Nootropics to combat drug-induced psychosis?

[Jabberwocky]

deja vu can be associated with ictal psychosis. feelings of presences, jamais vu, spatial distortions, blacking out or running on autpilot, can all be temporal lobe signs along with deja vu. derealiation and depersonalization can be related to temporal lobe stuff also.

A sleep deprived EEG from a neurologist is one of the tests that can help sort that sort of thing out. If it is temporal lobe focal epilepsy or related to temporal lobe problems part of the strategy would become anti-seizure drugs or at least avoiding any drugs that tend to lower the seizure threshold. It would really take a competent neurologist and the tools they have to find out if this is the problem.

What are the other psychotic symptoms? Head trauma would not have to be involved for the mental health situation to be ictal but was there any head trauma previous to these problems starting?

 

[Psykonaut]

deja vu can be associated with ictal psychosis. feelings of presences, jamais vu, spatial distortions, blacking out or running on autpilot, can all be temporal lobe signs along with deja vu. derealiation and depersonalization can be related to temporal lobe stuff also.

A sleep deprived EEG from a neurologist is one of the tests that can help sort that sort of thing out. If it is temporal lobe focal epilepsy or related to temporal lobe problems part of the strategy would become anti-seizure drugs or at least avoiding any drugs that tend to lower the seizure threshold. It would really take a competent neurologist and the tools they have to find out if this is the problem.

What are the other psychotic symptoms? Head trauma would not have to be involved for the mental health situation to be ictal but was there any head trauma previous to these problems starting?

Well, the only head trauma that I've ever had included 2 minor concussions that I suffered from years ago (I was about 11 or 12 the last time anything like that happened, so it was at least 8 years ago). I don't recall having any head trauma since then (physically at least).

I noticed the deja vu almost instantly after my second dxm trip (300mg dxm hbr), after ingesting 20 robitussin cough gels..the trip was absolutely insane and I had smoked some cannabis right before taking them. It was a very terrifying experience and I felt like I was losing my mind..this took place in march of 2008.

The only salvia that I ever smoked was from a website called salviadragon.net (sorry if posting a source is against the forum rules), and it was only 10x extraction. It was called "Salvia Dragon" and it was apparently a mixture of Salvia Divinorum and Calea Zecatechichi (aka the "dream herb"), I didn't find out it was an actual mixture until long after having already used it.

*snip*

For all I know, the dream herb could have f'd me up from the get go, which salvia and dxm just further added on to its effects.

 

[Psykonaut]

Sorry for posting a source, it wasn't my intention to break the forum rules =( so I must apologize..I don't want anyone else smoking this stuff honestly, it's made me go insane and I wouldn't want the same for another person..anyway.

I read that DXM can cause temporal lobe epilepsy, which can cause a lot of deja vu resulting from simple partial seizures..does anyone have knowledge about this mental disorder and if it can be cured completely? (This was completely drug induced, it wasn't something I dealt with before the drug use). I'm just so tired of driving myself crazy over this..thanks in advance.

 

[Jabberwocky]

Cured, not usually. Well managed yes. How well someone responds to different meds and therapies varies a lot. But it could be more of what I call temporal lobe liability then epilepsy. You will definitely want to avoid any meds that badly effect the seizure threshold. Tramadol is one example among many and you'll want to avoid for this reason. Look for info about how nootropics or supplements effect the seizure threshold. I know in his book "Change your brain, change your life" Dr Amen talked about ways to firm up the temporal lobes with meds, maybe somewhat with supplements as well. The whole book wasn't dedicated to temporal lobe stuff but there was a good segment dedicated to temporal lobe symptoms and care for the layman. The book sold enough copies that you can likely find a copy at your library.

Sorry I didn't notice the deja vu til later in the thread even though it was right there in your first post. Troubling, frequent deja vu is mostly temporal and sometimes is epilepsy. Deja vu isn't always going to be present in temporal lobe but it is a profound deja vus that happen often are often a marker of TL involvement.

I've seen references to taurine and other supplements helping seizure like disorders but it is something that really take pharmaceuticals and doctor supervision imo.

 

[Psykonaut]

Cured, not usually. Well managed yes. How well someone responds to different meds and therapies varies a lot. But it could be more of what I call temporal lobe liability then epilepsy. You will definitely want to avoid any meds that badly effect the seizure threshold. Tramadol is one example among many and you'll want to avoid for this reason. Look for info about how nootropics or supplements effect the seizure threshold. I know in his book "Change your brain, change your life" Dr Amen talked about ways to firm up the temporal lobes with meds, maybe somewhat with supplements as well. The whole book wasn't dedicated to temporal lobe stuff but there was a good segment dedicated to temporal lobe symptoms and care for the layman. The book sold enough copies that you can likely find a copy at your library.

Sorry I didn't notice the deja vu til later in the thread even though it was right there in your first post. Troubling, frequent deja vu is mostly temporal and sometimes is epilepsy. Deja vu isn't always going to be present in temporal lobe but it is a profound deja vus that happen often are often a marker of TL involvement.

I've seen references to taurine and other supplements helping seizure like disorders but it is something that really take pharmaceuticals and doctor supervision imo.

Thank you Enki.

Do you know of any drugs that have been studied to help with pcp or other dissociative drug induced psychosis? This deja vu comes and goes and is pretty infrequent now, but I'd still like to get of it completely..once I get enough money, I'll see a neurologist, but that won't be for a good while at least.

 

[FrequentFlyer]

Hi Psyko,

I've suffered from a drug induced psychosis myself a small decade ago. While mine was caused by taking too many e it did put me in the same state of mind (paranoid schizophrenic thingy). I was completely cured after a few years, even the deja-vu's during trips went away completely. I hope this helps:

Drug induced psychoses can be perfectly treated by anti-psychotics(Risperdal in my case). I had no side effects besides weight gain. I wouldn't worry too much about other side effects. In most cases these only manifest themselves at high doses of anti-psychotics (6mg and up for risperdal). I don't think you need that much. Your experience sounds familiar to mine and i got better with a regimen of 3 mg a day.
You need a psychiatrist not a neurologist for treating psychoses. Finding a proper psychiatrist can be difficult, but don't get discouraged. Look for someone who specializes in addiction treatment.
Don't start medicating without proper medical advise, it will f you up more for sure.
I wouldn't rely on nootropics too much. Sports and a proper diet are far better like interleukin stated.
English is not my native tongue so i hope this is all clear.

I'm going for a check-up tomorrow. I'll ask him about treatment of dissociative-induced psychoses and will let you know what i find out.

 

[Psykonaut]

Hi Psyko,

I've suffered from a drug induced psychosis myself a small decade ago. While mine was caused by taking too many e it did put me in the same state of mind (paranoid schizophrenic thingy). I was completely cured after a few years, even the deja-vu's during trips went away completely. I hope this helps:

Drug induced psychoses can be perfectly treated by anti-psychotics(Risperdal in my case). I had no side effects besides weight gain. I wouldn't worry too much about other side effects. In most cases these only manifest themselves at high doses of anti-psychotics (6mg and up for risperdal). I don't think you need that much. Your experience sounds familiar to mine and i got better with a regimen of 3 mg a day.
You need a psychiatrist not a neurologist for treating psychoses. Finding a proper psychiatrist can be difficult, but don't get discouraged. Look for someone who specializes in addiction treatment.
Don't start medicating without proper medical advise, it will f you up more for sure.
I wouldn't rely on nootropics too much. Sports and a proper diet are far better like interleukin stated.
English is not my native tongue so i hope this is all clear.

I'm going for a check-up tomorrow. I'll ask him about treatment of dissociative-induced psychoses and will let you know what i find out.

Thank you for the insightful post. I will do some more research on antipsychotics. Which one is considered the safest? I don't want anything else to fuck up my brain chemistry or possibly shorten my life expectancy. I want to make sure that whatever I take will cure me of these delusions and disturbing thought patterns. I have manic depression and there's a history of mental health disorders in my family. I'm currently going through a major depressive stage with my bipolar disorder and I also notice that I experience frequent bouts of anxiety.

 

[General Patton]

Thank you for the insightful post. I will do some more research on antipsychotics. Which one is considered the safest? I don't want anything else to fuck up my brain chemistry or possibly shorten my life expectancy. I want to make sure that whatever I take will cure me of these delusions and disturbing thought patterns. I have manic depression and there's a history of mental health disorders in my family. I'm currently going through a major depressive stage with my bipolar disorder and I also notice that I experience frequent bouts of anxiety.

I was going to mention something of this nature, but wasn't sure how to phrase it-I'm glad you brought up the topic. The extreme depressive end of bi-polar disorder can include alot of dissociative-like derealization and panic-type thoughts. This combined with the trauma of a bad dissociative experience can cause you to re-experience the trauma over and over again in different ways. Sounds like you're on the right track for solving your problems, you're considering all the options and weighing the possible benefits against your health.

As for your question on the last page, the only drug studied on both acute and chronic PCP use is the anti-psychotic risperidone. Which is again something that you'd need a psychologist, neurologist or a general practitioner to prescribe and monitor. But it might be like using a sledgehammer to pound in a nail if your problems aren't severe enough to necessitate the possible side effects. I was personally given fairly high doses of another neuroleptic, Seroquel, for bi-polar and I felt like it made the derealization aspect worse even if I took it as prescribed right to the dot.

However the only time that prescription was worthwhile was when I was binging on K and PCP and used it to calm me down during a period of withdrawal. There were of course side-effects, and I didn't persist in taking it for more than a few weeks, but it did do the job it's supposed to do-stop intrusive psychotic thoughts. But I would say that on the whole, the level of side-effects are more extreme than almost any psychoactive-including dissociatives (ironically, heh) and I'd discourage their use unless totally necessary. I also think they might be less effective against DXM than K or PCP related issues because of the difference in receptors they activate. Anti-psychotics generally sedate and block a runaway dopamine metabolism which is the current (and possibly out-moded) theory of shizophrenia/psychosis but I don't know how DXM relates to this, sorry.

 

[Cerebral]

Beta-phenyl-gamma-aminobutyric acid (Phenibut)

Hey guys,

I was wondering if anyone knows of any nootropics or other substances that are effective at relieving long-term alterations/brain damage from dissociative drugs (namely dextromethorphan). When I was younger, I robo-tripped 4 times and the last one triggered an intense 2 year psychosis, causing me to go into a paranoid schizophrenic type state of mind (insane delusions and memory problems on top of everything else)..It's been over 2 years since I've ever touched this stuff and it was most definitely the worst drug I've ever used (I will never touch dxm again, even in minute-doses).

I have since been using Piracetam (it's been about 5 months now), but it's only helped so much..I need to repair the NMDA receptor system and anything else that dextromethorphan affects. I still get random bouts of deja vu and I want to stop that experience at all costs (I don't find deja vu to be a normal experience, but a brain dysfunction)..I used to get deja vu almost every day after smoking salvia and tripping on dxm..that lasted for over a year, but as time went by, the effects became more and more subtle..my goal is to just heal my mind from the damage brought on from the drugs and to maximize my brains thinking capabilities. I've quit all illicit substances for well over a year now and I don't ever plan on going back to my old lifestyle. The only psychoactive drugs I take now are nootropics and caffeine.

If anyone has any sound advice please feel free to post, I know a good amount about nootropics but I only know so much..I can't find too much information related to this issue online as my problem doesn't seem to be very common at all. Thank you for reading my post and I look forward to reading your comments.

Phenibut - it's basically GABA with a phenyl group added so it can cross the blood brain barrier and affect the central nervous system rather than the peripheral. You can order this supplement on Amazon. I would recommend doing some research and finding a dose that is effective for you (probably 1-3 grams).

 

[Psykonaut]

Phenibut - it's basically GABA with a phenyl group added so it can cross the blood brain barrier and affect the central nervous system rather than the peripheral. You can order this supplement on Amazon. I would recommend doing some research and finding a dose that is effective for you (probably 1-3 grams).

Do you have personal experience with phenibut? And if you do, what effects has it given you? I did some reading up on it and found that it has some anti convulsant properties, as well as helping with insomnia (which I suffer from as well). Thanks.

 

[Psykonaut]

General Patton, thanks for your elaborate post. I'm extremely apprehensive about taking antipsychotics, I'd really like that to be my last resort in terms of getting help. What are your thoughts on selegiline?

 

[Jabberwocky]

Selegiline is going to create a general increase in dopamine by stopping a usual means of dopamine breakdown. It is a cognitive boost in many situations but to be avoided when there is psychosis or other problems who's nature can be described as a malfunction. imo it is more likely to worsen problems than help in your situation.

 

[Psykonaut]

Selegiline is going to create a general increase in dopamine by stopping a usual means of dopamine breakdown. It is a cognitive boost in many situations but to be avoided when there is psychosis or other problems who's nature can be described as a malfunction. imo it is more likely to worsen problems than help in your situation.

Oh, dang..I've heard nothing but great things about selegiline until now. I definitely like cognitive boosters but I don't want to take anything that may further complicate my situation. What is your opinion on phenibut, noopept, and gabapentin? Sorry for the overwhelming questions lol.

 

[FrequentFlyer]

Which one is considered the safest?

Considering the chats i had with my psychiatrist, i'd say Invega. (I still go there once in a while. Since i don't need any more medical treatment we just chat a bit about brain chemistry and the latest rc developments) It's a slow release tablet containing paliperidon. Slow release is always easier on the body because it doesn't cause plasma peaks like others. Also, paliperidon is actually a metabolite of risperidone (risperdal) and because of this has much fewer side effects.

 

[Solipsis]

Phenibut is a proper mood enhancer if taking with periods of discontinuation but I really don't see how this addresses the core of the matter.
Sure, negative psychological symptoms like derealization and the like must be terribly disconcerting - luckily it has always been transient and induced (i.e. expected after taking a lot of arketamine) for me and therefore nothing to really worry about... but my point is, there is no wonder if it results in a good deal of anxiety.

Dealing with anxiety by taking phenibut or benzo's or something else (ludes, barbiturates, GHB, etc etc etc) is symptom management. I would not recommend against phenibut but it won't cure anything for you. Also, don't take any GABAergic too much.
A few lorazepam or something on hand for the real manic moods or panic attacks as a secondary effect from your symptoms may be okay but in your situation also best discussed with a physician.

 

[Psykonaut]

I have an appointment set up on tuesday with a therapist (not sure if it's actually a psychologist or if they're taking me to a psychiatrist), but it's at a local mental health clinic..hopefully they can help me out with some medication, I just don't want them to put me on any mind-numbing or damaging drugs that are addictive. Any advice from anyone regarding my situation? There are a few different medications that I've been looking at to potentially help me, how could I convince them to consider the drugs I'm interested in? Thanks.

 

[Delta-9-THC]

I find it very interesting that you experience Deja Vu from these drugs. My one breakthrough on Salvia (which was also one of the most terrifying experiences, drug induced or not, I've ever had) was characterized by an intense and overwhelming sensation of Deja Vu.

I didn't know who, what, or where I was but I had the unshakeable perception that I had experienced all of it before many times.

 

[Psykonaut]

I find it very interesting that you experience Deja Vu from these drugs. My one breakthrough on Salvia (which was also one of the most terrifying experiences, drug induced or not, I've ever had) was characterized by an intense and overwhelming sensation of Deja Vu.

I didn't know who, what, or where I was but I had the unshakeable perception that I had experienced all of it before many times.

This is exactly how I feel, especially while I was on the Salvia itself..it was an eerily creepy feeling and brought on intense anxiety..it's almost as if I was reliving my life all over again and feeling these profound experiences from somewhere in the past..I don't really know how to explain it, other than it's just insane. After dxm and salvia, I started forming delusions that the universe somehow repeated itself and that my life was a program that was being replayed all over again. It's batshit crazy..I thought that humans in the future somehow mastered time travel and set us back in the past..I know it sounds utterly insane but I was hysterical after ingesting these drugs. Also after using salvia, I felt as though I could see into the future.

 

[Psykonaut]

It's almost as if Salvia opened up a part of my mind that was supposed to be kept hidden..some people might call it enlightenment, but I call it a terrible accident..it's as if I was shown something that wasn't supposed to be seen, and now the effects have turned my mind inside out and are driving my insane. I abused Salvia, and didn't take it the way it was meant to be taken (nature doesn't intend on having plants smoked for their psychoactive properties). Maybe I'm just thinking way too far into this but I just want to get to the bottom of the issue. Salvia Divinorum has changed my life forever, and not for the good (at least in my opinion). I can't embrace this change and I just wish I could go back to a normal state of realization.

Edit: Apparently I'm not the only person that's dealt with this type of experience and mind alteration from Salvia, I found a forum page with a few other people that shared similar experiences to me:

http://www.theopia.com/viewtopic.php?p=23717&

How can Salvia cause someone to lose their mind? Does it only work on the kappa-opioid receptors in the brain? I think it does a lot more to your brain chemistry (just my opinion), but I don't think scientists have quite figured out what it does or it's true mechanism of action (or at least all of it).

 

[Psykonaut]

Bump..

Does anyone know of, or have personal experience with CBD (cannabidiol)? I did some research on it and found out that it's occasionally used as an atyptical antipsychotic. Apparently it has a stabilizing effect on disrupted NMDA receptors. I would much rather try CBD out than the generic antipsychotics that are often accompanied with harmful negative side effects..I have my appointment with the therapist later this morning and would like to convince her to let me try this out.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cannabidiol

What do you guys think?