Opioids help me kick a 160 mg methadone habit with the drugs I have

[traybuck]

Ok guys so it's christmas eve and tomarrow morning is my last dose of methadone so I'm gonna try and get as far as I can before I take the suboxim. Can someone with experience can tell me what's the shortest time I have to wait to take the sub?? And I mean no precip wd's plzz.. Do you think 48-72 hours is plenty long or should I wait longer???? And I will keep everyone posted about how I'm doing... Problt be monday or tuesday befoee it gets bad... Also I just found some methocarbamol 500mg tabs will these be of any use??

 

[adder]

I won't generalize here as there's no rule for all people. Have you ever experienced methadone withdrawal? It starts off much slower than anything like heroin/morphine/oxycodone etc. If you've never had to go through even a few days of methadone withdrawal, it may be a shock for you compared to withdrawal after morphine-like opioids.

160mg methadone is pretty much, I don't believe you had to dose it every 24hrs, it must have worked longer. If 160mg could make you feel alright for 4 days, I'm guessing right now you won't feel anything real after 48-72 hrs. Maybe some weak muscle cramps, maybe you'll start to sweat but it's going to be slooow like hell. Withdrawal after morphine/heroin is piece of a cake compared to this for me.

From my experience methadone withdrawal gets terrible on day 4, more or less. But still it's not like you want to kick your wall/radiator/whatever you've got near your bed (you might not even experience diarrhea, just pain in stomach). On day 4 it's hard enough to make you really depressed but it's still in the starting phase so you get even more nervous. I myself could stand it that long before I called my friend X on day 4 and asked if X can get some 'done for me from some junkie from the program. Voila! I had it on day 5 and I was relieved. Mind you I've never taken such a high dose of methadone and I've never even thought about injecting this thick syrup... Morphine, sure, even higher doses but with morphine/heroin I would stand W/D for no more than 12 hours since the last dose so it's always easier to know when to take buprenorphine (when I kicked my last needle morphine/levorphanol habit, I took buprenorphine one day after levorphanol shot (~24hrs, 1 good shot of levorphanol in the morning then buprenorphine under my tongue next morning). Levorphanol is long-lasting but still it's comparable neither to morphine/heroin nor methadone (if morphine used to give good nod-out for 3-4 hrs, levorphanol did it for 10hrs certainly).

Trust me you will know when it's unbearable. And with 160mg addiction on your back, you will know for sure but it might take longer for body to get most of it from the system as it cumulates in fat tissue and not only, so long half-life is not the only thing that makes methadone work alright at programs. There'll be a period of time when you won't get worse withdrawal but although buprenorphine will make you feel better, it won't be the full effect you can get off buprenorphine.

I know it's a panicky moment but eventually after a few days you'll be alright on buprenorphine. Also, I hope you know that 160mg methadone is actually not comparable to any dose of buprenorphine. You may need even 24mg of buprenorphine at the beginning. Are you ready for this? Tapering down won't be fast either.

By the way, I still wonder why no detox would take in a patient with such a huge tolerance? People here are sometimes pushed to take ~150mg of methadone although they'd do alright on 80-100mg. So I'm sure they would take in a person with 160mg methadone habit (what's the difference between this and 2.5g heroin a day habit? none in my opinion as when I took heroin, the purity of H I was getting was ~20%, that meant it was great as for brown sugar... 2.5g * 20% = 500mg, it was sick).

Drug that might really help you is clonidine. It's a α2 adrenergic agonist and it's a sedative as well. It depresses one center that is also depressed after opioid intake but without general opioid action of course. It's very usable in such situations but it works in small doses so care must be taken. Benzodiazepines are another choice but don't mix those two. Clonazepam is long-acting and it's a great sedative, muscle relaxant, and anticonvulsant. But it might get you into trouble as it's addictive as well (and benzodiazepines are harder to kick than opioids so you don't want that), so I'd choose diazepam instead, it's also long-acting and it possesses the same properties, neither drug is a hypnotic.

But you'd need a prescription even for clonidine. If you can't get any of these, methocarbamol is alright. Also, get some NSAID that works good for you, doctors have no problem prescribing them. The best one for me is ketoprofen. I always keep 100mg pills with myself in case I get headache or boneache.

And yeah, report, you really need to get lower. This is a sick amount of methadone.

 

[benzico]

im saying a brick a day to keep him straight...obviously he aint gonna have fckin raw in his hands

160mg methadone keeps him straight 4 days..you honestly think a gram of h will get him by? what a fckin joke

A tenth of gear is almost 2 grams its only 0.25 under 2, and i was saying a T a day. been on 150mg of juice a day myself before for ages and i stoped that and took a tenth a day an was fine. meth aint that strong to long term user. take 300mg at once sum times and dont get much of a buzz an sum days im only taking 30-40mg on daily basics. but do agree for none opiate users 10mg will get them well high.

 

[benzico]

Ok guys so it's christmas eve and tomarrow morning is my last dose of methadone so I'm gonna try and get as far as I can before I take the suboxim. Can someone with experience can tell me what's the shortest time I have to wait to take the sub?? And I mean no precip wd's plzz.. Do you think 48-72 hours is plenty long or should I wait longer???? And I will keep everyone posted about how I'm doing... Problt be monday or tuesday befoee it gets bad... Also I just found some methocarbamol 500mg tabs will these be of any use??

the shortest time is 24 hours after your last dose, i have done plenty of detoxs and in the uk every doctor starts you on 4-8mg of subetex after 24 hours. you will still feel pretty crap on day one even day 2 an 3 but by day 4 on the subetex you should be ok, do not take to much on first day or you can makes your self go into worst w/d. you will want to take more but dont till 24 hours later!!! you will get sicker for defo, i have made that mistake myself before!!!

 

[adder]

(...) meth aint that strong to long term user. take 300mg at once sum times and dont get much of a buzz an sum days im only taking 30-40mg on daily basics. but do agree for none opiate users 10mg will get them well high.

I agree. I can double my dose and I hardly get any concrete high.

the shortest time is 24 hours after your last dose, i have done plenty of detoxs and in the uk every doctor starts you on 4-8mg of subetex after 24 hours. you will still feel pretty crap on day one even day 2 an 3 but by day 4 on the subetex you should be ok, do not take to much on first day or you can makes your self go into worst w/d. you will want to take more but dont till 24 hours later!!! you will get sicker for defo, i have made that mistake myself before!!!

That's why I'm against taking buprenorphine so fast after last methadone dose. The first dose of buprenorphine won't have the full effect. Keeping in mind it's 160mg methadone, I'd wait at least 48hrs and see how I feel for my own good to not get precipitated withdrawal and it's possible he won't need it after 48hrs yet.

 

[ephoenix]

i wish you the best i heard methadone is the the worst subs may make it bearable i would hold off on takeing the adderalls for a while till d/t is over with and you need a little pick me up to get over the final hump. p.s. dont inject the sub....

 

[v4lium]

The clinic I'm at weans people down like 4mg a month and thats considered a "fast" wean... I've been going down 30mg a week and am in a similar boat at this rate I'm withdrawling pretty bad cold turkey is just foolish from 160mg especially if youve been on it for a year. Methadone isn't hard to find on the street I would suggest finding another source.

 

[*=Regulator=*]

Just a couple of points...

Drug that might really help you is clonidine. It's a α2 adrenergic agonist and it's a sedative as well. It depresses one center that is also depressed after opioid intake but without general opioid action of course. It's very usable in such situations but it works in small doses so care must be taken. Benzodiazepines are another choice but don't mix those two.

You can absolutely mix Clonodine with benzos but should do so with medical supervision.

Clonazepam is long-acting and it's a great sedative, muscle relaxant, and anticonvulsant. But it might get you into trouble as it's addictive as well (and benzodiazepines are harder to kick than opioids so you don't want that), so I'd choose diazepam instead, it's also long-acting and it possesses the same properties, neither drug is a hypnotic.

Both Clonazepam and Dizaepam (and indeed, all benzodiazepines) are hypnotics.

But you'd need a prescription even for clonidine. If you can't get any of these, methocarbamol is alright. Also, get some NSAID that works good for you, doctors have no problem prescribing them. The best one for me is ketoprofen. I always keep 100mg pills with myself in case I get headache or boneache.

Ibuprofen is an NSAID that is available without a prescription if you get stuck.

 

[rawdudedc]

sucks

i did 120 in jail not quite as high but still hell. what i wud do is not take anything for 10 days because u gotta be in full withdrawal from methadone to get on subs. ur supposed to wait till ur at 40mg but 24mg sub and alot of benzos will go along way

 

[rawdudedc]

benzos

and fuck 5mg valium your gonna need about a hundred 2mg kpins if ur in the dc are hit my up and we can talk personally because ive done something similiar

 

[adder]

Thanks for your consern and if it gets to bad ill just jump on h for a few days and get into the clinic

This is going to cost you a lot (well, getting over 1g of methadone a week cost you as well). I guess you don't realize how much 160mg of methadone is. If you happen to live in some city when brown heroin is available, having even "good" quality heroin, you'd need like 0.5g just to survive.

Can't you really get into a clinic as a methadone addict? Or even tell at the clinic you're a heroin addict? Maybe the latter is a bad idea as they'd start with 40mg methadone at most at detox but so they will when you jump on heroin for a few days and then go as a heroin addict so it's not going to be easy anyway.

I've never seen people being given more than 40mg at the start. Even if they were in hospital to get on MMT so people with very big heroin tolerance could suffer even for a week before the right dose was achieved. I'm in the same situation as you concerning getting methadone (at least similar, I won't get on a program in my city as long as one idiot runs it, and here the doctor is the chief at the program, at the clinic, and at the hospital ward, everywhere). The highest dose I've ever taken was 80mg. I don't worry about my source, anyway you should always keep in mind the guy you buy from is a junkie. (S)he may still score heroin, may get caught on randomly taken tests and get kicked out of the program. That's the most probable thing - what do you think they do with the money they get from selling their methadone? they buy heroin in most cases, quite a funny way how a lot of legal money get into the black market. Also, junkies don't get rid of their past as they enter the program. They may have to pay alimony (and they don't, finally they get into jail), they may have been doing some illegal stuff and get caught etc.

I know how hard it is to function when you've been on some opioid for years and you decide to quit. It feels so great you finally will get rid of these chains. It does until you find out you can't enter the program for some reason. So you start getting methadone some other way. Now you plan to switch to Suboxone. It may work alright but I can tell from my experience it wasn't enough even at 16mg eventually. You may have to get back on methadone in the near future. Well, I walk past the point in my city where junkies get methadone and Suboxone from the program. If I had a problem with my source, they're all on high doses and get it once a week. If it's not a problem for me to know other junkies on the program, why would it be for you? And firstly, why can't you get on the program?

You can absolutely mix Clonodine with benzos but should do so with medical supervision.

I don't think he has it. Otherwise I've never said they're not used together.

Both Clonazepam and Dizaepam (and indeed, all benzodiazepines) are hypnotics.

For simplification I can agree with you that all benzodiazepine derivatives have: anxiolytic, anticonvulsant, myorelaxant, and hypnotic properties (although I don't find olanzapine anticonvulsant or myorelaxant at all and it's a 1,5-benzodiazepine, also there are other ones with completely different profile of action).

What I meant here is you're better in this situation with clonazepam or diazepam as their anxiolytic, anticonvulsant, and myorelaxant properties are the leading ones. Sure they're also hypnotics but I've never seen them used as sleep aids (I've got quite a tolerance and no benzodiazepine puts me to sleep but get some little tolerance and clonazepam won't cause amnesic effects like it does in quite small doses in benzo-naive people).

Ibuprofen is an NSAID that is available without a prescription if you get stuck.

Just as naproxen, acetylsalicylic acid, some salicylates, and ethenzamide are (at least in my country). Are we trying to help this guy in this thread or finger ourselves for some unimportant details?

 

[traybuck]

So it's been 72 hours with no methadone..and body pain is killing me.. I'm sweating perfussly..and my hands are shaky and I'm have multipul heat and cold flash's...my eye's are watery and my noise is running.. So there's no dought that I'm in full withdraw... Other then that I'm doing good. I'm so ready for the suboxin but I'm so scared of the precip withdrawls cuz I've had it happin once befor after 48 hours.. Do you guys think I'm safe??? Or should I try and wait it out another day??? Ohh and I've been able to keep water down but no food...and stomic cramps have been fairly minamal...any advice???? How much subs should I start with 24mg???? How should I take um subligually??? Or snort?? Thanks guys

 

[Doctor Dopefiend]

Use Seroquil and diazepam for the first 48-72 hours after 3 days you should be able to start Suboxone if you want to be safe, go for 5 days. then start your Suboxone id suggest doing like

12mg 12mg 8mg 8mg 6mg 6mg 4mg 4mg 4mg 3mg 3mg 2mg 2mg 2mg 1mg 2mg 1mg 1mg and stop and use what seroquel you got to sleep off the rest, its going to be helll but that diazepam and seroquel is going to be your angel

 

[DOC-EVERYTHING]

If you are in full on withdrawl i would just cut up about 2mg of suboxone and snort it too see how you feel. If it starts to get better sublingual 2mg at a time.

 

[adder]

You may safely take your Suboxone now. It won't cause any withdrawal, it may only not work as strong as it will later but notwithstanding it shall help you.

I've just read your first post again and I realized you have 25 8mg/2mg tablets, so you've got 200mg in total. 160mg methadone is a lot and after 72hrs it's probably crazy, I'd start with 8mg and if it doesn't help you, add 2mg more after 2 hours (you don't want to lose buprenorphine so increase the dose only after Tmax of your previous dose).

When you're done with that and you feel alright... What are your exact plans and expectations from buprenorphine? You don't have an unlimited access to Suboxone, you just have 200mg in 8mg/2mg tablets. It's OK, I'll make a quick schedule and see what I would do if I were you. Anyway the priority is to lower your tolerance and it can be done with that amount of Suboxone. Buprenorphine withdrawal from e.g. 0.25mg is nothing compared to withdrawal from 160mg methadone.

Snorting may be a bit more comfortable as you don't have to wait for the pill to dissolve under your tongue and most sources say buprenorphine has a bit higher bioavailability intranasally. Anyway, both vary but you will need to cut your pills anyway.

 

[opiatekrzy]

suboxone is the best thing for u when ur in methadone withdrawl, 8mg is all u need to be W/D free, and be pateient give it 2 hrs so all the pains and sores from WD will fade away, if not 16mg of suboxone is really the cut off level where it blocks all efffects from opiates, kills all physical W/D in a day

 

[opiatekrzy]

If you are in full on withdrawl i would just cut up about 2mg of suboxone and snort it too see how you feel. If it starts to get better sublingual 2mg at a time.

i reccommend MORE then 2mg of bupe coming off of that much methadone, whomever came up with that less is better is crazy, i need 8mg of siboxone to feel good when i wake up everyday, now if i were to take more then 8mg at one sitting, ill feel bad side effects, evereyones body is different, rather the people out there who take MCG's of bupe or people who really take 32mgs in one day, every1 is diff, and less isnt necessarily better

 

[TheDankaholic]

IVing 160MG OF METHADONE EVERY 2 DAYS. Thats one hellish tolerance. You would need so much heroin to even be comfortable

I know a lot of people are going "Wow that's one hell of a tolerance to IV 160mg of Methadone every few 2 days" coming from someone in the medical field (RN in the ER) & also volunteering at a methadone clinic that I participate in 160 mg's is not the uncommon of a dose at all. I let myself get to 110 mg everyday as my dose plus I was IV'ing 48+mgs of Dilaudid a day. 2x 24mg shots... one in the morning before my methadone and one at night late when it would be wearing off a little. Throw in 2 mg of Clonazepam a day & my slew of GI meds for my medical condition (the pain killers are a legal RX that's why I do some many D's. I'm RX'd 6x 8mg's a day of Dilaudid) So my tolerance was easily close to that without a problem. I actually hardly even ever got high from it just helped my Chronic pain. I The methadone makes your tolerance for Opiates insane.

Well the next rant someone is going to say is "Well he was IV'ing his methadone dose" well sure... that matters with drugs like say Dilaudid for example... or even Morphine because both of those drugs have a HORRIBLE bio-availability when taken orally. Both somewhere around 15% actually gets through your liver & to you. Methadone is like a lot like Oxycodone in sense of bio-availability. It's in the 90% +/- 5% range when taken orally, where of course IV is 100% as it bypasses all those pesky body organs that like to eat up certain drugs (maily the morphine family... Hydromorphone, Morphine, Oxymorphone) before they get through your BBB. It's your liver that does it...

But back to the topic whether he took it orally or IV'd the Methadone there is VERY little difference in the effect it would have on his tolerance to Methadone. That just isn't how Methadone works. Funny thing is IV Methadone doesn't even provide a rush (i've been stupid enough to do it in desperation even though I knew it was HORRIBLE for you to even try to inject a little a mount of that liquid, I was just in a horrible flair up and puking up all my Methadone doses I had and needed it in me not to cause me to have withdrawals on top of a bad flare up. That's hospital time when that happens)

It's weird because it even still does the classic Methadone thing where you don't hit a peak from it for hours into it. So there is no rush, the onset really isn't quicker, & its HORRIBLE for your health to IV that liquid. The viscosity is bad even diluted as you said you made it and how you did it. I'm very familiar with mixing fluid especially pain meds with saline bags and hooking them up to patients. The problem with that Methadone is it's viscous and has sugar in it even... they do this on purpose to keep you from IV'ing it. Once or twice like I did was bad enough I lost one of my favorite veins over it just doing it once that time when I was very sick. Your body does not naturally break down that thick syrup in your veins or a lot of the other ingredients besides the methadone in it on it's own. It will collect around your heart valves, your eyes capillaries, etc. You can easily lose a limb, have a pulmonary embolism, blood clot, etc. Anyone else ever considering this please don't. It's very bad for you.

Also working at the clinic it is not uncommon for patients I've seen to be on doses over 300mg because the state I'm from has no laws for MMT clinics to cap doses. A lot of state 180mg is the max. My state is sky's the limit on dosing mg because the only 2 clinics are "for profit" clinics & Methadone has only been available as a drug treatment for addicts for 2 years. That is why there is no cap yet on dosing mg's, I can personally say I know someone on 360mg a day. I think that's evil to do to anyone and should be banned.

I almost feel even the cap of 180 is too high. I was a 1-2 gram a day Heroin user plus 48mg a day Dilaudid user which actually is a lot stronger than 95% of street H. I couldn't cold turkey from that but no joke I was in took at 35mg & to start increasing 5 a day until I'm comfortable. I'm perfect at 60mg a day & If I didn't do what all methadone users do in MMT at first and keep increasing my dose trying to keep myself also "high" on the methadone I think I could have been perfect on just 40mg of methadone.

Methadone is strong and it takes a lot less to maintain and keep you out of w/d than you think. I feel the for profit clinics here just let you go up in does to whatever you want because they know you are screwed and stuck there because your "comfortable" detox would be extremely long if you didn't go AMA (against medical advice ) and create your own much faster taper plan meaning they keep you longer. They honestly cost me $3000 a year out of pocket no insurance is taken nor will mine reimburse me for it. To taper from 60mg to 0 at THERE plan would take like 6 months. I can't imagine from 300mg and up.

So tolerance from IV is no different then tolerance from oral Methadone use...

sorry if I got a little off topic im really stoned and did 16mg of Dilaudid straight to my arm & then drank my 60mg of Methadone for the day. You ever have a sentence take you like 10 min. to finish because your having to close one of your eyes just to be able to read what your typing without going blurry and nodding out on bluelight trying to help out? Haha totally kidding but I love & hate when your so high on opiates you have to close one eye and open the other to be able to even read words

 

[adder]

Methadone oral bioavailability is more like 80-90% and that is when you do everything right. Otherwise you might get even as low as 50% from your dose. That very little difference between oral and intravenous methadone is because there's no rush after injecting methadone.

I know it is common here for people to get ultra high doses of methadone like 150-200mg a day (all at once or split). And I find it stupid because I earlier I saw same people on doses below 100mg and they were doing just fine. Anyway things are definitely different where I live if you say tapering from 60mg to 0 would take ~6 months. Well, it's a heaven on Earth then. I've seen people being brought to 0 from 40mg in like 6 days. It was crazy as I looked at one guy in hospital who was clearly experiencing withdrawal symptoms but the others kept telling him he makes himself believe it's withdrawal while it's all normal.

Also, you can do even 200mg of methadone a day if you want but that's if you're sure you won't lose your source of methadone. That equals being on MMT. He wasn't on MMT, he bought methadone and let his tolerance go so high he had to take 160mg. And at this point it really doesn't matter if it was once for 2 days or it kept him alright for 4 days. I've never taken more than 80mg regularly IIRC, it might be twice when I had to start at/over 100mg when I was getting off 2.5g heroin a day habit or high-dose morphine habit. Otherwise I see no reason to go so high. In places like here it leads to a situation when there's much more addicted people in queue to get on the program than there's methadone. The other thing is we buy that expensive Italian shit and we could buy methadone syrup from Slovakia much cheaper. But it's never been right in this country.

The same thing may happen with Suboxone he has if he doesn't taper down. He just wrote he had 25 pills and nothing about possibility of getting more if needed. I used up like almost 2g of buprenorphine in a matter of 3 months and it got me nowhere.

Like I said, I would start at 8mg and work my way up if it weren't enough. He's got 200mg of bupe in those pills in total, so he may run out of these quite fast.

 

[traybuck]

Funny thing is IV Methadone doesn't even provide a rush (i've been stupid enough to do it in desperation even though I knew it was HORRIBLE for you to even try to inject a little a mount of that liquid, I was just in a horrible flair up and puking up all my Methadone doses I had and needed it in me not to cause me to have withdrawals on top of a bad flare up. That's hospital time when that happens)....It's weird because it even still does the classic Methadone thing where you don't hit a peak from it for hours into it. So there is no rush, the onset really isn't quicker

well thanks but your life story did me no good.. for one.when you shoot that amount of methadone into your body in less then one minute there IS A RUSH.NOT THAT I CONDONE IT IN ANY WAY....And some ppl do get sick from shooting it like a friend of mine was using it to kick an oc habit and she would get sick from it but not everyone has this problum..drugs react different to everybody.. but what was the point of your rant??? really that its bad??? well no shit.. i know this allready...i dont mean to sound or come off like a dick but your life story was all about your view on methadone use when were here to talk about getting off of it and i found no usefull info in you long rant...