lasthurrah19
Bluelighter
I just did this, so pissed
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OD Moderators: Keif’ Richards | negrogesic
Bupe Suboxone/Buprenorphine FAQ & Megathread v3; 2010 - 2022
- Thread starter Thekid331
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I just did this, so pissed
The healing effect of buprenorphine is well known. The partial agonism provokes your brain to start producing its own dopamine. But in order to accomplish this, you must be at a steady dose for a length of time. The highs and lows of opiate and abuse and irregular bupe dosing only cause your brain to lessen the amount of dopamine it produces naturally. By limiting these unnatural dopamine stimuli, your brain slowly begins to produce closer to normal levels.
Buprenorphine does however have a different mechanism of action compared to other opiates. It has a notable anti-depressant effect, which in all likelihood, is responsible for PAWS. However, with a very slow taper schedule, and a solid plan that includes replacements activities that induce pleasure, one has a better chance at recovery.
If you are dumping something (opiates) that bring you great pleasure and replacing it with nothing, you will be faced with a great emptiness and depression. Your brain needs to learn to produce dopamine once again. You can shock it into doing so much quicker by going through cold-turkey withdrawal, by presenting a ultra-low dopamine environment. Activities like sex, exercise, and anything fun and stimulating, help by producing dopamine, which opiates did in the past. Same goes for coming off bupe. It has wider range of effect, means it's equally as important to find dopamine stimulating activities to recover successfully.
Buprenorphine does however have a different mechanism of action compared to other opiates. It has a notable anti-depressant effect, which in all likelihood, is responsible for PAWS. However, with a very slow taper schedule, and a solid plan that includes replacements activities that induce pleasure, one has a better chance at recovery.
If you are dumping something (opiates) that bring you great pleasure and replacing it with nothing, you will be faced with a great emptiness and depression. Your brain needs to learn to produce dopamine once again. You can shock it into doing so much quicker by going through cold-turkey withdrawal, by presenting a ultra-low dopamine environment. Activities like sex, exercise, and anything fun and stimulating, help by producing dopamine, which opiates did in the past. Same goes for coming off bupe. It has wider range of effect, means it's equally as important to find dopamine stimulating activities to recover successfully.
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Doctors take a 5hr course that meets two times I believe, in order to be certified to prescribe suboxone. The advice that I gave is the general concencus on bluelight. I went to the doctor and was prescribed 32mgs of suboxone for a weekend vicodin habbit, many of them really don't know how potent it is.
I think that in the case of suboxone, many patients know more than the doctors. Partially because the drug is fairly new and the doctors barely had to do anything to be certified, and the other part is because pretty much all of the feedback that they get is from their drug addict patients, some of whom lie about the doses needed so that they have extra to sell.
Most people put more work into earning the money that they pay the suboxone doctor for 1 visit than the Dr. did to get licenced to prescribe it.
need some help
Greenlighter
Hey, thanks funkee. i was beginning to wonder if my Suboxone choice was akin to having someone ask if i would like my right or my left eye gouged out, (taking into account the left eye would be managed medically). People weren't exactly singing the praises. After your posts i'm feeling stronger in my decision, and i know what i was doing before wasn't producing results. Its been 2 months or so, i'm feeling pretty good about that. My Sub doctor put me on Busporine (sp) to help with panic and to try and get xanax out of the picture. i have some pretty intense panic attacks that lead to passing out etc... It's only one milligram a day (xanax) and i'm not ready to kick it out of bed just yet, but the busporine is supposed to help increase dopamine levels and lessen the flight or fight of panic. Hopefully it helps a bit with the blahs. i'm thinking of starting to jog, it's helped in the past as well. Anyway. @Catcalls, i hope its just a bit of a flu bug and not the failing of bupe... Feel better.
lasthurrah19
Bluelighter
This is my experience. I've quick tapered from an oxy addiction twice, and these methods worked.
1. I went to a doctor that charge about as much as the quote you got for the first doctor, about $1k. I went in, they piss tested me and took my blood and blood pressure. He got a brief history of my psychiatric history (I have a couple of things going on there), and what I was taking and how long, etc. This took about 45 minutes, he was thorough. They gave me a 2mg Subutex to make sure I wouldn't have precipitated withdrawal too bad if I was lying about my last dose (it was about 36 hours after), and then he gave me 16mg of Subutex, I was monitored this whole time, but he had a couch area ands stuff, wasn't too bad. Also my mom was with me, Then he gave me another 16mg. Now I know this sounds weird, but with this dose I didn't have to take another for 2 1/2 days, and I was just a bit sick waiting like the three hours I waited for him to call in the Suboxone (he gave me Subutex in his office, but now it was Suboxone at home), not really bad at all. When I needed more, he called in 2 pills, and it lasted about 2 days, then he called in 1 pill. This process took about 7 days I think, and I saw him on day 4 and day 8. He prescribed me clondine and at this point and an anti-nausea pill, can't remember. I was a tiny bit sick, just insomnia and runny nose, very minor. Then, NO WITHDRAWAL at all at about day 10. It was almost painless, I'd say the worst I got was feeling 90% normal as opposed to 100% normal, on oxy it'd be like 0 - 25% for at least 5 days. I was also high as fuck the whole time on Suboxone, it was actually probably one of the times I was the highest in my life on that 34mg dose, so the insomnia and minor stomach craps were not a big deal at all, I knew the pain was there, but I didn't really feel it.
2. I went to another psychiatrist that my normal psychiatrist recommended. I didn't have insurance at this point, so the fee was 100 dollars per visit (two visits). No blood pressure or piss test or anything. He got a very brief history, and then prescribed me I think 8 8mg pills. He instructed me to take 16mg the first two days, and another half if I needed at night (which I didn't, also clonidine I didn't need). Then it was 8mg for two days, 4 for two days, 2mg one day, 1mg three days, then off. This was not as painless as the first detox, but still it was VERY minor compared to cold turkey. I wasn't high like the first time (probably due to my tolerance being much higher. I didn't really like this doctor, his personality rubbed my the wrong way. I went to him about a year later for maintenance, he was the cheapest doctor by far and after two or three months he started writing me scripts with two refills (plus one script lasted me for way longer cause I was taking less than prescribed after a few months when I realized I didn't need nearly as much as I was taking. He let me detox at any pace I wanted, I was on it about 9 months or so. To get off it, I started spacing my doses so I only took it about every 2 1/2 days (near the end), started with 24 hours then it went to 30, then 36, etc). I jumped off at 2mg when it was getting to 2 1/2 days, and had no withdrawal at all, zero, zip. So he was a nice and fair guy for sure, just rubbed me the wrong way like I said.
Sorry for the long post, but I want to illustrate that it can be close to painless. You could take the smallest amount you can feel decent on, but to me I'd rather not worry and also not suffer for while trying to take such small amounts, even though much smaller amounts than I took would also hold you. Also being high was cool. BTW, I paid about $7.50 a pill when I didn't have insurance. This was at CVS, they were the cheapest out of CVS, Walgreens, Target and Walmart.
Good luck whatever you decide to do.
1. I went to a doctor that charge about as much as the quote you got for the first doctor, about $1k. I went in, they piss tested me and took my blood and blood pressure. He got a brief history of my psychiatric history (I have a couple of things going on there), and what I was taking and how long, etc. This took about 45 minutes, he was thorough. They gave me a 2mg Subutex to make sure I wouldn't have precipitated withdrawal too bad if I was lying about my last dose (it was about 36 hours after), and then he gave me 16mg of Subutex, I was monitored this whole time, but he had a couch area ands stuff, wasn't too bad. Also my mom was with me, Then he gave me another 16mg. Now I know this sounds weird, but with this dose I didn't have to take another for 2 1/2 days, and I was just a bit sick waiting like the three hours I waited for him to call in the Suboxone (he gave me Subutex in his office, but now it was Suboxone at home), not really bad at all. When I needed more, he called in 2 pills, and it lasted about 2 days, then he called in 1 pill. This process took about 7 days I think, and I saw him on day 4 and day 8. He prescribed me clondine and at this point and an anti-nausea pill, can't remember. I was a tiny bit sick, just insomnia and runny nose, very minor. Then, NO WITHDRAWAL at all at about day 10. It was almost painless, I'd say the worst I got was feeling 90% normal as opposed to 100% normal, on oxy it'd be like 0 - 25% for at least 5 days. I was also high as fuck the whole time on Suboxone, it was actually probably one of the times I was the highest in my life on that 34mg dose, so the insomnia and minor stomach craps were not a big deal at all, I knew the pain was there, but I didn't really feel it.
2. I went to another psychiatrist that my normal psychiatrist recommended. I didn't have insurance at this point, so the fee was 100 dollars per visit (two visits). No blood pressure or piss test or anything. He got a very brief history, and then prescribed me I think 8 8mg pills. He instructed me to take 16mg the first two days, and another half if I needed at night (which I didn't, also clonidine I didn't need). Then it was 8mg for two days, 4 for two days, 2mg one day, 1mg three days, then off. This was not as painless as the first detox, but still it was VERY minor compared to cold turkey. I wasn't high like the first time (probably due to my tolerance being much higher. I didn't really like this doctor, his personality rubbed my the wrong way. I went to him about a year later for maintenance, he was the cheapest doctor by far and after two or three months he started writing me scripts with two refills (plus one script lasted me for way longer cause I was taking less than prescribed after a few months when I realized I didn't need nearly as much as I was taking. He let me detox at any pace I wanted, I was on it about 9 months or so. To get off it, I started spacing my doses so I only took it about every 2 1/2 days (near the end), started with 24 hours then it went to 30, then 36, etc). I jumped off at 2mg when it was getting to 2 1/2 days, and had no withdrawal at all, zero, zip. So he was a nice and fair guy for sure, just rubbed me the wrong way like I said.
Sorry for the long post, but I want to illustrate that it can be close to painless. You could take the smallest amount you can feel decent on, but to me I'd rather not worry and also not suffer for while trying to take such small amounts, even though much smaller amounts than I took would also hold you. Also being high was cool. BTW, I paid about $7.50 a pill when I didn't have insurance. This was at CVS, they were the cheapest out of CVS, Walgreens, Target and Walmart.
Good luck whatever you decide to do.
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axe battler
Bluelight Crew
I have recently been through the horrid prolonged withdrawals that come with bupe and over the hols have been taking kratom, codeine and dihydrocodeine(~400mg/day) for about one week.
Today I have taken 120mg codeine, 30mg dhc and about 2g's of the kratom 15X extract.
I have one 8mg subutex pill that I would like to take tomorrow as a last little hurrah (I'll probably take only 1.5mg of it).
What time can I take the bupe if I took the above at around 3pm today without getting precipitated withdrawals?
Thankyou
Today I have taken 120mg codeine, 30mg dhc and about 2g's of the kratom 15X extract.
I have one 8mg subutex pill that I would like to take tomorrow as a last little hurrah (I'll probably take only 1.5mg of it).
What time can I take the bupe if I took the above at around 3pm today without getting precipitated withdrawals?
Thankyou
SubDude
Bluelighter
Perhaps I missed something but I assume your study for relapse rates are for people who remain on subs maintenance and don't return to H, Oxys...etc? If so... I'd like to see something similar on those who come off subs and their relapse rates. Especially for those who quit after a year or more on subs. I suspect the "relapse" rates back to subs... or other opiates [after tapering off] are significantly high??
My premise is the longer you stay on subs... the less likely you will have an opiate free life... which is OK for older guys like myself but I sure hate to see young guys on ORT for the long term. I've been off and on [mostly on] MMT and SMT for over 30 yrs and it's taken it's toll.
I would tend to agree with the other person as far as the brain receptors [not] healing while on subs... but I have no proof.
funkee said:
Once again I'm skeptical but hopeful. Please provide source.
Excellent advice!
muvolution
Bluelight Crew
What is the deal with Tramadol and Suboxone?
Is there a synergy, or do you simply feel the ssri/snri effects in addition to the bupe, without having the M1 tramadol metabolite hitting your mu receptors? is there some magical way that the metabolite sneaks past the bupe blockade?
As to the above poster, when I went a month plus even on a consistent dose of suboxone (~1mg) I found a significant down-regulation of my receptors. Yes, I was slightly depressed at first, but it quickly changed into an anti-depressant, mood lifter, etc...
Is there a synergy, or do you simply feel the ssri/snri effects in addition to the bupe, without having the M1 tramadol metabolite hitting your mu receptors? is there some magical way that the metabolite sneaks past the bupe blockade?
As to the above poster, when I went a month plus even on a consistent dose of suboxone (~1mg) I found a significant down-regulation of my receptors. Yes, I was slightly depressed at first, but it quickly changed into an anti-depressant, mood lifter, etc...
SubDude
Bluelighter
^ I'm referring to the end result healing effect which would be noticed AFTER getting off subs. While on subs, the receptors get Norbupe which would keep the brain dependent on opiates to prevent, depression, wd's, fatigue...etc.
Obviously bupe maintenance is better than being on street dope but I'm not sure the brain heals itself while on bupe. Again... I tend to think this only happens after one gets off all opiates and stays off for awhile. I think the brain must heal itself naturally rather than by using more opiates... even if it's a partial agonist. I could be wrong and would like/hope to see evidence to the contrary.
Obviously bupe maintenance is better than being on street dope but I'm not sure the brain heals itself while on bupe. Again... I tend to think this only happens after one gets off all opiates and stays off for awhile. I think the brain must heal itself naturally rather than by using more opiates... even if it's a partial agonist. I could be wrong and would like/hope to see evidence to the contrary.
verso
Bluelighter
So, I think that I have come to some conclusions and made my decision. First, I definitely do not think that I am dependent upon painkillers, yet. I have not yet experienced withdrawal symptoms, and the cravings that I experience do not come and go, they never really begin. For a split second after my binging is over I might think, "Hey! I should get some more pills!" But then that thought leaves as quickly as it comes.
However, I think that this psychiatrist I am about to see will want to put me on suboxone; In fact, I am fairly certain that my therapist has already e-mailed her, suggesting that I be put on suboxone. This might sound really stupid, but I think that I will take the suboxone script and hoard them for a time when, God forbid, I or someone else I know needs them. But, we'll see, maybe the psychiatrist will disagree with my therapist and not try pushing suboxone on me.
However, I think that this psychiatrist I am about to see will want to put me on suboxone; In fact, I am fairly certain that my therapist has already e-mailed her, suggesting that I be put on suboxone. This might sound really stupid, but I think that I will take the suboxone script and hoard them for a time when, God forbid, I or someone else I know needs them. But, we'll see, maybe the psychiatrist will disagree with my therapist and not try pushing suboxone on me.
Captain.Heroin
Bluelight Crew
How is everyone?
I am sorry that I haven't been posting a lot in this thread recently. In the last days of 2010 I broke my arm in two places. I am in a lot of pain.
Over the course of three hours in the ER (just to take Xrays), I was never given painkillers. The doctor was only in my room for one minute flat. He seemed like he shot a whole bunch of meth.
It was easily the most pain I have ever in. I cannot move my finngers more than a centimeter on my hand.
I have increased my buprenorphine dosage to 50 mcg to 150 mcg, depending on how much pain I am in. I prefer 50 mcg shots to be honest, but I overall prefer not to be in pain.
I am sorry that I haven't been posting a lot in this thread recently. In the last days of 2010 I broke my arm in two places. I am in a lot of pain.
Over the course of three hours in the ER (just to take Xrays), I was never given painkillers. The doctor was only in my room for one minute flat. He seemed like he shot a whole bunch of meth.
It was easily the most pain I have ever in. I cannot move my finngers more than a centimeter on my hand.
I have increased my buprenorphine dosage to 50 mcg to 150 mcg, depending on how much pain I am in. I prefer 50 mcg shots to be honest, but I overall prefer not to be in pain.
Captain.Heroin
Bluelight Crew
Beerman
Bluelighter
WOW 50mcg shots... it is 0.05mg right? I read that with bupe "less is more" but, SO less?
I don't use to shot my bupe anymore, i'm trying to get off the scars produced by the needles over my veins so... Tomorrow I'll try to snort only 0.1mg (difficult to scale XD) and see what happens (Now I'm taking about 1mg twice a day insuflated)
I'm sorry reading you are in a lot of pain Captain, and beeing already on "pain-killers" for sure difficults the situation... I hope you get better soon
And.. have you tried doses under 50mcg? Results?
It's amazing how strong buprenorphine is..
Happy 2011 to all BLers!
I don't use to shot my bupe anymore, i'm trying to get off the scars produced by the needles over my veins so... Tomorrow I'll try to snort only 0.1mg (difficult to scale XD) and see what happens
(Now I'm taking about 1mg twice a day insuflated)I'm sorry reading you are in a lot of pain Captain, and beeing already on "pain-killers" for sure difficults the situation... I hope you get better soon
And.. have you tried doses under 50mcg? Results?
It's amazing how strong buprenorphine is..
Happy 2011 to all BLers!
rolls_
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Dec 2, 2009
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- 475
Still on 0.2mg every day or so and I wake up with chills and get the shits then I get constipated during the day.
Very odd sensation, anxiety seems to have gone just very minor first thing in the morning. Think I'll stick at it for a few more weeks getting down to 0.1-0.2 every few days before jumping off.
I don't feel it apart from stopping the mild wd so I don't see any issue prolonging it slightly.
Very odd sensation, anxiety seems to have gone just very minor first thing in the morning. Think I'll stick at it for a few more weeks getting down to 0.1-0.2 every few days before jumping off.
I don't feel it apart from stopping the mild wd so I don't see any issue prolonging it slightly.
Relapsing back to subs sounds very plausible. I'll be at my docs in a little over a week, I'll pull out that book and jot down the study.
Sorry to hear that, CH. I hope you are better soon!
Was it your choice not get any painkillers at the hospital or were you told "NO!"
Did you take Ibuprofen or anything at all?
?
Was it your choice not get any painkillers at the hospital or were you told "NO!"
Did you take Ibuprofen or anything at all?
?
muvolution
Bluelight Crew
CH,
that's a real bummer, man. I would try to get in at a PM clinic specializing in ex-addicts. They will put you on a full-agonist for the time when you are in pain and you can switch back to bupe when you are done. If you come to a doctor with this attitude, he should understand that you WANT to be off opiates, but because of your situation, you temporarily need opiates.
I hope it turns out well.
that's a real bummer, man. I would try to get in at a PM clinic specializing in ex-addicts. They will put you on a full-agonist for the time when you are in pain and you can switch back to bupe when you are done. If you come to a doctor with this attitude, he should understand that you WANT to be off opiates, but because of your situation, you temporarily need opiates.
I hope it turns out well.
subutxfame
Greenlighter
- Joined
- Jul 1, 2010
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- 5
ok so i plugeed a subby 8mg up my cooch. i had sex with my hub and the next day he seemed happy as hell. do u think he got sum of my bupe?? i sure dont want him flunkin any drug test at work!! hes a sherrif! lol!!!
euphoriachaser
Greenlighter
- Joined
- Jan 2, 2011
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Thanks for taking the time to explain it further. It sounds like it should work that way, but it hasn't in my long experience with it. It was only recently that acquiring subs has been an issue, so my dosing was very consistent for years prior. It is one of those things that is hard to generalize because I have read a whole mess of conflicting experiences and reports regarding bupe. I hope that others have an easier time with bupe than I have, whether they continue therapy or decide to abstain.
euphoriachaser
Greenlighter
- Joined
- Jan 2, 2011
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- 5
intravaginal bupe you say?
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