Questions about LSD and how certain executions work

[lightlord99]

Bad trips won't and HAVEN'T prevented me from enjoying LSD. They're experiences I'm glad I've had. LSD has also blessed me with some of the most profoundly beautiful, comfortable experiences of my life.

 

[ganja god]

In fact, I dont even believe they exist.

thats a pretty dangerous thing to think about psychedelics. Witht that mentality, your just asking to take it for granted eventually and see what horror you can induce in yourself without the proper respect for it.

 

[any major dude]

So it binds to the same places as serotonin just not every receptor. What I mean is, LSD binds to all same receptors as serotonin, however serotonin has additional sites in binds to

no, LSD binds to some 5HT receptor subtypes, at least one dopaminergic site ( i was thinking i had read some others, but am too lazy to look it up at the moment), Sigma, a couple of adrenergic sites, and some histaminergic as well, IIRC. I'm sure i'm leaving some out as well...

Taking LSD is not like having a "synthetic supply" of serotonin. It does (to oversimplify things a bit) alter the way a number of different receptors fire, hence the altered perception.

 

[lightitup]

In my opinion MDMA is just a great time. You get fucked up, you roll balls or whatever, and have a great time. You only have the good and awesome audial, visual, mindfuck stuff.

LSD can go up or down so dramatically. It is so safe (physically) that you can explore the rabbit hole as deep as your mind can stand. Dysphoria and Euphoria are both extremely present when you get into high doses, but a lot of people love that. I know I do, I can't imagine a completely "euphoric/happy" trip. My trips always have a very broad range of emotion. The audial and visual stuff in 100 times as intense in my opinion, but I never get THAT much crazy stuff from MDxx.

MDMA shows you only the light in my opinion. LSD shows you the light AND the dark, both of which need to be seen. :D

edit added: a bad trip isn't just being sucked into a hole of insanity. My bad trips are my best trips. Pure euphoria on LSD usually doesn't point to LSD in my opinion...

 

[psood0nym]

So it binds to the same places as serotonin just not every receptor. What I mean is, LSD binds to all same receptors as serotonin, however serotonin has additional sites in binds to

This is what any major dude was saying he was too lazy to get: receptor affinities for LSD. The low bars are the one's it has a high affinity for, and bars above the horizontal line mean that receptor is unlikely to be affected substantially and typical recreational doses of LSD (notice all the serotonin receptor subtypes it has little or insubstantial affinity for):

What other psychedelics have you used and do you have the same MDMA like subjective reaction? It sounds like you have little or no experience with psychedelics outside of LSD. The fact that it feels so good for you most likely owes to some chance fortunate distribution of receptors that support euphoria in your brain that LSD's receptor binding profile just happens to map onto. So, congrats, you're lucky (if euphoria is what you're after), but it isn't that way for everyone (maybe for them it's 2C-E) -- and even though it might feel good to tell yourself others don't get the same reaction as you because they are weak of mind and therefore you are strong, your experience with psychedelics seems far too limited to make those kinds of conclusions. I'm not sure you can ever make those kinds of conclusions based on reactions to psychedelics; having a great time consistently with a wide variety of challenging drugs across time and varied circumstances is more indicative of this, but still far from guaranteeing a person's resistance to all or even most of the vast variety of psychologically challenging phenomena we are likely to encounter in life; there is no single litmus test for a strong mind.

In fact, this kind of conveniently ego-boosting single litmus test simplification is extremely common, especially among young male psychedelic novices with a short string of good trips behind them. They assume they must have some mental power they exert over the psychedelic to account for their reaction instead of assuming far more likely chance related factors. This interpretation allows them to take personal responsibility for their joy (which makes them feel even better!). Don't take that as an insult, it's simply an affirmation of your normalcy; we all delude ourselves in various ways to feel special (strong self delusion, within reason, is actually considered psychologically healthy). I'm not saying that you're definitely not especially strong of mind, just that a few LSD experiences do not make for a reliable metric of such things, and that the conclusions you've reached are well within a few standard deviations of the average young psychedelic explorer's.

 

[VerbalTruist]

DO NOT WANT!!!!!!

Lol Ty for that info luckily that ain't ever gonna happen

It's an attitude like that that is worrying. You might have a bad trip. LSD has provoked seriously life changing experiences and thoughts within me. Your attitude of, "Nothing bad will ever happen to me. I am impervious." It's bullshit kiddo.

You need to understand that with LSD there is a potential for a good, bad or neutral trip. The neutral/bad trip might give you the courage to say something that you've never said to another person before or admit shame, but it will still be a rough spot and you're gonna feel like shit.

If you have a true train wreck I can't even begin to describe to you how rough it will be, but you need to know that it could seriously run you into the ground. I've never had a horrible trip, but the hard ones were REALLY fucking hard to deal with. Painful and although I came out of it alright there are some people who don't.

LSD isn't a replacement for MDMA.

LSD exerts a selective inhibitory effect on the raphe system in your brain. It is an indirect serotonin antagonist. There are other postsynaptic mechanisms as well that take place on glutamate and serotonin. It's damn complicated..

MDMA induces serotonin release in a major way.

Both are complicated and definitely not the same in their action.

 

[marienbad]

Fascinating thread. Yeah, I don't think it's reasonable to think that just because you haven't had a bad trip so far, you never will. I've done acid 6 or so times, mushrooms 4, and never had a truly bad trip with either. But I know it's always possible; there are times while tripping when I'll get negative or paranoid thoughts that if dwelled upon could seriously fuck everything up.

In terms of euphoria, I do agree with the OP to a certain extent. There's a kind of euphoria with acid, but I wouldn't compare it to MDMA really, or any other drug. It's pretty unique... sort of a very dazed happy feeling, but I always feel like at the same time I'm about to fall asleep or pass out from how overwhelming everything is - in a good way. (Paradoxically, acid tends to make me feel really speedy one minute then very sleepy the next). Acid euphoria is very unpredictable and not usually like the constant wave of bliss from MDMA or a strong opiate. It's much more difficult to describe.

 

[windowpaine]

You will have a bad trip someday. I promise. And it'll be worse than you'd ever imagine. It's not "oh I don't like this"; it's more like (borrowing an album title) the terror of cosmic loneliness w/ a side of extreme paranoia that feels like your brain is being raped (literally: I can't explain it), your friends are plotting against you and you will also worry you will never feel sane again.

Respect the drug. It's not a toy. We all find that out with experience.

He speaks the truth. I've tripped hundreds of times and only had one that I consider a bad trip (although there were several that had less than perfect sections). During mine, friends had to literally drag me out from under the stairs where I was cowering. It was not pleasant.

 

[windowpaine]

You see, for me, I have never had a "bad trip" on psychadelics. In fact, I dont even believe they exist.

Yes, young grashopper, but *they* believe in you.

Don't think for a second that we're saying you shouldn't take acid. Just that it is arrogant and naive to believe you are immune.

I think the primary difference is that there is no self reflection in mdma. Everybody loves everybody and we're all happy. LSD will show you the ugly and venal sometimes. Or as another poster put it MDMA shows you the light. LSD shows you the light and the dark.

I'm not sure what my point is, but take what you will.

 

[~_Hiss_~]

I just feel so much pity for people that cant control their trips due to weak mindedness or anxiety

You think you're so badass and can't have a bad trip? Well you aren't taking enough. You are taking threshold doses because its weak acid (no offense, its the 21st century and is fairly common). Go visit the "low dose lsd appreciation thread" because that's all the effects you are describing.

anyone can have a bad trip if the dose is high enough.

 

[Alldaykk]

This is what any major dude was saying he was too lazy to get: receptor affinities for LSD. The low bars are the one's it has a high affinity for, and bars above the horizontal line mean that receptor is unlikely to be affected substantially and typical recreational doses of LSD (notice all the serotonin receptor subtypes it has little or insubstantial affinity for):

What other psychedelics have you used and do you have the same MDMA like subjective reaction? It sounds like you have little or no experience with psychedelics outside of LSD. The fact that it feels so good for you most likely owes to some chance fortunate distribution of receptors that support euphoria in your brain that LSD's receptor binding profile just happens to map onto. So, congrats, you're lucky (if euphoria is what you're after), but it isn't that way for everyone (maybe for them it's 2C-E) -- and even though it might feel good to tell yourself others don't get the same reaction as you because they are weak of mind and therefore you are strong, your experience with psychedelics seems far too limited to make those kinds of conclusions. I'm not sure you can ever make those kinds of conclusions based on reactions to psychedelics; having a great time consistently with a wide variety of challenging drugs across time and varied circumstances is more indicative of this, but still far from guaranteeing a person's resistance to all or even most of the vast variety of psychologically challenging phenomena we are likely to encounter in life; there is no single litmus test for a strong mind.

In fact, this kind of conveniently ego-boosting single litmus test simplification is extremely common, especially among young male psychedelic novices with a short string of good trips behind them. They assume they must have some mental power they exert over the psychedelic to account for their reaction instead of assuming far more likely chance related factors. This interpretation allows them to take personal responsibility for their joy (which makes them feel even better!). Don't take that as an insult, it's simply an affirmation of your normalcy; we all delude ourselves in various ways to feel special (strong self delusion, within reason, is actually considered psychologically healthy). I'm not saying that you're definitely not especially strong of mind, just that a few LSD experiences do not make for a reliable metric of such things, and that the conclusions you've reached are well within a few standard deviations of the average young psychedelic explorer's.

Wow!!!!! First of all, thank you to EVERYONE
who continues to post in this thread. I have read every single post and love to hear everyones thoughts. I do believe u r correct above. I see now what u r all saying, I know it is a possibility to have a bad trip, and I also realize this chance is multiplied depending on the dosage used. I just personally would never go to some heroic dosing just so I could say I did, when I already experience so amny effects and am truly "tripping" from one to two blotters at a time.

As far as my experience with psychadelics, I would call myself a amauteur. Definaty not a novice as I have tried several things, and on multiple occassions. But not an expert who has trie everything under the sun and in different times with greatly varying dosages.

I believe that could potentially be it. Just how my brain works by bindin with the serogenic feeling receptors I possess. I have Shroom tripped a few times, LSD tripped. Salvia tripped about 15 times including twice on 60x (closest I'd ever have to "bad" trip, although I would never refer to it as that only a difficult trip an only because unique to salvia in nature it is a COMPLETE dissacociative and u never even remember u r on anything let alone who you are or what existence even is.)

but even on a Jedi flip I just feel so warm with surges of euphoria constantly flowing, eyes bigger than a puppy dog and no matter if I open my eyes or close my eyes I'm seeing the biggest best most pure physically entertaining spectacle of light shows and visualizers ever fathomable. Just laying there in pure bliss, unwanting to move and just soak it in.

What I have learne is there is enough of u that hve had bad/difficult trips to where I will not be ignorant and claim they don't exist. However I will tread happily and without worry forward with my LSD ventures expecting the best, prepared for the worst. And I'll let u guys know of my next experience on this thread here in a weeks time or less!

Keep posting ALL ur thoughts I love to read them!

 

[windowpaine]

^^^^This is a much healthier attitude.


I sincerely hope you're right and that you never do have a bad trip. If you do, it's incredibly likely that you'll come through with nothing but bad memories at worst. Even a bad trip can be useful if you learn something. The tail end of mine - once I'd managed to calm down - was one of the most entheogenic experiences of my life.

 

[Ismene]

That's an unfair comparison. I never said to stop taking LSD. What I'm trying to convey is that nobody is invincible, even you. Yes, you reading this: you are not indestructible. Thinking otherwise is a fallacy.

It's not a case of thinking you're invincible. It's a case of knowing who you are.

It's like a rapist telling me "One day you might see a pretty woman and not be able to resist raping her". No, I won't rape anyone because I know I'm not a rapist. (not calling you a rapist btw raw!) In the same way I won't have a bad trip because I can handle my emotions. And that doesn't mean you won't feel sorrow or cry on a trip - of course you will. That's the magic of tripping. But just because you cry doesn't mean it's some hellish bad trip.

 

[AlphaMethylPhenyl]

Thanks for all the input once again I enjoy reading it. I have to say tho the reason I call it possibly weak minded is because Its very annoying to be tripping with someone and they just go in a whiny voice "oh I don't like this." "why not?" "it just feels weird" or "idk, I just don't". It's like u can always control it with willpower I know from experience coming up in that clinic with the thugs blazin blunts I was trippin balls I'm like what if they find out oh know it's so weird, what will they do when they fin out this guy is an acid tripper. And I was just like nah fick that I rebuke those thoughts and just focused on having fun. And yes shit was moving so chaotically and constantly I could barely focus at all, but I held my composure. It feels like a wrestling match with ur brain. In bad setting ur brain automatically starts tripping like this will not end well, and it is ur job as a tripper that wants to have a good time to wrestle that thought out and say no that's not how it is it will end well and it works out. Just how I see it and I have 100% success rate with it.

Like have u guys seen mudboy from edc? That shits inexcusable. Rolling around in mud kissing mud and picking it up in public? That is a weak minded fool, period. Sure he may have dosed too high, but that's still his personal mistake and a consequence of a weak mind to begin with. Thinking you can handle more than you can.

What exactly is dysphoria like? I've never had that.

No offense, but you sound ignorant and childish when you apparently insult people for their bad trips. Bad trips hit like a freight train, even worse. If you ever get one, and I suspect that you will, it will rock you son.
I agree that its the tripper's responsibility to deal with the situation to the best of their ability, but shit happens. Bad trips dont happen because someone is "weak", but usually because they haven't gotten in touch with themselves beforehand to accurately guage their mental strength. The euphoria of their last trip overrides the memory that they had to work for that euphoria. And yes, you've had dysphoria so dont play the overly optimistic wise guy and come down to a healthy level.