Opiates to Replace Alcohol

[amapola]

Hey all,

I'm curious as to what your thoughts are on opiates replacing alcohol for drunks. I've had a friend or two who hits the booze to hard. They would consistently do things like show up for dinner already a few deep and proceed to get smashed while others drink casually, or pound a mickey in the bathroom during a movie, and generally make fools of themselves etc. Some of them admit it they have a problem and its a disease. They can get treatment yadda yadda yadda there are underlying causing etc. etc. etc. yes I know.

What I'm interested in (as someone who occasionally takes opiates, just codeine, kratom and poppy seed tea), for whatever reason they are drinking I think opiates would serve them better. They could escape from their troubles and instead of being loud mindless slobbery idiotic brutes, they could be fully aware, functional and just at peace with life.

It makes me so mad seeing people who have problems, dealing with them chemically with ethanol as it is the only thing they know and is easily available to them.

Obviously opiates have their own negatives such as longterm addiction and the whole hey this tea this feels good how about I shoot an isolated component of it into my veins. Yet when I see a slurring drunk just trying to not have to feel or think, as I saw my friend coming out of the liquor store this afternoon, it makes me wish opiates didn't have such a negative stigma.

Anyways if you are a person who have used opiates to replace alcohol (with positive results or bad) or if you think opiates in exchange for ethanol is an idea with merit or not. Please feel free to post. I know I touched on the whole legalize it issue here but I'd really rather not get any rants on the man, just the pros and cons I suppose.

 

[StaySedated]

thats a bad idea, you're just replacing one dangerous habit with another. turning drunks into junkies is not the way to go.

i guess the best alternative would be to turn them on to pot, other than that i'm not sure.

 

[MadWolfZX]

Of course opiates are far better than ethanol, in terms of trading one addiction for another. The opiates are in no way toxic, and as you pointed out, they can be fully in control of their actions while on opiates, where as the reverse is true for ethanol.

Before the idiotic 1914 prohibition on narcotics in the U.S.A., some doctors actually introduced opiates to alcohol addicted people as a replacement because of the above reasons.

If the user reliably uses tolerance control and potentiation methods from day 1, many opiate users can keep their tolerances much lower as compared to not using these precautions. However, must people only learn of the tolerance regulation methods long after they have been using and already have acquired a large tolerance.

DXM (30-60mg per dose) administered about 45 minutes prior to every opiate dose can go a long way towards keeping tolerance stable for far longer periods of time. I, for example, have been able to keep my tolerance from rising more than about 10 percent for 2 years now, by always administering the DXM with every opiate dose daily. Also it is wise to add certain antihistamines to potentiate the opiate effect as well as use white grapefrut juice combined with Tagament to help increase the duration of effects. You should look up these things yourself; I'm just giving a few examples for illustrative purposes. I wish I had known about these tolerance prevention and potentiation techniques when I first started using opiates; my tolerance raised at least 1500% in the 1st year of use. Yes, I said fifteen-hundred percent! But after I started using the techniques, I was able to gain a high degree of stability. My tolerance has risen only by about 10%-25% in the last two+ years. That is a radical difference.

Opium pods are still the safest(both physically and legally) overall opiate it seems, unless you can actually get reliable and regular prescriptions. With the right pods, a very high quality euphoria can be had, and depending on the way you administer the material, it can have extreme duration periods.

BTW, one opiate I would recommend avoiding is methadone. It does not provide a euphoria when used by most people for any kind of extended time. Also, it has potential toxic effects that are suspected and it has been shown in at least one controlled study to have substantial effects on bone density with long term use. Methadone should be limited to addict maintenance programs - not recreational use.

Chris

 

[rickolasnice]

Of course opiates are far better than ethanol, in terms of trading one addiction for another. The opiates are in no way toxic, and as you pointed out, they can be fully in control of their actions while on opiates, where as the reverse is true for ethanol.

It's pretty hard to and uncommon for people to overdose and die from alcohol.. where as with opiates it is alot more likely..

I'm not saying opiates are worse.. i just don't think switching one dangerous habit for another is the way to go.

 

[MadWolfZX]

thats a bad idea, you're just replacing one dangerous habit with another. turning drunks into junkies is not the way to go.

i guess the best alternative would be to turn them on to pot, other than that i'm not sure.

Opiate use is one of the safest things one can do if used responsibly. Negative problems occur when careless behavior is present, such as poly-drug use(mixing several powerful drugs together) and using 'street' drugs that can contain ANYTHING and have no standardized dose/strength, sometimes having several magnitudes of an order of difference in strength in some rare cases - such as the horrible fentanyl incidents a few years back where hardened junkies would fall over dead within seconds of injection.

Chris

 

[MadWolfZX]

It's pretty hard to and uncommon for people to overdose and die from alcohol.. where as with opiates it is alot more likely..

I'm not saying opiates are worse.. i just don't think switching one dangerous habit for another is the way to go.

Alcohol is extremely toxic when used chronically. Most opiates have no toxicity. As for overall safety, refer to my post I made just before this one.

Also, every year in the USA alcohol causes several tens of thousands of deaths DIRECTLY from it's toxicity on the body causing fatal diseases, overdose, etc.; where as the combined deaths from all the different types of narcotics is a tiny fraction of this total.

Chris

 

[rickolasnice]

Alcohol is extremely toxic when used chronically. Most opiates have no toxicity. As for overall safety, refer to my post I made just before this one.

Also, every year in the USA alcohol causes several tens of thousands of deaths DIRECTLY from it's toxicity on the body causing fatal diseases, overdose, etc.; where as the combined deaths from all the different types of narcotics is a tiny fraction of this total.

Chris

The thing with alcoholics is that they don't use responsibly.. If doctors started prescribing alcoholics with opiates i'd bet the number of deaths by opiates would greatly rise while the deaths caused by alcohol would be hardly affected.

 

[amapola]

Thanks for all the responses.

I think its summed up the question pretty well in your answers.

If you are going to continue to horrendously abuse whatever you are taking then there is no point in switching from ethanol to opiates, but if you can keep a handle on it then by all means do switch.

In searching since my original post I've also found that opiates can "ruin" alcohol for a lot of people just because they can get somewhat similar effects without all the stupidness. I haven't experienced that, still enjoy alcohol, but it could be more of a social thing. Drinking beer with the guys or fancy wine on a date rather than the actually feeling being superior.

I agree alcoholic to druggy is not necessarily a good thing, but I still wonder if they can be used to kick it. Anyone with experience in opiates to kick alcohol would be great.

edit:

The thing with alcoholics is that they don't use responsibly.. If doctors started prescribing alcoholics with opiates i'd bet the number of deaths by opiates would greatly rise while the deaths caused by alcohol would be hardly affected.

This is an interesting point. I wonder though if alcohol abuse is a bit of a cycle. In effect they continue to drink because they are upset about what they have done while drunk. If this is true then it might still be helpful. Also for those people who take one drink and then their inhibition is gone so they take another, keeping a clear head on opiates might prevent this behaviour. For example a drunk might wake up and not even remember drinking the whole bottle and wish while drunk they didn't.

Perhaps I'll go hijack an alcohol thread in a bit though i might get flamed out :D

 

[Psychedelic Jay]

It's pretty hard to and uncommon for people to overdose and die from alcohol.. where as with opiates it is alot more likely..

I'm not saying opiates are worse.. i just don't think switching one dangerous habit for another is the way to go.

Alcohol poisoning is one of the top direct drug death causes...

Alcohol poisoning is hard and uncommon? Have you heard of Everclear?

 

[MadWolfZX]

In searching since my original post I've also found that opiates can "ruin" alcohol for a lot of people just because they can get somewhat similar effects without all the stupidness. I haven't experienced that, still enjoy alcohol, but it could be more of a social thing. Drinking beer with the guys or fancy wine on a date rather than the actually feeling being superior.

This is of course variable, depending on the person AND the specific opiate. Different drugs have various effects.

If you used a sufficient dose of a high quality powdered opium pod, I wager it would be found to be a vastly superior high to alcohol. Opium can produce a far more 'fuller' body high compared to most singular/pure drugs. Personally, no other opiate, and especially not alcohol, can compare to the euphoria I have experienced from opium.

BTW, I have used opiates daily for years, but this is not for recreational purposes. I have chronic pain problems that require powerful painkillers just for me to be able to exist without wanting to end myself(due to the severe nature of my problems when not medicated).

Chris

 

[K'd-OUT-in-AZ]

Give a drunk opiates in an attempt to get clean and the alcoholic most likely will just end up using both together. Probably overdose from the combination down the line. You shouldn't give a drug addict other "highly" abusable drugs.

 

[rickolasnice]

Alcohol poisoning is one of the top direct drug death causes...

Alcohol poisoning is hard and uncommon? Have you heard of Everclear?

Quick search tells me alcohol poisoning was reported 2.5 times more than opiate overdose.. Considering the amount of people that drink recreationally to those that take opiates recreationally i'd still say you are alot more likely to overdose on an opiate than alcohol.

But, yeah, to be honest.. i don't know too much on the subject.. don't take my word for anything

 

[rickolasnice]

Give a drunk opiates in an attempt to get clean and the alcoholic most likely will just end up using both together. Probably overdose from the combination down the line. You shouldn't give a drug addict other "highly" abusable drugs.

Excellent point.

 

[amapola]

Give a drunk opiates in an attempt to get clean and the alcoholic most likely will just end up using both together. Probably overdose from the combination down the line. You shouldn't give a drug addict other "highly" abusable drugs.

Okay then say opiates had always been both legal and available, would society still have so many drunks? If not then it stands to reason drunks could switch to opiates and not use both.

 

[K'd-OUT-in-AZ]

Okay then say opiates had always been both legal and available, would society still have so many drunks? If not then it stands to reason drunks could switch to opiates and not use both.

Yes, I believe there still be the same amount of drunks. If a drunk isn't ready to quit they won't. If opiates were legal just like alcohol they would realize that combining opiates greatly enhances the high. I don't think drunks would decide to quit just because opiates were available, I think more would be using the two in combination.

 

[Psychedelic Jay]

Yes, I believe there still be the same amount of drunks. If a drunk isn't ready to quit they won't. If opiates were legal just like alcohol they would realize that combining opiates greatly enhances the high. I don't think drunks would decide to quit just because opiates were available, I think more would be using the two in combination.

Exactly. I think Poly-drug deaths will be in a very high order.

 

[phatass]

It's pretty hard to and uncommon for people to overdose and die from alcohol.. where as with opiates it is alot more likely..

I'm not saying opiates are worse.. i just don't think switching one dangerous habit for another is the way to go.

Proportionally, i think more people die of alcohol abuse...

But switching from drink to opies is not a solution... i have friends who prefer the booze "high" to the opiate high... its a question of personal preferance... also booze is easily available.... i don't like it when my friends are so drunk theyre vomiting, talking shit, picking fights... but i know my friends don't like it if i'm floating on a cloud, sitting on a couch no talking (which is why i almost only take opies when i'm alone)

and i would never encourage anyone to try opiates if they didn't want to...

 

[littlesparkle]

use valium.much much more controllable and definitely helps alco wd's

 

[phatass]

^^ its one thing to use valium as a substitute to detox off lacohol and taking valium every day... benzo addiction isn't as bad for your body as alcohol daily, but it's still replacing one addiction for another

 

[stray cat]

i've known people who have started using opiates more frequently during periods of abstinence from alcohol. in every case, they've just ended up addicted to opiates as well as alcohol.