine. However, some patients would respond better to the brand name and he was exploring why. He and whoever he was collaborating with had theories, like a different synthetic process or a slight "molecular quirk" or something else that changed the efficacy of the therapeutic drug. Molecules are made of atoms, that are made out of subatomic particles, ect...so there are still unknowns.

When I was on methadone maintenance, they would normally dispense a pink juice (methadose)- green in the UK which was methadone HCl I believe disolved in some solution. I always heard old school people at the clinic say that when they would go to the hospital the methadone wafers were more effective and actually make them nod at the same dose. I always thought it was the power of suggestion. But once I courtesy dosed at another clinic in the LA area that used wafers disolved in orange juice and found myself nodding on the way home- so maybe their is some truth to that theory about different synthetic methods, ect...

But, and Shulgin has illustrated often, set and setting plays a HUGE factor in the overall experience. Other research confirms this.
 
Nice posts, I pretty much whole heartedly agree. I think MDMA is MDMA, if there was to be a difference I believe its in the ratio of isomers. So far i've found no evidence to prove different routes/precursors produce different isomer ratios, however if credible evidence turned up I would not be surprised.At the moment i'm in the setting/potency camp with regards to different effects.
 
mattnotrik said:
This one time I had MDMA !! WHOAR FUKING HELL MDMA!! anyway this one time I had MDMA! WHOARR anyway I think i lost my magic


shall i eat MOAR salad!!?!!?






will MOAR mayonaise effect my MAGICC???
Click to expand...

i think the salad creams worse for the magic ;)

matt u tryed the qdance outpressed
they are the best pills iv taken ever very rushy and very tingly (specialy the spine)
 
Brownz said:
Amen to that. Heh heh, it's a bloody forum for christs sake! Well personally I think the reason for MDMA not being as good anymore is because it's cut with smack, you see them brown speckels? I once got mushrooms in a pill once and another time one which was pure coke.
Click to expand...

mushrooms in a pill? that'd be a big-ass pill. a pill with 3 grams of dried cubensis plus another 3 grams of binders. sorry man that's not feasible. brown speckles in pills are smack? no that's oxidized amines or whatever is in there, whether it is mdma/meth/etc. it's either degraded/oxidized over time or the product was impure and the brown was a colored impurity because the product wasn't purified properly. just cuz it's brown doesn't make it heroin, in fact pure heroin is white. the whole "smacky rolls" crap is a myth anyway, not to say pills with heroin in them don't exist because any type of pill can exist so long as someone presses it. all i'm saying is that "smacky rolls" were used as a way to describe pure mdma versus the typical retail pill which contains caffeine or *amphetamine to make the pill more energetic. pure mdma is a stimulant but it lays you on your ass and makes you nod, hence the term "smacky" which is misleading.

ponch i'd have to agree with you, all the ways to mdma i'm aware of end in racemic mdma. the talk of different stereoisomers in pills, i theorize as being BS. you'd have racemic mdma after the reduction and would have to spend more time and more money on solvents to separate the isomers. not only that, but you'd lose approximately 50% of your product, for the isomer that you discard. nobody is going to do that. the only ones who are going to do that are going to do it for novelty for themselves and close friends or for academic purposes or curiosity, certainly not for profit! so yes i agree, mdma is mdma. as far as capules and pills go: varying milligram doses, various active substances, and varying purity is what makes the difference. yep - mdma is mdma.

jspun - mdp-2-p is a fluorescent yellow oil. safrole is crystal clear like water but refracts light like an oil when in its pure state. sassafras oil is brown to yellow - depending, fractionally distilled you can get clear safrole. yes mdp-2-p is watched, so is safrole, and so is sassafras oil. i believe the mdma megalabs in europe were getting mdp-2-p from china and just doing reductions all day long to get mdma. i think around the time china had the olympics they cracked down on exportation of certain chems, mdp-2-p being one of them. since the sources for mdp-2-p dried up but demand stayed up, the bunk pills, mainly a ton of piperazines flooded the market. some labs were getting safrole from cambodia or brazil, both countries have really cracked down on exportation of those oils as well. but to my knowledge from what i've read it seems that most of the megalabs in europe were using mdp-2-p from china. as far as your theory on stereoisomers, sorry no, all the reactions i'm aware of for mdma give a racemic mixture. there are more precursors than just safrole and you can synthesize safrole actually, but everything i'm aware of is racemic, this statement holds true for mda also. as far as your question about mda, it's night and day different from mdma. it works on 5ht2a receptors like lsd/mescaline/psilocin/etc instead of 5ht3 like mdma, also mda releases less serotonin in general and mda releases a LOT more dopamine than mdma. so what this means is, take the empathic mindstate of mdma and replace it with a psychedelic headspace. the mda headspace, to me, is a lot like mescaline except mda is more hypnotic. so instead of pondering the meaning of life, you're more "stoned" feeling, much less thinking is involved. mda lacks the mental clarity of mdma, in fact high dose mda fucks me up so much i couldn't even tell you my own name. i'd just be like "huh?" LOL. mda is considerably more stimulating, it's less forgiving and less relaxing. mda can be very euphoric, arguably can be even more euphoric than mdma, but that is very dose sensitive and even more sensitive to set/setting, because mda can have a body load too IMHO. mda is hallucinogenic also, it can be incredibly visual. mda is all around rougher on your body and more neurotoxic than mdma. mda and mdma are quite a bit different from one another, both very unique. mdma is a roll, very predictable. mda is rolly but it's a trip, no question about that, unpredictable just like the other psychedelics. mda is one hell of a ride.
 
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