2C-I + MDMA, Potentiation and Dosage Recommendations?

[thelearner]

This combo is unsafe. People who have combined inhibition of maob with 2c-series psychedelics report profound but unpredictable potentiation. Some found apparent 4x potentiation of the physiological side-effects, coupled with roughly no potentiation of desirable effects.

Furthermore, the degree of potentiation is idiosyncratic and unpredictable. For any combination with a stimulant or entactogen involved, you need to slowly titrate upward, to see how you respond personally.

I wrote an FAQ on this; it's in the wiki section.

ebola

Noted, thanks. I think this is territory that I may explore in VERY small increments (1-2mg increases) from home over time.

 

[DwayneHoover]

Yea, I would stay far away from selegeline if youre doing phenethylamines. As previous noted, potentially very risky.

I know its not your intent here, but dont knock methylone till youve tried it. Some feel its "shitty" compared to MDMA, but not me... first of all, sex is easier on it.... MDMA totally turns off my sex drive and ability to perform and/or climax. Probably the lower level of serotionin you get from methylone... serotonin can really wither a sex drive... M1 gives you enough to be entactogenic, but not too much for certain purposes. And I don't find that sharp of of differentiation between the "euphoria" phase and the residual stimulation... not some big sharp dropoff that some get, for me its more gradual. And I do not mind the residual stimulation... it feels OK to me... I like stimulants and it's not really "baq" in any way to me. Perhaps it has to do with the frequent nitrous I tend to do while on it, but its not unpleasant at least for me. Maybe its because limit dose to 1 175-190mg hit with zero redose. Maybe its all the supplements I take every morning... tyrosine, rhodiola, ginseng, multi and mega antioxidants like ALA, COQ10, lycopene, carotenoid complex, multi-ester E complex, calcium ascorbate (erster-c), and many more, with extra an hour or two before dosing.

Dont get me wrong, MDMA is excellent, but seems harsher on my system than menthylone. And Methylone's euphoric peak is unique from MDMA's... feels more "delicate" but still very satisfying to me, as is the stimulant comeup common to both, it seems easier on the system and more malleable, less of a sledgehammer.

BUT, of course, many people report vastly different effects profiles and greatly divergent likes and dislikes, but I wouldnt avoid trying it forever on the basis of several peoples' remarks that it is 'just a fake imitation for MDMA'..... its got alot more going for it than that. Just look into the several Methylone threads here, and youll find quite a few people who have LOTS of experience with MANY compounds, including plenty of MDMA, and there are a good number who say they actually prefer the M1 for a variety of reasons.

Try it yourself and make your own judgments, but don't pre-judge it on the basis of a few dismissive put-downs youve only read (some of which seem a bit elitist or something IME). You might find it is something you enjoy occasionally and that adds to the variety of available entactogenic experiences with its own unique flavor and effects profile.

 

[ebola?]

Noted, thanks. I think this is territory that I may explore in VERY small increments (1-2mg increases) from home over time.

Good thinking: please take care to begin with low, likely nigh inactive doses. Not only is the potentiation idiosyncratic, but the range of potentiation is large. One bluelighter experienced dangerously high pulse and blood-pressure (to the point of nearly informedly calling the hospital) with 2 mg / d-amphetamine + inhibition of maob. 2 MGs! That some potentiation. But for all we know, some people might respond even more severely.

 

[MagickalKat777]

Yea, I would stay far away from selegeline if youre doing phenethylamines. As previous noted, potentially very risky.

I know its not your intent here, but dont knock methylone till youve tried it. Some feel its "shitty" compared to MDMA, but not me... first of all, sex is easier on it.... MDMA totally turns off my sex drive and ability to perform and/or climax. Probably the lower level of serotionin you get from methylone... serotonin can really wither a sex drive... M1 gives you enough to be entactogenic, but not too much for certain purposes. And I don't find that sharp of of differentiation between the "euphoria" phase and the residual stimulation... not some big sharp dropoff that some get, for me its more gradual. And I do not mind the residual stimulation... it feels OK to me... I like stimulants and it's not really "baq" in any way to me. Perhaps it has to do with the frequent nitrous I tend to do while on it, but its not unpleasant at least for me. Maybe its because limit dose to 1 175-190mg hit with zero redose. Maybe its all the supplements I take every morning... tyrosine, rhodiola, ginseng, multi and mega antioxidants like ALA, COQ10, lycopene, carotenoid complex, multi-ester E complex, calcium ascorbate (erster-c), and many more, with extra an hour or two before dosing.

Dont get me wrong, MDMA is excellent, but seems harsher on my system than menthylone. And Methylone's euphoric peak is unique from MDMA's... feels more "delicate" but still very satisfying to me, as is the stimulant comeup common to both, it seems easier on the system and more malleable, less of a sledgehammer.

BUT, of course, many people report vastly different effects profiles and greatly divergent likes and dislikes, but I wouldnt avoid trying it forever on the basis of several peoples' remarks that it is 'just a fake imitation for MDMA'..... its got alot more going for it than that. Just look into the several Methylone threads here, and youll find quite a few people who have LOTS of experience with MANY compounds, including plenty of MDMA, and there are a good number who say they actually prefer the M1 for a variety of reasons.

Try it yourself and make your own judgments, but don't pre-judge it on the basis of a few dismissive put-downs youve only read (some of which seem a bit elitist or something IME). You might find it is something you enjoy occasionally and that adds to the variety of available entactogenic experiences with its own unique flavor and effects profile.

Methylone is all about finding the perfect dose and redose schedule... for me, any more than 175mg initial dose and its a completely different character (almost no serotonin release but lots of dopamine and NE release) although sex is always amazing on it.

I am leery to combo things with methylone though just because of how stimulated I get on the come up and come down of methylone by itself...

 

[thelearner]

Yea, I would stay far away from selegeline if youre doing phenethylamines. As previous noted, potentially very risky.

I know its not your intent here, but dont knock methylone till youve tried it. Some feel its "shitty" compared to MDMA, but not me... first of all, sex is easier on it.... MDMA totally turns off my sex drive and ability to perform and/or climax. Probably the lower level of serotionin you get from methylone... serotonin can really wither a sex drive... M1 gives you enough to be entactogenic, but not too much for certain purposes. And I don't find that sharp of of differentiation between the "euphoria" phase and the residual stimulation... not some big sharp dropoff that some get, for me its more gradual. And I do not mind the residual stimulation... it feels OK to me... I like stimulants and it's not really "baq" in any way to me. Perhaps it has to do with the frequent nitrous I tend to do while on it, but its not unpleasant at least for me. Maybe its because limit dose to 1 175-190mg hit with zero redose. Maybe its all the supplements I take every morning... tyrosine, rhodiola, ginseng, multi and mega antioxidants like ALA, COQ10, lycopene, carotenoid complex, multi-ester E complex, calcium ascorbate (erster-c), and many more, with extra an hour or two before dosing.

Dont get me wrong, MDMA is excellent, but seems harsher on my system than menthylone. And Methylone's euphoric peak is unique from MDMA's... feels more "delicate" but still very satisfying to me, as is the stimulant comeup common to both, it seems easier on the system and more malleable, less of a sledgehammer.

BUT, of course, many people report vastly different effects profiles and greatly divergent likes and dislikes, but I wouldnt avoid trying it forever on the basis of several peoples' remarks that it is 'just a fake imitation for MDMA'..... its got alot more going for it than that. Just look into the several Methylone threads here, and youll find quite a few people who have LOTS of experience with MANY compounds, including plenty of MDMA, and there are a good number who say they actually prefer the M1 for a variety of reasons.

Try it yourself and make your own judgments, but don't pre-judge it on the basis of a few dismissive put-downs youve only read (some of which seem a bit elitist or something IME). You might find it is something you enjoy occasionally and that adds to the variety of available entactogenic experiences with its own unique flavor and effects profile.

Fair enough. Maybe it's worth a shot. In particular, I'm interested in it with MDAI as I've heard this is a lovely combo to recreate a very MDMA like experience, but I'm sure it's lovely on its own, too.

I guess my perspective is that after my initial 3 months of MDMA experimentation with WAY excessive use (once every 10 days or so), I've cooled off quite a bit (been 6 weeks since my last use). My feeling is that if I'm gonna put potentially neurotoxic compounds in my system, which I'm only willing to do once per month at most after having seen enough evidence to convince me any more isn't safe, well, I'd rather it be one I KNOW I absolutely love, rather than "waste" a round on a compound that I might not love.

The other factor is I really do enjoy stimulants, and given that M1 acts more strongly on DA and NE than 5-HT, I'm inclined to think it has a higher abuse potential, especially for a guy like me who digs stims.

As for sex, alas, that ain't happening on either, at least for the time being. My girlfriend ain't into the rave / drug scene (though she is also understanding of my desire to experiment) and also lives across country. Since I tend not to roll around the girlfriend when she is in town since E's a social thing for me, the most I'll get in the way of female attention on either compound is some friendly touching, maybe a make-out at a rave if I'm completely off my ass and get accosted (which, hey, it happens, I'm fortunate to be a looker). So, sexual performance isn't a huge concern for me. Besides, a Cialis / Viagra script ain't that hard to come by if I just gotta get the ol' pecker wet.

I know it's been discussed at length, but what's your feeling on abuse potential? I keep seeing LOTS of people saying they go on horrifying benders on the shit? Ever had compulsive need to redose the stuff?

 

[thelearner]

Good thinking: please take care to begin with low, likely nigh inactive doses. Not only is the potentiation idiosyncratic, but the range of potentiation is large. One bluelighter experienced dangerously high pulse and blood-pressure (to the point of nearly informedly calling the hospital) with 2 mg / d-amphetamine + inhibition of maob. 2 MGs! That some potentiation. But for all we know, some people might respond even more severely.

Jesus, that's absurd. What kind of MAO-B inhibition? And to what extent? My uneducated intuition tells me he was at a much higher level of MAO-B inhibition than a one-time dose of 2.5mg Deprenyl would provide, but hey, what the fuck do I know.

In any case, I am going to start w/ 2.5mg Deprenyl + 2mg 2C-I, then try a roughly once-monthly (to allow Dep. to fully exit body) experiment adding 2mg at a time. Does the time delay between experiments seem excessive? Could I tighten the timeframe somewhat to, say, 2 weeks? If not it could take up to a year to figure out dosing, which is better than, y'know, dying, but it's a long time.

Once I've found the right dose of 2C-I (if that's possible), I'll cut 2C-I in half and add in 1/2 MDMA pill with a sitter nearby.

Or, most likely, I won't do ANY of this and if I want to take 2C-I with MDMA, fuck the Deprenyl, I'll just deal with the battering to my axons and take it like a man, praying my antioxidants do their job.

 

[thelearner]

Also, keep reading about other 2C-X compounds having MAOI activity. Is this also true for 2C-I? Is it non-selective? To what extent? Do we know?

Obviously, this would potentiate MDMA, possibly dangerously, but interestingly, if the inhibition was selective for MAO-B, could provide a neuroprotective effect a la Deprenyl.

Hmmm....

 

[DwayneHoover]

I've not seen those reports of horrifying methylone benders. Perhaps you are thinking of Mephedrone or MDPV? Can you point out a link to a "horrifying bender" on Methylone?

First few times, there was an experimental wish to see if the most intense part of the euphoric phase could be extended or retriggered, but it was not at all compulsive but a conscious intellectual decision to see how the compound behaves.

But after finding it hard to do that, I did some reading, and I discovered a very basic rule of thumb those with more experience were all saying: ONE redose of 1/3 to 1.0 of the original dose WITHIN 1hr 15min of the first dose can extend the initial intense euphoric part for an additional time period, maybe another 1-1.5 hours. Any further redoses beyond that timeframe are USELESS and just cause an extension of an amphetamine-like stimulation.

And initial doses higher than 195mg do NOT give stronger or longer euphoria, again just more raw stimulation.

Hence, there is no urge to keep redosing over and over, since it just plain does not work... your body and brain tend to figure out that this is true pretty quick.

Now, even though when I have it on hand I DO feel an urge to do it once or at most twice a week, just because it feels so nice, I find even one redose only extends the "euphoric" phase by a little, not enough to be worth wasting stash that can be devoted to another single full dose later in the week. And even that one functional redose has its downside of stretching out the stimulant tail-end for and extra few hours that I usually just do not want... its not horrible or nasty in any way for me, its just at some point I want to wind down and sleep.

My body has learned... ONE dose of 175-195mg and that's it. I think I have adapted to it, because now, I feel that for me the euphoric part is not just one short 1-1.5hr pulse, but I continue to feel it well into what was at first the stim-only tail end. So that one dose is plenty good enough for me. Sometimes I do a little mild stim beforehand, like 50-75mg of 1,3-DMAA, and a little caffeine like an energy beverage to sip along with it for a while, and maybe that extends the euphoria for me.

 

[ebola?]

Jesus, that's absurd. What kind of MAO-B inhibition? And to what extent? My uneducated intuition tells me he was at a much higher level of MAO-B inhibition than a one-time dose of 2.5mg Deprenyl would provide, but hey, what the fuck do I know.

I was describing what happened with full and selective mao-b inhibition.

In any case, I am going to start w/ 2.5mg Deprenyl + 2mg 2C-I, then try a roughly once-monthly (to allow Dep. to fully exit body) experiment adding 2mg at a time. Does the time delay between experiments seem excessive? Could I tighten the timeframe somewhat to, say, 2 weeks? If not it could take up to a year to figure out dosing, which is better than, y'know, dying, but it's a long time.

This is not how I'd do it. The amount of maob inhibition yielded from a single dose will be quite unreliable, due to physical idiosyncrasies, unreliable absorption of selegiline, etc. You may yield quite significant maob inhibition, or perhaps near none. And this might vary from time to time.

You want to establish a stable regime of selegiline and then begin titrating the recreational drug.

Once I've found the right dose of 2C-I (if that's possible), I'll cut 2C-I in half and add in 1/2 MDMA pill with a sitter nearby.

This is NOT safe. You should titrate any new drug separately (or if more reckless, any new class of drug (eg, DA releasers and DARIs are different classes of drugs), titrated without another recreational drug mixed in. Only then can you approach a combo, and I wouldn't even try such a combo, since it would be so experimental (hell, I'd even suggest against combining entactogens with selegiline at all, at an unexpected multiplication in serotonergic release can be very dangerous).

Also, half a pill is WAY too much to begin with. 10 mg MDMA would be better (and you need to somehow make sure that you have a known quantity sans active cuts).

Or, most likely, I won't do ANY of this and if I want to take 2C-I with MDMA, fuck the Deprenyl, I'll just deal with the battering to my axons and take it like a man, praying my antioxidants do their job.

This is where it's at. Just don't be a fiend.

Also, keep reading about other 2C-X compounds having MAOI activity. Is this also true for 2C-I? Is it non-selective? To what extent? Do we know?

I haven't read the relevant research recently, but I recall that 2C-halo drugs were found not to inhibit MAO (at least moreso than amphetamine (technically, any enzyme-substrate is also an inhibitor for that enzyme)), but some sulfur-substituted 2Cs were found to inhibit mao non-selectively(I forget specifically which one....2ct7 maybe?). 2C-I + other phenethylamines is a go (well, generally...in terms of physical safety at sensible doses).

ebola

 

[sackynut]

I got some methylone off a friend last year. I didnt know too much about it but he told me it was like a weak version of MDMA. He gave me it free for helping move him out of his old house and that night I railed the hole thing. Maybe around .15-.2? I felt somewhat stimulated, with a tiny feeling of euphoria. But I felt EXTREMELY dirty...it made me feel like my veins were clogging up with brown dirt, and that my heart was slowly dying. It was almost dream-like in a bad delerium way.

Anyways, Ive mixed 2ci with maybe .02 of MDMA and had a fun time, but the MDMA was completely drowned out by the 2ci. On its own 2ci is stimulating and sometimes gives me a "dirty" feeling come up, mdma could help...not sure.

What I do know however is I just got my self 300 mg of pure MDA, and im gonna mix 80mg to 100mg with maybe 20mg of 2ci. MDA isnt very stimulating to me, but SUPER rolly and mildly psychedelic (currently MDA and 2ci are my two favs after lsd...just because they dont rip my brain apart.)

good luck my friend. as long as you dont start off with my than 1.5 doses of each should be fine. ive heard of people doing 80+mg of 2ci and living. and obviously there are certain people who roll like 10+ pills every weekend. have fun!

 

[MagickalKat777]

I've not seen those reports of horrifying methylone benders. Perhaps you are thinking of Mephedrone or MDPV? Can you point out a link to a "horrifying bender" on Methylone?

Both myself and catfishrivers have had methylone benders... I think my last one was 40 hours or so... But I have strong reason to suspect the M1 we had at the time had some degree of Meph contamination because the euphoria never stopped for either of us and we both ended up in ++++ land on it. Nasty nasty comedown from that one though. No benders like that for me again!

 

[nopipesdfw]

^ ++++ from meph contamination?

 

[MagickalKat777]

^ ++++ from meph contamination?

Only thing I can think of - redosing every hour for a good 40 hours, not sleeping til 48, having a ++++ from my initial like 200mg dose (I made a TR about it and got a lot of flack) - was nothing like methylone by itself. I literally was co-conscious - my subconscious mind stayed behind and typed what I was experiencing while my conscious mind went to go manipulate consciousness itself... I "snapped out of it" and my screen had a full blown trip report on it.

 

[nopipesdfw]

That is a pretty nuts reaction to that dose of meph, methylone, or a mix of any ratio of the two!

Were you sleep deprived and not eating at the time?

 

[MagickalKat777]

That is a pretty nuts reaction to that dose of meph, methylone, or a mix of any ratio of the two!

Were you sleep deprived and not eating at the time?

Neither. And I don't think CFR was in bad shape either. Oddly it was only that intense for each of us that one time, we tried recreating the same conditions of the trip and it just didn't happen - we did get seriously blasted every time though. It was just that first time with this batch that we both got wayyyyy out there...

 

[thelearner]

Ok folks, I'm back with a brief report.

T-1h - Preloaded with 8g Vitamin C, 1000mg N-Acetyl-L-Cysteine, 400IU Vitamin E, 200mg Ubiquinol, 7g Omega-3 for neuroprotective effects of anti-oxidants / anti-inflammatory effects of Omega-3.

T+0h - 20mg 2C-I consumed sublingually. Keep in mind that this is threshold dose for me, producing very mild stimulatory effects, mood elevation, and subtle changes in mental state.

T+1h - 1 "Blue Mercedes" MDMA pill consumed, effects of 2C-I becoming apparent (slight confusion, signature phenethylamine body buzz, lifted mood).

T+1.5h - I'm confused as fuck. As the MDMA starts kicking in, I'm quite able to converse reasonably well, but feel "overwhelmed" by the rave environment and am incapable of navigating directionally and have others from my group take over leading us to the next stage. I was not "overstimulated" cardiovascularly (at least that I was aware of) and did not feel tweaked out, just mental overload.

T+2.5h - Much more "clear-headed" and directionally capable, and now high as FUCK. Body high was simply orgasmic. Could have simply been fantastic pills, but I think the combination of the 2C-I + MDMA really threw me over a cliff with the body high. I wasn't quite as "loved up" or connected to others as I expected to be, but still very definite empathy and emotional opening. Also felt quite chill, with a desire to dance, but not overwhelmingly so as in the past where I tend to thrash about like a crazy person. Felt VERY relaxed, and VERY VERY good. Was hanging with a female friend of mine who I used to date, sexual tension between us is still very strong, but I now have a girlfriend. She was scratching and rubbing my back and it was simply orgasmic, and I got a bit naughty and at a couple points had a handful of her ass in my hand and was biting her neck. Felt wonderful to touch and be touched. Alas, no kissing or anything else, but I'm quite confident it would've been otherworldly. I'm a bad boy, but not that bad.

T+3h-8h - Ended up splitting from rest of group, phone died, couldn't find them, had a blast in any case, made a new best friend (seriously, brothers from another mother, really cool venue manager from Georgia where I'm from -- we grew up in the same exact neighborhood!), went to an afterparty (shit, as usual), and over this period of time took 4 more pills (too much, I know, next time I'm breaking them into 1/2 pills since I know that's all I need), fell asleep at 6am without major issue. Was kind of crappy sleep, but not horrible, especially considering I consumed 5 pills, total of about 6 hours of sleep.

Overall, the remainder of the night felt much like the early phase, with euphoria, empathy, and body high fading slowly and each pill having less effect (as expected). Disappointingly, the whole experience did not leave me feeling as "spiritually connected" as I have previously with MDMA, perhaps more social, or maybe it's simply that I am used to it after a number of experiences, as I did connect on a very deep level with my new best friend. :D

Woke up at 1pm on day after, noticed a very strange "fishy" smell to my sweat which I've never experienced after rolling. Wasn't terribly depressed, maybe a little down, but that I think could be contributed almost completely to lack sleep since I feel like shit when I don't get sleep no matter what. Appetite was normal (had a HUGE breakfast at 2pm). Passed out at 9:30pm last night and woke up at 9:30am this morning feeling VERY refreshed and in good spirits. We'll see if it last throughout the week, hopefully indicating the anti-oxidants have done their job and protected my precious neurons.

EDIT: Forgot to mention I did not get any real visuals from the combination, but did experience very intense eye wiggles and outrageous jaw gurning (which is normal for me when lots of pills are consumed).

 

[thelearner]

Nevermind. Mood is total shit today. Highly unmotivated to do anything, very grouchy, and very down. May be related to inappropriate physical contact with female friend and associated guilt I feel about it, though I feel like I made a Herculean effort by NOT going past a certain limit when it was clear my friend wanted me to (and, well, I wanted to). Told my girlfriend about her presence at the rave, she wasn't happy (rightly so), but we have mostly smoothed it out.

But am generally questioning my relationship as a whole -- why would I have put myself in such a precarious position and acted inappropriately if I loved my girl like I should.

Gonna wait this one out a bit before coming to any firm conclusions. Probably just the ol' suicide Monday. And I'd almost forgotten the way it feels. NASTY. Yes sir, gotta keep the rolls to a minimum.

 

[Lucid Dream]

My concerns with this mixture is that they are both stimulating. This can really mess with your heart rate and blood pressure. Also be careful when mixing mdma with anything that increase's serotonin levels in your brain for depression. This mixture could cause serotonin syndrome, which can be fatal, Also MAOI"s and MDMA do not Mix, I'm pretty sure death would result. I obviously have not tried it, so I can't say for sure it will kill you, but are you willing to take the chance? Treat 2c-I and Mdma with respect. If used correctly, each one of those compounds on there own is great.

 

[Al_S_Dee]

Nevermind. Mood is total shit today. Highly unmotivated to do anything, very grouchy, and very down. May be related to inappropriate physical contact with female friend and associated guilt I feel about it, though I feel like I made a Herculean effort by NOT going past a certain limit when it was clear my friend wanted me to (and, well, I wanted to). Told my girlfriend about her presence at the rave, she wasn't happy (rightly so), but we have mostly smoothed it out.

But am generally questioning my relationship as a whole -- why would I have put myself in such a precarious position and acted inappropriately if I loved my girl like I should.

Gonna wait this one out a bit before coming to any firm conclusions. Probably just the ol' suicide Monday. And I'd almost forgotten the way it feels. NASTY. Yes sir, gotta keep the rolls to a minimum.

Yeah I think you took too many XTC pills and the resultant downer is to be expected. Since you were already on 2CI, perhaps one or maybe two XTC pills should have been your max. Sounds like a good time though. I was at a rave last weekend on 2CI contemplating MDMA to become a bit more social! But we ended up not doing it - maybe next time. Have a good recovery and thanks for trip report.

PS: Hmm interesting you got no visuals! I always enjoy the 2cI visuals. I guess maybe the MDMA wiped 'em out!?

 

[thelearner]

Yeah I think you took too many XTC pills and the resultant downer is to be expected. Since you were already on 2CI, perhaps one or maybe two XTC pills should have been your max. Sounds like a good time though. I was at a rave last weekend on 2CI contemplating MDMA to become a bit more social! But we ended up not doing it - maybe next time. Have a good recovery and thanks for trip report.

PS: Hmm interesting you got no visuals! I always enjoy the 2cI visuals. I guess maybe the MDMA wiped 'em out!?

Not sure -- I think I'm just a hardhead when it comes to 2C-I. I have taken it on its own at 17mg and go zero visuals except the very lightest of haloing, and very modest mood changes / effects. At 38mg got the full package (stimulation, euphoria, potent visuals, interesting headspace, etc.)

I suspect my sweet spot is somewhere in the high 20's (38 seemed maybe a bit much, I dunno). I would have thought that with the MDMA, which is already a bit psychedelic, that I'd "get there" with 20mg, but no such luck. In any case, I think that the 2C-I is best left as icing on the MDMA cake and will probably lower the dose for both next time I combine them.