Agrovet Ketamine... what gives?

[Jamshyd]

I recently had the chance to use this peruvian-made Ketamine. Not only did I find its effects consistently different from all K that I'd tried in the last 7 years (which was mostly Indian-made), or lab-made S-Ketamine, but also this is the first time ever that I have suffered from urinary trouble (bladder pain, etc), and I haven't been especially abusing it.

What on earth is going on?

I've had one person tell me that Agrovet is actually R-Ketamine.

Reading the ingredients, I see that it does not contain benzalkonium chloride.

Perhaps, if we were assume that norketamine results in bladder irritation (as the most accepted theory seems to go), then perhaps the benzalkonium was actually preventing these infections?

Or at the very least, affecting the drugs' psychoactivity so notably?

Or is it simply that I was bound to get bladder trouble sooner or later, and that it just happened to manifest when I tried this new brand?

 

[General Patton]

That's interesting Jam, I never would have though you'd find an issue with ANY batch of Ket! I always tend to have urinary trouble with Ket, which is pretty much the only flaw I've found with it... So I didn't really notice a difference in that respect with this batch, I was just expecting it. As to the potential difference in isomers, I thought R was the less potent one of the two. I found these batches to be slightly more potent and short-acting than usual, so I assumed S+ but I suppose that could be due to loss of tolerance and the fact that I've yet to take a full dose.

Keep us updated in any case. For science!

 

[Delsyd]

ive used agrovet plenty of times. I cant say i noticed too much of a difference between it and other K.
Then again i do find that some brands are different from others.
One that really sticks out as being unique is the Holiday Scott Brand.

And i still havent had bladder issues from Ketamine use, so my guess is your use has caught up to you and it wasnt this particular brand.

 

[Jesusgreen]

I'd say you're most likely just used to S-Ketamine, as R-Ketamine is VERY different, my first time taking R-Ketamine I was astounded, and ended up holing off half my usual dose and throwing up everywhere.

I think with daily use bladder trouble is unavoidable after a long period of time, I believe hospitals administer a diluted solution to avoid it's irritant effects - maybe you could try this, so that you can continue the use, but with lessened risks? I know this is what I'd do in your situation, as Ketamine is wonderfully useful, but also comes with it's risks in the long run.

I don't know anything about benzalkonium chloride so I can't say how that affects the bladder/kidney damage or the psychoactive effects.

Do you know other people who use Ketamine? If you do, I'd suggest finding someone who's not used much Ketamine at all, but likes it and would happily use some more, and giving him a few grams of the Agrovet to try - if he experienced similar effects it's almost certainly something specific to that brand, or R-Ketamine, or the lack of this benzalkonium chloride - if not, most likely just finally hit the bad side of Ketamine on your part.

Interestingly I also had bladder pain after using R-Ketamine when I never really abused Ketamine all that much, but it was only there for the duration of the experience (and a couple hours after) so it might have been psychosomatic.

 

[trip.more]

Or is it simply that I was bound to get bladder trouble sooner or later, and that it just happened to manifest when I tried this new brand?

I would agree with this. I usually never have issues but it's happened on occasion.

 

[Solipsis]

I thought all liquid / commercial ketamine was either racemic or S (because the S is the anaesthetic one and that is the sought after quality) so I don't think that agrovet is R, nor have I ever heard of a brand being that.

About the benzalkonium preventing bladder infection, AFAIK the problem with K is scarring and thickening of the bladder walls plus an increase in chance of bladder infection. The benzalkonium is added as - like you say yourself - a preservative. Not that I'm saying it's untrue or impossible, but seeking a cause for such an effect or even the absence of prevention of adverse effects is too long a stretch and unfounded if you ask me.

What about other drugs you are using in the same frame of time as this agrovet? They might make you vulnerable, who knows.

Something that may be likely is synthesis impurities although I have never heard about known precursors or reactants that have effects you mention.

My K-pains were with ketamine of good quality, of Indian origin and not from a liquid source - just a solid product, and while there was some abuse I have done more since then and never had K-pains as such.
I do think that your last remark is the one to focus on Jam

 

[Blowmonkey]

I agree, maybe it's time to switch to non-ketamine NMDA antagonist alternatives before you find yourself in a similar situation as John Lily.

 

[amanitadine]

Never had any problems with agrovet (or noticed any difference) but then again, I am one of the weirdos who has never experienced any bladder problems with ketamine. I've been using it for 15 years, always I.M., and have gone through periods of terrible excessive use, grams in a night, for every night, for months on end at times. I've been on a long hiatus as it just doesnt seem to work anymore (waaaay too muc h of a good thing! )I always have to pee throughout a session, but thats the extent of it. No irritation though...

And yeah, I really don't think there is R-Ketamine in vials, just racemic and S, and S I still believe is a lot rarer in vials than most people think. Like I've said before, I believe the only vial that is S-ketamine is ketanest S. I may be wrong but...it is alot more expensive and difficult to separate the isomers, and a manufacturer would openly advertise such, and Ketanest-S is the only brand I've ever seen doing such. It is also a relatively recent approach to use the S isomer medically...I remember when Sigma-Aldrich first started offering it experimentally, back in maybe 1996?

Anyhoo, I hope the irritation doesnt become chronic....sounds like a most unpleasant conclusion to a delicious experience!