Does mephedrone trigger Stevens-Johnson syndrome?

[SimonMagus]

There seems to be a high degree of variance in the reporting of negative effects associated with mephedrone. I'm wondering if some users are particularly sensitive, and that this drug may be triggering SJS in some people with the vasoconstriction being the root cause of the cell death leading to the separation of the skin. In particular, the hospitalization where the man had ulcerations in his mouth and lips sounds exactly like SJS. There could be some people that are extremely sensitive, if that's the case.

please move to appropriate forum.

 

[Sega420]

separation of the skin?
:O

 

[Solipsis]

Not saying this is not possible, but what in particular makes you think this is "exactly like" SJS?

Are there not a bunch of other reasons for ulcerations? Though I have to admit that since it has been seen with cocaine, mephedrone is not such a big leap.

 

[SimonMagus]

Wikipedia: Stevens–Johnson syndrome (SJS) and toxic epidermal necrolysis (TEN)[1] are two forms of a life-threatening condition affecting the skin in which cell death causes the epidermis to separate from the dermis. The syndrome is thought to be a hypersensitivity complex affecting the skin and the mucous membranes. Although the majority of cases are idiopathic, the main class of known causes is medications, followed by infections and (rarely) cancers.


It really may not be saying much to call it SJS. I think that would be saying it's more of an allergic reaction that may be happening to people rather than overdoses (or a combination of both, very bad).

 

[Solipsis]

http://www.setox.org/Archivos/Noticias/Mephedrone.pdf

This document seems to agree with your suspicion, an immunological response indeed.

I never take much (500 mg max over 10 hours) but always seem to get a very sore throat and a shit load of really annoying mouth ulcers. Anyone have the same and tips as to how to avoid this???

source: http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?t=439578&page=9

Oh it may also be worth noting that on the 1st weekend bender of_MMC i did develop a nasty tongue ulcer.

source: http://www.synchronium.net/2009/12/03/mephedrone-the-facts/

SJS usually begins with fever, sore throat, and fatigue, which is misdiagnosed and usually treated with antibiotics. Ulcers and other lesions begin to appear in the mucous membranes, almost always in the mouth and lips but also in the genital and anal regions. Those in the mouth are usually extremely painful and reduce the patient's ability to eat or drink. Conjunctivitis of the eyes occurs in about 30% of children who develop SJS. A rash of round lesions about an inch across arises on the face, trunk, arms and legs, and soles of the feet, but usually not the scalp.[3]

source: wikipedia

But also:

The more you use, the more the side effects become apparent and the initial pleasant effects diminish. Also, significant evidence is coming forward suggesting circulation issues are not just vasoconstriction, but something more serious – autoimmune vasculitis, where the immune system attacks your own body.

So I think the immune system is definitely involved but am not sure whatsoever which one of these causes it has:

- over exhaustion weakens the immune system allowing for several logical consequences
- autoimmune vasculitis
- SJS

or just something else entirely.

 

[SimonMagus]

Thanks for the links.

Surprised the immunological aspect of this isn't being more widely disseminated. Afraid this stuff is going become more and more of a problem, as it gains popularity, and as chronic users turn their immune systems against themselves. I would suggest people feeling toxic effects, especially related to the skin, to reevaluate the usefulness of the compound. Find something else. Those not feeling such toxic effects may, of course, still be at risk, and should do likewise. Though, I think the real threat is that this isn't happening to people across the board, at least not to the same degree.

 

[Vader]

I think the reason people are getting ulcers is because they're chewing their faces off. Bruxism seems like the most likely cause to me.

 

[Solipsis]

I really think you're right there but that has to be a basic harm reduction law: people seeking harm reduction tend to minimize it themselves to begin with. People who just do whatever the hell they want without researching will also not look on BL or other places to see what is going on until it may be too late.
Very similarly the evaluation for taking a drug like this is probably often not so lucid at all, it causes a rush and is said to be fiending, using a term used by people in the UK who were among the first to start trying this on a massive scale. There has to be a real downside for people to stop using it, that is the way a balance works I guess.

It's tragic but I cannot say I never did anything that went against common advice once it was lodged inside my head.

The most infectious thing there is is not a virus but an idea... I think that is Daniel Dennett territory or something

I think the reason people are getting ulcers is because they're chewing their faces off. Bruxism seems like the most likely cause to me.

Well that is what happens with me on MDMA but I tend to get a chewed mouth from that rather than ulcers. The timeline is different though, I never went on an MDMA binge for as long as some people binge on mephedrone...

Also I think the immune system factor should not be dismissed. At the very least it has to be explained in terms of general exhaustion.

 

[SimonMagus]

Oh I understand. I think the toxicity should be pretty clear to the user without anyone pointing out some specific mechanism for it. Being a 'fiendy' drug, those feeling negative consequences will probably lodge themselves in a strong state of denial. I can't see myself turning colors on something, then doing it again and again, but that seems fairly common among meph users, so I'd say there is some psychological dependence factor at least.

The information you posted is about as good as can reasonably be done as far as harm reduction, I think. It would be nice if we could get some raw numbers on the occurrence rate of acute negative reactions. I'm guessing only the most severe of the severe are ending up in the hospitals to be counted.

 

[Solipsis]

Your guess is as good as mine.

 

[theotherside]

I think the reason people are getting ulcers is because they're chewing their faces off. Bruxism seems like the most likely cause to me.

QFT.......I have sores in my mouth I'm nursing from a drone binge...as far as the outside the mouth that I'm not sure.

 

[Sega420]

holy fuck.
im VERY glad i never hop on a new substance til its seen to be reasonably safe.
4mmc has been doomed in this aspect since the setout.

however i believe it also has to do with the stupid dosages many users consume.
ie not measuring with scales, just eyeballing and racking lots of lines.


holy fuck though!
times like these that im glad i only use cannabis and psychedelics (lsd, mdma, mushrooms).
drugs with established safety profiles, drugs with decades of research on them and their effects.
drugs that are known to be pretty harmless. (physically. mental health is a different issue)

personally, IMO, i can only see people getting right into mephedrone and ruining their lives with it
if theyve never had good drugs in their lives.
i mean shit, the huge number of TOTAL MORONS who were using meph in the huge boom in the UK last year,
(i mean the type who think "its propah good innit man" and are generally fannies)
if they think meph is the be all end all of drugs id hate to see what lsd would do to them

(to each their own of course, but...)
take some real drugs!
i'll be over in the corner trippin balls and enjoying my skin and healthy immune system.

 

[BoomBoxer]

Im sure im not the only person that found Mephedrone to be my favourite drug i have used. I have used most drugs in the past from speed to coke to crack to lsd to e's and had a heroin problem but i really enjoyed the feeling i got of 4MMC better than any of these. Then again i did not have any of the more extreme side effects only pins and needles and that passed with time.

It's hard to say for sure if i would have put myself in denial if i had started turning blue but i found Meph to also be the most addictive drug i had ever tried and took a lot of self control to have breaks from it. I never binged on it either although i did at one point use it as a stim to help with the insane hours i was working.

I found this very interesting quote from prof nutt in another thread

"Mephedrone was banned before we had any proven deaths from it. Most of those reported turned out to be caused by something else. But during the year when it was a popular drug, deaths from cocaine fell by half, saving around 40 lives."

Heres the thread http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?p=9310241#post9310241

I have had no Mephedrone since i have been unable to get it online, i would not really want to be getting cut with god know what Meph from dealers after having the pure Meph.

I think if i knew of a site that still mailed it though i would take the risk, i know i would not do that with any other illegal drug.

 

[MrFaust]

I think the reason people are getting ulcers is because they're chewing their faces off. Bruxism seems like the most likely cause to me.

thats exactly what I thought me and a friend were doing some last week and I generally control my jaw and dont chew as much, hes usually snapping away like a dog or something and the next day he had some nasy looking shit on the side of his tongue. I told him it was from all that chewing without even thinking about it.

 

[7zark7]

So I think the immune system is definitely involved but am not sure whatsoever which one of these causes it has:

- over exhaustion weakens the immune system allowing for several logical consequences
- autoimmune vasculitis
- SJS

or just something else entirely.

Hmm… an auto-immune / allergenic response of some kind would be a reason why some people get no blue knees, ulcers, rashes, etc. at all, and some get these side-effects after very small doses.

If the immune system was weakened then surely auto-immune conditions would be less likely, as auto-immune conditions are usually caused by an over-active immune system. So that rules out the first suggestion.

The symptoms for SJS are just too different in my opinion, so that's no.3 out…

Autoimmune vasculitis is interesting though… from what I have (just) read about it, it seems to be the trigger the immune system to attack the body in the form of an increased white blood-cell count.

On a personal level, I have had many blood tests over the past couple years and even when doing meph, my red blood cell count and my white blood cell count haven't noticeably altered at all. Interesting thing is though, is that I already had an auto-immune disease before using meph - yet I have never got any of the visible, negative side effecs that are of concern to many people. Furthermore, I would have expected my condition to worsen after meph use but, again, usage had no effect.


This is definitely something I need to look into more…

Hmm… so corticosteriods are prescribed as treatment to vasculitis… and guess which medication I was taking for the pre-existing auto-immune condition while using mpeh… Hmm…