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Bupe Suboxone/Buprenorphine FAQ & Megathread v2; 2010

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well im back to 1mg today, and im doing great......i even went out and got a lot of exercise today, and went to a counselor, that my bupe doc wanted me to go to.....

i got all my gear today as well, curious if its gunna be worth it to bang some bupe....no micron filter tho....once is not a big deal......im just curious if ill get somewhat high....like more so than IN......
 
well im back to 1mg today, and im doing great......i even went out and got a lot of exercise today, and went to a counselor, that my bupe doc wanted me to go to.....

i got all my gear today as well, curious if its gunna be worth it to bang some bupe....no micron filter tho....once is not a big deal......im just curious if ill get somewhat high....like more so than IN......

Here's the thing to remember. Shooting bupe, and taking it other routes has no real difference other than onset and bioavailability.

If you are sniffing 1mg, thats about .5mg, whereas shooting 1mg would be 1mg. So you would only have to shoot half a mg, to feel the same as sniffing 1mg.

If you were trying to catch a buzz off it you'd need to shoot even less than .5mg, otherwise you'll feel the same you always do on suboxone.
 
^ lol ya....i dont even no why i asked.....i knew this

i think i was just looking for an excuse to use a needle....haha
 
^ lol ya....i dont even no why i asked.....i knew this

i think i was just looking for an excuse to use a needle....haha

Some people like shooting up with just water. You can get addicted to a process, such as drawing up, tying off, shooting. Its better to be addicted to needles than whats in them
 
. Its better to be addicted to needles than whats in them

this is true, but alot of unsafe IV use can be very detrimental to your veins.....

i think i might just do a nice fat shot of dope on friday after my doc appt......
 
Here's the thing to remember. Shooting bupe, and taking it other routes has no real difference other than onset and bioavailability.

I think the effects are a lot different to be honest.

this is true, but alot of unsafe IV use can be very detrimental to your veins.....

i think i might just do a nice fat shot of dope on friday after my doc appt......

Why not just smoke weed instead?

i got all my gear today as well, curious if its gunna be worth it to bang some bupe....no micron filter tho....once is not a big deal......im just curious if ill get somewhat high....like more so than IN......

You might, but some people would say no. Some people really like it, and others really don't like it (after having tried it).

Some people would really prefer oral methadone over IV buprenorphine.
 
^ i smoke weed every day......but this might end up being the case......

im just fiending for a high the past two days or so.... i should probably keep my clean streak going....thats for the support.....

how many unit of water for 0.5mg bupe? Capt?
 
^ i smoke weed every day......but this might end up being the case......

im just fiending for a high the past two days or so.... i should probably keep my clean streak going....thats for the support.....

how many unit of water for 0.5mg bupe? Capt?

I dilute mine a lot so that I would use 2 millitres but that is unnecessary.

I would use probably 30 to 50 units. If you are just using cotton you will recover 25 to 40 units. You can recover more than that, but you really don't need to.

Just to be fair though, I think IVing heroin could be safer than IV suboxone without a micron filter. Suboxone 8mg tablets are only 2% active ingredient, and powder heroin (do you get powder or black tar heroin?) is likely to be more potent, unless it's completely inactive.
 
So, where am I at? I jumped off at 1mg Suboxone six days ago for those who haven't read my earlier posts.

Got out the house yesterday to have dinner with my mum and sister which was really good. I think I'm going stir-fucking-crazy sitting in my room all day so will try to get out the house at least once a day.

I puked again this morning but the anxiety is a little better. Probably fair to say that it has taken me about six days to reach the worst of it (it better not get any worse). Even conservatively, I should be very close to the WD peaking so should hopefully start to improve tomorrow or Saturday.

I've been absolutely chewing through the valium (60mg / day) which hasn't helped but I was upfront with my doc and he was cool with it (best doc ever). He said to keep taking what I think I need for the next week or so and then we'll look at a pretty quick taper off the benzos. I literally have unlimited quantities of valium for the next week but understand the more I take now the worse it will be later.

One quick q: anything good for nausea relief other than weed? Weed helps but the gut wrenching and dry-retching still comes through occasionally.

Peace <3
 
So, where am I at? I jumped off at 1mg Suboxone six days ago for those who haven't read my earlier posts.

Got out the house yesterday to have dinner with my mum and sister which was really good. I think I'm going stir-fucking-crazy sitting in my room all day so will try to get out the house at least once a day.

I puked again this morning but the anxiety is a little better. Probably fair to say that it has taken me about six days to reach the worst of it (it better not get any worse). Even conservatively, I should be very close to the WD peaking so should hopefully start to improve tomorrow or Saturday.

I've been absolutely chewing through the valium (60mg / day) which hasn't helped but I was upfront with my doc and he was cool with it (best doc ever). He said to keep taking what I think I need for the next week or so and then we'll look at a pretty quick taper off the benzos. I literally have unlimited quantities of valium for the next week but understand the more I take now the worse it will be later.

One quick q: anything good for nausea relief other than weed? Weed helps but the gut wrenching and dry-retching still comes through occasionally.

Peace <3

Yeah I would definitely be careful to taper off of the diazepam too so it doesn't complicate the withdrawal.

Weed is probably the best anti-nausea thing you can acquire. There are other prescription drugs like ondansetron too.
 
^ Cyclizine - now OTC will help out with nausea, and its a depressant so might help to mask the withdrawal symptoms a little bit better than valium alone.
 
^ Cyclizine - now OTC will help out with nausea, and its a depressant so might help to mask the withdrawal symptoms a little bit better than valium alone.

I don't personally find a serious anti-emetic quality from any antihistamine I have tried (hydroxyzine, doxylamine, diphenhydramine, promethazine), but I haven't tried cyclizine.

It's definitely worth a shot, and will potentiate diazepam so that you can stash some away for later.
 
I got the film strips today. Just plugged a 2mg (usually only do 1-1.5mg per dose, 2x daily), so its a bit more buprenorphine than I'm used to.

Cutting up the film is harder than I had anticipated. It is really very small. I made eight pieces of 1mgs, after doing the 2mg, and they are moderately equal. I think it is better than breaking apart pills. Well it's definitely easier than breaking apart RB's old Suboxone orange tablets, but only a little bit easier than breaking up Teva's generic Subutex 8mg tablets.

I used a little nail clipper scissor set to get the job done.

As far as effects, I would say it feels 'dopier' but not in a good way. It is like comparing the subjective highs of Oxycontin to H; Suboxone would be H, Subutex - Oxycontin. This could be placebo. Also, I did notice that 5-10 minutes after I plugged it, I started to yawn and I haven't had that effect since I went off the Suboxone in the first place.

We'll see. My doctors "says" I can switch back after a month, but lets see if he keeps his promise.

All in all: I'd rate the old Subutex tables - 8, and these new Suboxone films 6.
 
I don't personally find a serious anti-emetic quality from any antihistamine I have tried (hydroxyzine, doxylamine, diphenhydramine, promethazine), but I haven't tried cyclizine.

It's definitely worth a shot, and will potentiate diazepam so that you can stash some away for later.

Antihistamines will sedate me but fuck do they make me feel like a zombie. The doc recommended Phenergan (not sure what chemical name it is) and it works but gives the most horrible semi-lucid dreams and makes me feel like I've drunk 2 bottles of vodka the night before when I wake up.

Brings me to another point: I'm usually a voracious reader but simply haven't been able to turn a page since kicking the suboxone. Is there anything I can do to get my head in a place where it's not bugging so I can read? If I could pass the time by reading, it would go much quick.

Thanks <3
 
Antihistamines will sedate me but fuck do they make me feel like a zombie. The doc recommended Phenergan (not sure what chemical name it is) and it works but gives the most horrible semi-lucid dreams and makes me feel like I've drunk 2 bottles of vodka the night before when I wake up.

Brings me to another point: I'm usually a voracious reader but simply haven't been able to turn a page since kicking the suboxone. Is there anything I can do to get my head in a place where it's not bugging so I can read? If I could pass the time by reading, it would go much quick.

Thanks <3

Phenergan is promethazine.

Amphetamines assist with reading nicely as long as the akathisia doesn't overpower the pleasant stimulation.
 
Alrighty, here goes. Try to keep up, because I'm going to do this fast.

First, Naloxone vs Bupe -
The problem is that you are thinking that naloxone reverses the effects of opiods, when really you need to know that naloxone is actually an opiod. Think of your opiod receptors as being able to be in 1 of 3 positions. Either ON (agonist), Neutral (no drugs), or OFF (antagonist). Buprenorphine is technically a partial agonist, but for purposes of this, assume it' an agonist, and naloxone is an antagonist.

All opiods want to bind to your receptors, but only 1 can bind at a time. To determine which one gets to stay binded depends on a drugs affinity. Bupe has a stronger affinity than naloxone, so bupe will bind, putting your receptors in an ON position. The naloxone cannot bind. So while they may be working against each other, they are both opiods, and the stronger affinity always wins. You cannot use naloxone to treat a buprenorphine overdose. However, naloxone can be used to treat a heroin overdose because it's stronger than heroin, so it will kick heroin off the receptor and switch it to the OFF position (which will allow your CNS to function again temporarily)

Second - Why naloxone is pointless
Pretty much, naloxone is only in suboxone for show. There is no good reason for it. People like to say stupid rumors how you cant shoot up because of the naloxone, or whatever - WRONG.

As stated before, bupe will not let naloxone bind, and it has a short elimination half life, and will just go away pretty quickly. It doesn't matter how you take it, sublingually or inject it, the naloxone will NEVER be able to bind. People would say that it's not absorbed when taken normally, but when you shoot it you'll get sick - WRONG.

Pretty much, it's in there for show, and does NOTHING!

Why you get precipitated withdrawals.'
This one is slightly more tricky, because it depends on the person, their tolerance, amount they take of bupe vs other drug.

I'll try to make this simple.
  • In order for your body to not be sick, lets say you need 100 Dope Units (DU).
  • Your body has 10 opiod receptors, which can each hold 1 opiod (remember, stronger affinity wins).
  • You take 10 receptors worth of heroin, which has a DU of 10. So 10 x 10 = 100 DU.
  • You will NOT be sick, because your body has the 100 DU you need.
  • Now lets say on top of that you take 10 receptors worth of bupe. (Bupe has a stonger affinity than heroin, so it will kick heroin off) but bupe only has a DU of 5. So 10 x 5 = 50.
  • Your body now has 50 DU, not 100. This will make you sick.
Pretty much, since bupe has more affinty, but less DU, you'll get sick. However, if you're already sick and are at 0, then taking 50 of bupe will make you less sick. Eventually your body will get used to not being sick with 50 DU, and you'll be fine. (Obviously theres more based upon dose, etc, etc, but I think the general idea should suffice?)

If other opiates were weaker than heroin with stronger affinity the same thing could happen.

Hopefully that made some sense.

Thankyou very much jamtasticx that was most definatley very helpfull. So, if i am going to use herion while i am on the suboxone, i am under the assumption that i need to wait after i have had my suboxone dose untill i start to withdraw, then use heroin, and then wait untill i go into withdrawal again before having my next dose of suboxone, is this correct?

After reading what you said i would think that;

1. by waiting untill i go into withdrawal the bupe is no longer on the receptors

2. Using at that point, the herion will work as it has a lesser affinity, but the bupe, with a stronger affinity is gone.

3. If i have the bupe to soon after using the herion it will rip the heroin off the receptors and the du (dope units) of bupe is less therefore i will get sick.

4. I then wait for withdrawal to start again before dosing again on the suboxone.

I guess i need to ask why naloxone is in suboxone, it obviously has no functional purpose so why do you think they put it in there, maybe to fuel this rumour that it will nullify the effects of using? Well thats what my doctor said to me anyway.

So, if i inject my suboxone it will have no ill effects and i will get a rush from it
?

Please answer these questions for me and once again, thanks for youe help. :)
 
Thankyou very much jamtasticx that was most definatley very helpfull. So, if i am going to use herion while i am on the suboxone, i am under the assumption that i need to wait after i have had my suboxone dose untill i start to withdraw, then use heroin, and then wait untill i go into withdrawal again before having my next dose of suboxone, is this correct?

Using Suboxone, and then heroin, is possible. It's just that the amount of Suboxone some people take, is enough to reduce the effects of heroin.

If you use a small amount of Suboxone, you should be able to use full agonists on top of it. However, if you're on a large amount of Suboxone, you probably want to wait a while until the Suboxone is no longer effecting you.

After reading what you said i would think that;

1. by waiting untill i go into withdrawal the bupe is no longer on the receptors

2. Using at that point, the herion will work as it has a lesser affinity, but the bupe, with a stronger affinity is gone.

3. If i have the bupe to soon after using the herion it will rip the heroin off the receptors and the du (dope units) of bupe is less therefore i will get sick.

4. I then wait for withdrawal to start again before dosing again on the suboxone.

I guess i need to ask why naloxone is in suboxone, it obviously has no functional purpose so why do you think they put it in there, maybe to fuel this rumour that it will nullify the effects of using? Well thats what my doctor said to me anyway.

So, if i inject my suboxone it will have no ill effects and i will get a rush from it
?

Please answer these questions for me and once again, thanks for youe help. :)

It's just to continue that rumor, so that Suboxone is class III and Subutex is class II. Buprenorphine used to be a class V medication before Suboxone came out.

If you inject Suboxone you won't get any ill effects, unless you have an injection complication, from not using sterile technique or from missing your shot.

You might get a "rush" out of it but it's definitely not the same as IV heroin. It's hard to explain, I've tried putting it into words previously.
 
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