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Are opiates bringing our world to it's knees?

This thread is incredibly insightful, and I have not much to add to it. I don't enjoy opiates to what 'addicts' (used loosely) would. I take it to go to sleep and not much else, but I do notice less depression in the day after I took it.

Its clear that drug prohibition is going nowhere. I hope the cartels eat the border patrol alive, and if anyone's family is there, don't think about losing a job, think about them losing their head when they shove it in a bucket so that a fucking rat eats them alive over a period of weeks. It seems that drastic actions like that are what will put politician's dumb ass policies to rest (DIE), if something as raw and dreadful were to happen that hurts the country as a whole emotionally. The act itself may not be good, but lets hope we don't know the guy/girl it will happen to, and politicians might think that maybe doing the same thing over and over won't change the results.
 
taken from a tripers guide website and one of my fav pargraphs i will ever read.

Why use entheogens?

For the same reason there is Alchemy. The same reason we have gods. They raise us above our attachments and remove our emotional bounds to show us a different point of view. They teach of higher worlds, and give us a glimpse of our own from a higher point of view. They cause us to understand our motivations and to circumscribe our desires. They motivate us to create holy (great) monuments, inspire teachings of greatness, and have led to our present development. The question is not why entheogens, but why refuse?


:):)
 
evilthree said:
Many prohibitionists fail to note how opiates have been used since the dawn of civilization, yet none of these previous societies have collapsed due to opiate abuse and addiction. There are still cultures in the world which use opiates on a regular basis, for everything from pain to depression. It bothers me that all this anti-drug bullshit stems from racial hysterias in the early 1900's, but yet people can't take the blinders off and see the root of the problem or how these policies came about. It seems society takes correlation and associates it with causation, and instead of basing their decisions and opinions on fact and logic, they base it on emotion. You hear a news story about some suburban kid who ODed on a bag of heroin mixed with fentanyl, and the story leads you to believe the heroin itself is the cause of the problem. The appeal to emotion is a powerful tool the prohibitionists use. If you look at any of the "heroin in the suburbs" type news stories, they focus very heavily on the people involved, while never really discussing any actual facts or statistics. It isn't the black market to blame, or a bad cut, or the inconsistency of street drugs, it's the drug itself. People can't process the impact the black market has, or the ramifications of prohibition; they are too caught up in the societal mindset to actually sit down and realize the true roots of the problems. The whole herd mentality of society helps to hinder progress quite a bit as well. If you say you support heroin legalization, you are labeled as crazy or some kinda nutjob, even if you explain your position in a logical manner.


I'll return to this topic, I have much to say about this all
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what a well stated point. If our governments embraced our growing group of followers and catered to the legality portion of it and brought more awareness rather than fear things would be different. like someone said above if things were sold in a store instead of on the street you would see a huge decline in stigma surrounding the drug, or any drug for that matter. Most of the problems people have with drug users is the level of crime that comes with it. The crime can be alleviated with legalization of sale in major establishments. I guarantee that people would change their minds on what is and is not acceptable. It is the government that instills fear in our hearts, if the government were on our side things would be far different.
 
mymindisgoo said:
relatively harmless? what fantasy world do you live in? jesus christ.
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I agree with the previous poster that opiates are relatively harmless if taken at a moderate level. Far less organ damage than stimulants (cocaine, ecstasy, etc.) if any... no correlation with a major disease (e.g. cigarettes and lung cancer, alcohol and liver cirrhosis.)
 
candycandy said:
I agree with the previous poster that opiates are relatively harmless if taken at a moderate level. Far less organ damage than stimulants (cocaine, ecstasy, etc.) if any... no correlation with a major disease (e.g. cigarettes and lung cancer, alcohol and liver cirrhosis.)
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If you aren't predisposed to organ problems then this is a true statement I feel like mosy people who make comments like "they're so dangerous" are people who dont even do them. It makes me laugh how ignorant some people are
 
"Many prohibitionists fail to note how opiates have been used since the dawn of civilization, yet none of these previous societies have collapsed due to opiate abuse and addiction" quoted from evilthree

What about China during the opium wars, that country was completely brought to its knees due to a mass addiction to opium. In fact one can argue that the reason Britain was able to control china for so long thus the reason for the quite horrific history of china over the past two-hundred years was due to OPIUM.
 
lizcass said:
If you aren't predisposed to organ problems then this is a true statement I feel like mosy people who make comments like "they're so dangerous" are people who dont even do them. It makes me laugh how ignorant some people are
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Well, opiates are dangerous because they're very addictive and they can easily be lethal at a higher dose. However, as far as what they do to our bodies, most other drugs are far worse.
 
Opiates are actually very very safe, in terms of lacking harmful effects on the brain and organs. They just don't fuck with your organs the way other narcotics do.

The only way they are dangerous is in high doses, and this is dangerous because of respiratory depression, NOT due to the toxicity of the chemical itself.
 
I feel, personally, that the absolute best approach to opiates societally is to make them available to any adult that wants them, utilizing harm reduction procedures to the greatest extent possible (yeah, easier said than done.)

There are a fair number of successful opiate users, even habitual users/addicts in the world, and on the board here. You (original poster) seem to be included in that group, at least to the extent that what you've said of your background betrays. If we're not brought to our knees by it, then why should whole societies be any more than by any other individual social problem? If anything is a problem of that magnitude here, it's the lack of personal freedom that most governments of the world afford to their citizens.
 
lizcass said:
That's my question. I want the honest opinion of other opiate users. I am a multicultural person and i have lived in well over 12 countries growing up and now into my adulthood. I am currently in Washington D.C, and honestly to some degree I believe opiate addiction is bringing (forgive me for being politically incorrect) upper and middle class kids, teens, adults what have you into crime and criminal behavior one because there is an insatiable need for it and two because once the addictive side of you has taken over, you'll sell your own children for the shit. So what do we do? I'm originally from Germany, which you all know is close to Amsterdam and there they administer shots of heroin to users everyday in clinics once a day, to keep them out of trouble and to diminish disease and havoc and mayhem I see in the united states. Drugs don't really tear families and people apart in Europe as I've seen here and various other places. Is it possibly the acceptance that comes with it or what? I was just wondering
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In South Florida, there is extremely loose regulation at pain clinics, and based on my observations, this is a problem that has affected areas as far north as Virginia, and as far west as Texas. Where drug dealers used to run cocaine from Miami to New York (and I imagine they still do), it is now apparently more profitable to run painkillers north, where they can be sold to people in all walks of life who would never make the switch from casual pot smoking to heroin or crack.

Couple that with doctors nationwide whose attitude is one of writing prescriptions rather than providing real therapy to people with injuries, and you've got an epidemic.

I am, shall we say, not far removed from a nearby rehab, and where in the past they may have catered to a specific demographic (lower to middle class white kids whose parents have them heavily insured), they are now getting rich kids whose parents pay in cash, patients who own multi-million dollar businesses, yachts, jets, etc.

Perhaps this shift is owed to the American economy, businesses failing, layoffs, etc.... this is not a Betty Ford type rehab we are talking about. It's nice, but it's not Dr. Drew nice. But I am also certain that the ease of acquisition for these powerful opiates is a contributing factor.

Debilitating opiate addiction is not just for the lower classes anymore... unfortunately I believe this will not serve to bring more education or harm reduction - just fatter pockets for pharmaceutical companies, and a smaller, more permanent American overcaste.
 
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^^
I disagree most doctors are becoming less willing to write narcotic scripts that IMO is why heroin is making such a large comeback. The thing about rehab is to me indicative of the economy there are less people with jobs means less people with insurance means less people can afford private rehabs. State rehabs that once catered to convicts and the very poor are now filled with middle class kids who otherwise would have gone to private rehabs.
 
It brought alot of people of my generation to their knees but most people I know are not opiate junkies. I do think opiates have become mainstream and their use has risen.
 
This whole stigma against opiates really pisses me off. If you think about, addiction aside, opiates are truly a chemical miracles. Here is a chemical group that not only is the only surefire way of controlling pain, but in addition you get anti-depression, anti-anxiety, euphoria, and motivation. I mean, is there any better recipe for happiness and well-being.

I suffer from depression, anxiety, nervous tics, lack of energy/motivation, social anxiety. When I take opiates (and I'm not even dependent) I can truly feel alive, at-ease, content: I'm happy, calm, no tics, motivated to do even menial shit, and highly sociable.

And let's not forget, all of this, and virtually NO destruction to the body. This is obvious when after the high is over, you feel no aches in your brain or organs so long as you don't overdose. Sure you can die if you take too much, but this is due to respiratory depression, not a toxicity specific to the opiate chemical structure.
 
I honestly think that opiate use has already peaked, and will soon begin to decline if it hasn't already.

The real battle is for the large amount of people in "recovery". I knew about 20 hardcore opiate addicts, and pretty much all of them are clean now. I pretty much had nobody left to get high with, so I stopped.

This is why I am against maintanance drugs for periods longer than a year. All of the people I know that are clean now are not on any subs or methadone. And its not like they weren't serious junkies. Most of them had ripped off all of their friends, got kicked out of their houses, and were living at the train station or in the park. Then went from the streets, to rehab or jail, then some back home or in half-way houses.

Don't get me wrong, I had my fair share of friends die from opiates, but the majority of them are doing good now. I think if they were on methadone or suboxone, that they would still be plugged into the opiate using community, and it would be easy for them to relapse.
 
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arthunter888 said:
This whole stigma against opiates really pisses me off. If you think about, addiction aside, opiates are truly a chemical miracles. Here is a chemical group that not only is the only surefire way of controlling pain, but in addition you get anti-depression, anti-anxiety, euphoria, and motivation. I mean, is there any better recipe for happiness and well-being.

I suffer from depression, anxiety, nervous tics, lack of energy/motivation, social anxiety. When I take opiates (and I'm not even dependent) I can truly feel alive, at-ease, content: I'm happy, calm, no tics, motivated to do even menial shit, and highly sociable.

And let's not forget, all of this, and virtually NO destruction to the body. This is obvious when after the high is over, you feel no aches in your brain or organs so long as you don't overdose. Sure you can die if you take too much, but this is due to respiratory depression, not a toxicity specific to the opiate chemical structure.
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I completely agree with you. Opiates can be very useful tools for many situations.
 
Nib said:
Yes, the War On Drugs causes most of the problems related to drugs.
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Nope.

Pot, Ecstacy, Mushrooms, and perhaps a few other soft drugs this is the case. But shit like Meth or Crack will most likely ruin your life even if it is free and legal.
 
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