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Do you or anyone you know seem heavily addicted to Marijuana?

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w01fg4ng said:
Psychological addictions can be more over-powering than metabolic addictions. Like I said before, it's what the PERSON chooses to do with it which makes it an addiction or not.
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Dude give it up weed is an addiction but its ultimately very mild, compared to other drugs which are far more addictive, more potential for addiction, increased severity of addiction.

I agree though that psychological addiction can be more over-powering than physical addiction, but going to jail for weed? I feel you on it being addictive, but unless we're changing the definition of heavy addiction, marijuana dosn't cause "heavy addiction" and people are not heavily addicted to it.

Weed can get somewhat serious, and sap peoples motivation, causing a kind of cycle of just blazing up and reinforcing the apathy. But its nothing like other drugs.

I'm not trying to argue for the sake of it but you seem to be implying that marijuana can be heavily addictive, which just isnt true, if that is true what are we going to call methadone addiction, ultra heavy addiction? If you were to line up all the drugs and try to arrange them in a linear fasion from least addictive to most addictive, factoring in every possible factor, alot of drugs would be subjective i guess, but marijuana most definitely would not be sitting along side heroin in terms of addictiveness.

So yeah like i said, aint no body heavily addicted to weed, weed aint no heavy addiction. It's addictive very mildly physically and mild/moderately mentally. Heroin for example is severely physically addictive and severely mentally addictive. With heroin people are so driven to not be sick they can be so desperate to use extremely unsanitary means to put the drug into their body, weed smokers are nothing like this, smoking resin from your pipe is fucked up but nothing compared to a sick, desperate seasoned dope addict. Thats all i wanna say. So stop exaggerating how addictive weed is, get some perspective and put weed where it belongs in your veiw of the drug world.
 
There ISNT established definitions for video game addiction, so its not like they did something unethical in how they reported.

Also, you claimed 8-10% addiction rates for marijuana, but I keep seeing 1-4%. Are you cherry picking statistics? I have only seen about 12, but I havnt seen any as high as 8% yet.

Yes, I think you should cede the point on multiple grounds....your numbers dont seem to match up with mine AND like the other article I posted, what difference does it make if its 1% or 4% or 8%? 1% is significant in this context.


I am not doubting that psychological addictions can be powerful or problematic. The ONLY thing I am debating at this point is that there is perhaps groups for distinguishing psychological addictions from metabolic/hypothalamus-pituitary-metabolic addictions.....Thats it. Im not trying to undermine that some people have serious problems with psychological addictions, but the evidence for chemical dependence with marijuana is weak and inconclusive, there is no known habitation in the sense of hypothalamus-pituitary which is what produces nicotine and cocaine cravings, there is no metabolic addiction leading to physical dysfunction that is clearly proven to exist.

I am not saying that psychological addictions dont exist, or that they are so mild they can be ignored, only that there is justification for a distinction.


Its complicated treating a metabolic addiction, and overcoming the regulation of the hypothalamus-pituitary system takes a serious dedication and act of will.....and generally speaking it has equal potential if not greater for psychological dependence IN ADDITION to these powerful biological reminders that weigh the mind down like a ball and chain.

No doubt, a minority of users can get seriously carried away, even become psychologically dependent, exhibiting multiple criteria for addiction, meeting the clinical definition of addiction easily.

I am just saying that there is grounds for distinction of definition when you are also dealing with a metabolic addiction.....the treatment plan is going to be different. You dont need to tapper somebody off marijuana. You dont need to provide emergency medical care because they are dope sick. There are generally no "cravings"....and by cravings I specifically mean cravings similar to hunger and sex and thirst, controlled by the pituitary-hypothalamus.....not a psychological aversion to sobriety or a psychological desire to get stoned, or any triggering of the reward centers at all....because that can clearly happen with weed, sometimes.



Is it really that controversial to suggest that maybe a distinction should be made between harder drugs that produce metabolic cravings and make you dope sick, vs drugs that are primarily habit forming yet meet the clinical definition of addiction?
 
^I was very clear how I got my marijuana addiction rate numbers- MY OWN estimates. I never said they were official numbers and whether my numbers are correct or yours are is irrelevant... my point in proffering my estimates was to show that although the rates are far lower than more addictive drugs, the phenomenon exists. Your numbers do not disprove this, they PROVE it.

I never said anything about ethics violations by using an alternative definition of addiction, just that the figures are worthless to your arguments.

Its like if I say some new cancer has X rates but I'm using a completely different definition of cancer. Comparing MY cancer rates to established ones are useless, they are comparing different things. If alternate definitions and criteria are used for video game 'addiction' and substance 'addiction', comparing the rates is wholly useless.

In regards to "metabolic" addiction (I assume you mean addiction that produces physiological adaptations), you're seriously speaking beyond your understanding.

Not all addiction (using your definition that physiological dependence is requisite) produces changes in the functioning of the HPA Axis. Allostasis really only comes into play in severe cases over time so unless you're going to further adapt your definition to only include addicts with a substantial allostatic load, this whole discussion about HPA involvement is superfluous.

You can make your points without referencing complex physiological processes that you clearly don't understand very well... but I suspect you are intentionally using these so people without education will think you know what you're talking about.

I've spent a lot of class time specifically focusing on the physiological and neurological adaptations that occur as a result of prolonged exposure to various chemicals of abuse... what I can tell is that you do not have even a cursory understanding of these processes.

Throughout this entire debate, you seem to go learn A SMALL portion about an issue, completely strip it from its context then bend it to use it as evidence to support your position. Please stop doing this.
 
i find its the opposite of addictive. if i smoke to much i feel tired in general and need to stop for a few days. unlike other drugs where the body just needs it without question.
 
Sentience said:
I am just saying that there is grounds for distinction of definition when you are also dealing with a metabolic addiction.....the treatment plan is going to be different. You dont need to tapper somebody off marijuana. You dont need to provide emergency medical care because they are dope sick. There are generally no "cravings"....and by cravings I specifically mean cravings similar to hunger and sex and thirst, controlled by the pituitary-hypothalamus.....not a psychological aversion to sobriety or a psychological desire to get stoned, or any triggering of the reward centers at all....because that can clearly happen with weed, sometimes.
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You don't need to taper someone off of cocaine or amphetamines. They don't require 'emergency medical care' (we prefer the term "Inpatient Detox" or ASAM level IV). Talk to someone who has used cocaine and amphetamine extensively- despite producing virtually no physical withdrawal, these produce arguably THE strongest cravings experienced.
 
Cane2theLeft said:
I never said anything about ethics violations by using an alternative definition of addiction, just that the figures are worthless to your arguments.
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I think its unfortunate that we are arguing about something as petty as the addictiveness as marijuana, but....

This statement is misleading because its not an alternative definition. There IS NOT AN ESTABLISHED DEFINITION. Therefor its not an alternative definition. The criteria is yet to be established.

You pulled a number out of your ass with no credibility behind it. All of your numbers are suspect. I used real sources. The potential for bias in your own personal studies is too great and is a lot less credible than the sources I have provided.

Not all addiction (using your definition that physiological dependence is requisite) produces changes in the functioning of the HPA Axis
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I didnt say that all chemical dependencies do so....antidepressants are an example of this, but they dont produce the cravings of cocaine/nicotine.

I never claimed that dependence = addiction.

In regards to "metabolic" addiction (I assume you mean addiction that produces physiological adaptations), you're seriously speaking beyond your understanding.
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No, metabolic addiction is established terminology. I didnt just make it up, and I dont just mean anything that causes dependency.

Alcohol produces a metabolic addiction. Metabolic is the correct terminology for something like alcohol. Metabolic addiction is one type of dependency. I am not saying its synonymous with all forms of dependency or that dependency = addiction.


You are misrepresenting my arguments, and you are pulling numbers out of your ass with no evidence to support them.
 
this seems to be getting derailed.

Cannabis can be addictive in the same sense gambling or sex or any other activity that release reward center neurotransmitters can be. Simply smelling weed can release dopamine, ACh, etc. The act of smoking can do the same....

That said, comparing the addiction potential of cannabis to virtually any other drug is beyond horrible. Look at the legal drugs out there. Alcohol and cigs are far more addictive and the W/Ds are much worse.

Legal scripts like opiates... A heavy user will hit W/Ds that make you feel like your legs literally have been beaten by a baseball bat and your face has been pounded on cement for hours.

The psychological addiction of Cannabis is the main concern and thats simply the willpower to get over it. It's difficult but in comparison to other drugs it's a walk in the park. It's a lifestyle change for the most part, a changing of your frame of mind. The actual physical W/Ds are a joke - inability to sleep, apitite loss, weight gain/loss, and slight depression or boredom is nothing compared to even benzo w/d (seizures, anyone?).

I've never known anyone who would suck a dick for a 20 bag of cannabis. That's all I'm saying. But yes, I know people who have had issues with cannabis use.
 
Thank you, and I agree.

ALL I am arguing for is a distinction between psychological and metabolic addiction.....The metabolic model of addiction is an established theory, I didnt pull it out of my ass or just mean "any form of dependency at all".

I dont believe that addictive personality is the sole determining factor of addiction. I think its the result of biological changes produced by the drug itself....at least in "heavily addictive" substances.


Arguing for a distinction really shouldnt be this controversial. My terminology is fine, though maybe I need to make myself more clear.
 
As far as making a distinction between drugs that produce characteristic withdrawal syndrome and those that do not (such as cannabis) I'm totally with you.

When someone is diagnosed by a doctor or treatment professional as "substance dependent" its specified whether this is with or without physiological dependence.
 
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^huh? Why even reply then? Get over it mate you're not a drug addict you're a pothead.

You're here trying to basically say your weed addiction has cost you several arrests, rejection of jobs, marijuana addiction is so horrible blah.

Shaddap! stop talking so much crap.

No one, repeat no one is heavily addicted to marijuana, maybe heavily obsessed.
 
If you want to start taking jabs at each other, take it to PM's. No need to derail this thread.
 
Okay, this is getting ridiculous. Chainer already said something, and so did Cane...stop derailing the thread, this thread is about having a substance abuse problem with marijuana, which is a very real thing. Don't bother commenting in here if you are just going to say something negative or insult someones intelligence. If this thread does not go in the direction it should (positively), it's going to be closed, and/or people are gonna get warned. The last 5 posts or so even after a warning are ridiculous...please keep it clean guys.
 
Yeah, its not worth fighting about......debates are ok, but ultimately we should learn from the people we disagree with.
 
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