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  • BDD Moderators: Keif’ Richards

How many of you suffer insomnia? And...

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having previously discredited alcohol i terms of sleeping:

thursdays are 1$ pbr and bluegrass music, coupled with the fact that the bike ride back to my flat is all up hill I may just fall asleep tonight w/o an Rx drug
 
having previously discredited alcohol i terms of sleeping:

thursdays are 1$ pbr and bluegrass music, coupled with the fact that the bike ride back to my flat is all up hill I may just fall asleep tonight w/o an Rx drug

You know you might have a problem with alcohol when you know the cheap drinks days and times of every bar for miles around. :) (I also knew which pubs and bottle shops opened before 9am)

Enjoy the music!
 
3. There was a ~1.5 year period where I was scripted anti-psychotics to help me sleep. Zyprexa (olanzapine) initially but the side effects were too much for me. Then I tried Invega (paliperidone) and again the side effects outweighed any benefit. Finally I was scripted Seroquel (quetiapine) 300mg XR and Seroquel 200mg IR to use as needed for sleeping. I used the Seroquel every night for the last ~8 months of that ~1.5 year period (in high doses often, 400 - 600mg) and eventually I started feeling a bunch of weird/unpleasant side effects and decided I wanted to find another way to sleep than take anti-psychs when I never had a psychotic condition in the first place. So I stopped taking them daily, and only use them very rarely now and in doses of 50mg IR, no higher. Seroquel had some strange/shitty w/ds too, something the doctor never tells you, just like with SSRIs. "Don't worry they're not habit forming" :\

Yeah, no shit. They never tell you about the potential dependence problems associated with SSRI's and anti-psychotics. Just because these drugs don't have abuse potential doesn't mean that there isn't the chance of addiction. I was never told that Effexor was addictive but when I tried to get off it, boy was I in for a surprise!
 
I was lucky enough to ditch the SSRI's (zoloft in particular) after only 2 months, so no dependence ever built up. Recently a doc suggested trying other SSRI's or an SNRI, I said I wasn't interested, straight up. I have a psych appt next tuesday and my stance will still be the same. If the only suggestion is try another SSRi or an SNRI I'm not doing it.

No idea how the psych (first meeting) will take to me suggesting different medications but I've got a list of things I'd rather try than Seroquel, SSRI's or SNRI's
 
What most do not know about seroquel and others is that if you take too much you will not go to sleep.

You need to take the right amount, or it will be akathisia, rapid heartbeat, and increase in paranoia for your ass. CHEMICAL TORTURE


I quote myself for all the people who take/took seroquel and realized how evil anti-psychotics are.
 
I quote myself for all the people who take/took seroquel and realized how evil anti-psychotics are.

Am I the only person in this thread whose doctor actually explained the risks and benefits of their psych meds as well as the alternatives and the risks and benefits of each of those?
 
only my most recent doc has mentioned side effects of what she gave me, but only the mirtzaipine, not the klonopin or trazadone; when I told her the trazadone wasn't working and was having adverse effects I referenced research that Trazadone metabolizes into mCPP and she outright admitted that she wasn't familiar. Trazadone is a pretty common prescription but I'd bet not all of the doctors who prescribe it are familiar with its possible side effects.
 
Chronic-Intermittent Insomnia for the last 2.5 years I believe its unrelated to my drug use (pot is really the only drug I use with any frequency, that alcohol; once in a blue moon I've done something like lsd or shrooms or ex, never enough to have caused this insomnia)

Meds tried:

OTC Pain/AntiHistamine/Doxylammine/Herbal
Xanax [Alprazolam] (0.5mg, occasionally more)
Zoloft [Sertraline] (up to around 150-200mg)
Ambien [Zolpidem Tartrate] IR (10-30mg)
Trazadone (up to 150 or 200mg)
Klonopin [Clonazepam] (0.5mg, occasionally more)
Mirtazipine (7.5 - 30mg) {NOTE Less is more here, Higher doses reduce its effects}
Marijuana [unknown strains, good and bad, wish I could find 100% indica] (small doses at night)

My feelings on them:
OTC Pain/AntiHistamine/Doxylammine - crap for me, bad mornings;
Herbal -{chamomile, valerian, kava, melatonin} better than nothings, nice herbal teas are soothing and good for sleep hygiene, melatonin can give strange dreams, melatonin used to be mildly helpful {NOTE les is more for melatonin, a 1mg dose is plenty, don't be tricked by things marketed as EXTRA-Strength melatonin 10mg tabs... its bulcrap};
Xanax- better than nothing but alone in a small dose not as helpful;
Zoloft- all around crap, no help for sleep or anxiety;
Ambien- no trippiness, little sleep help, wasn't worth the money (even at cheap generic) just didn't help me;
Trazadone- worked at first, starting low doses (50mg) as doses got higher it eventually stopped working; Trazadone has issues with its main metabolite being mCPP [read bad]; it can have bad morning effects though I rarely had these until just lately, thus I stopped taking it;
Klonopin- Much better than xanax; so far is working ok. but Im afraid of tolerance increasing too much; its great in day time at very small dose for when I am teaching and having anxiety issues that day
Mirtazipine - very bizarre; knocks me out, but began to develop weird dreams in the mornings: I'd wake up and do something then wake up agin in bed and go do something else then wake up again in bed, finally actually waking up very confused/disturbed at having dreamed so many random events.

Want to ask the doc/psych soon about trying an Rx for small dose klonopin for occasional daytime use(0.5mg) and something stronger for nights like Temezepam/Nitrazepam
That way I wouldn't ever be abusing the night time slepy benzo, but could occasionally use the knolopin more (Can you blame me for maybe once a month liking to smoke a bit of herb and take a klonopin...)

Don't want to try seroquel, heard/read too many bad things;


Marijuana - This has helped me as much as any Rx drug I have tried, Its probably hard to get a medical Rx for insomnia/anxiety for weed, but I literally live like 5 miles from a state where medical pot is legal; Pot can be good and bad for sleep; you need the right kind of strain and the right dose; too much and you can't sleep because you're wayyyy to high, or wrong strain and you may have body stone but too much mental buzz to be able to sleep etc.
that being said with the advances in medical marijuana, you could get the strain that is tailored just to your needs for anxiety and sleeping. Dear Everyone, legalize medical marijuana, help me out here.

there's my 2 or more cents. I'd love to hear feed back from others.

(of course different combinations of the above apply but that would make this post wayyy to long.
a little herb and a low dose of klonopin works wonders)

Good post. Marijuana also really helps me out, probably the most effective drug for sleep IMO.
 
I take Temazepam 30mg nightly and smoke some pot, without, it takes literally forever to fall asleep, sucks, but a nice joint or a couple rips out the bubbler and a temazzie and I'm out like a light <3
 
I quote myself for all the people who take/took seroquel and realized how evil anti-psychotics are.

True, one night I was in a really bad mood, had no drugs and stupidly just ate 6x 200mg IR Seroquels (usual dose was 150-300mg) and I actually got paradoxical effects. Felt crazy, and not psychedelic crazy, like I'd lost my mind crazy. Thankfully it only lasted 30-45 minutes then passed and I fell asleep. Strange chemical.
 
True, one night I was in a really bad mood, had no drugs and stupidly just ate 6x 200mg IR Seroquels (usual dose was 150-300mg) and I actually got paradoxical effects. Felt crazy, and not psychedelic crazy, like I'd lost my mind crazy. Thankfully it only lasted 30-45 minutes then passed and I fell asleep. Strange chemical.

Why in the world would you take 1200mg of Seroquel ?!?
 
Like I said, I was in a really bad mood, thinking irrationally I guess. We all do dumb shit in our lives. This was ages ago, I was young and stupid as they say. I wanted to just fuck myself up and escape. W/ds and external circumstances can send logic out the door.
 
only my most recent doc has mentioned side effects of what she gave me, but only the mirtzaipine, not the klonopin or trazadone; when I told her the trazadone wasn't working and was having adverse effects I referenced research that Trazadone metabolizes into mCPP and she outright admitted that she wasn't familiar. Trazadone is a pretty common prescription but I'd bet not all of the doctors who prescribe it are familiar with its possible side effects.

I think a lot of docs leave it up to the pharmacist to tell you what you need to know about the medication. Many meds here no longer come with a manufacturer's leaflet (my Seroquel and Epilim don't), so if the pharmacist doesn't print you out information on the drug or check what you know about it (and when they're busy and you just want to pick up your prescription and go I can see that not happening) there's every chance of you remaining unaware of the important stuff I guess.
 
I'll make a point next week, regardless of the outcome of the psych apt to ask for some more info about the drugs they may or may not prescribe. I normally do my own research on them anyway but it'd be reassuring to hear it from the prescriber or at least the pharmacist. The psych I will be seeing is for the first time so I don't know what to expect; he's only around once a week for 2 hours at campus so its rather hard to get appointments with him.
 
1: Yes. I must be awake for at least 20 hours to sleep well, otherwise it can take a few hours of trying. But if I fail (usually), I must wait another few hours, and I'm left feeling slightly nauseated, very bored, and a little sick of my bed and bedroom. For several reasons, I wake up in the evening and fall asleep late morning more often than not.

2. No, my drug use didn't cause my insomnia. I was frequently staying up at night before I started, but it still had a large impact on my sleep. I now have more trouble staying asleep when I wake up mid-night.
I consider Cannabis Indica to be a poor sleep aid, and Cannabis Sativa prevents me from sleeping more than oral speed does. As a daily smoker, I rarely remember my dreams, but they're always beyond strange. Cannabis can make me tired and it made my dreams more vivid but sleep less deep. More often than not, I wake up feeling tired, especially if I smoke to sleep.
Cannabis has negatively affected my sleeping, but in a relatively mild way.

Alcohol is a pretty bad sleep aid. One or two beers is nice but getting drunk or abusing it made sleep more difficult for me. Benzodiazepines and related drugs are generally good sleep aids. They are my favourite class for sleep. Since I find significant recreational value in zopiclone, it's no longer effective as a sleep aid. Lorazepam is more boring and can help at high doses. A plus is that the benzo "crash" is extremely easy to handle. A minus is that benzo tolerance is a bitch. A REAL bitch. Don't we know it... :)
Reducing from roughly 5-10 to 3-6 benzo and Z pills per day has made sleep more difficult, and long-term I have a bad feeling about them.

Diphenhydramine (A.K.A. Benadryl) helps me sleep. Lately, a single benadryl has helped me sleep, but higher doses shorten my fuse more than alcohol and make me feel like shit the next morning. It also lasts too long for me and produces distinct nightmares. There is usually more of a crash and hangover feeling than with benzos. It's a very decent sleep aid (and keeps me asleep), BUT having used high doses (up to 600mg), I now find it quite disturbing. It's a very nightmarish hallucinogen at high doses and feels very poison-like. Yes, deliriants have helped me sleep. I once took 20 dramamine tablets when I was young, inexperienced, and stupid. Since then, especially in the first two months, sleeping has been easier but scarier. Dimenhydrinate (dramamine) completely changed the way I slept, and dreamt, for a while.

5-HTP and melatonin have helped me sleep in subtle ways.
There was a time when I used cigarettes to help me sleep, but they are a little less than top-class sleep aids. It ranks higher than alcohol though.

3.
I was prescribed a low dose of Ativan (lorazepam) for sleep when I was a child.
As an addict, I always end the night with one to three zopiclones and lorazepams, and often add cigarettes, a few beers, and 1-15 benadryls (six is my limit before the druggie in me takes over). To spice up the mix, I usually add a good amount of Indica. I occasionally take Prazosin (lowers blood pressure), which reduces the required amount of pills by up to 1/3.

I may have answered more than you asked for but there you go.
 
only my most recent doc has mentioned side effects of what she gave me, but only the mirtzaipine, not the klonopin or trazadone; when I told her the trazadone wasn't working and was having adverse effects I referenced research that Trazadone metabolizes into mCPP and she outright admitted that she wasn't familiar. Trazadone is a pretty common prescription but I'd bet not all of the doctors who prescribe it are familiar with its possible side effects.

Trazadone is well known to cause very rapid heartbeat.

This is why I can't take it.
 
I'll make a point next week, regardless of the outcome of the psych apt to ask for some more info about the drugs they may or may not prescribe. I normally do my own research on them anyway but it'd be reassuring to hear it from the prescriber or at least the pharmacist. The psych I will be seeing is for the first time so I don't know what to expect; he's only around once a week for 2 hours at campus so its rather hard to get appointments with him.

O.K. first off, doctors are not just supposed to throw you any old thing that makes you sleepy for you insomnia.

Here is how it is supposed to go, for any medication...
This is no guide, This is only to show how you doctor is supposed to treat you, not just throw you a cocktail and you suffer from horrible side effects.

-You do research on the med you want for your specific claim. (Disorder/ Illness) This will not work for pain medication, if you have no medical record for tolerance, they will refuse to give you stronger meds in a heartbeat.

-You go to the doctor.

-You tell your doctor in as much detail about your problem. (Do not just waltz in there claiming to have insomnia or anxiety looking well rested and the least bit anxious.) You have to back up every single claim you make, or you will fail.

-Your doctor will suggest a medication. (This is where you say if you can take that med or not, and give a good explanation. SIDE EFFECTS) This is the step that over 75% of people who want a medication that is for a specific disorder/illness and is also a controlled substance fail. You have to be educated on the substance you request.This is where the doctor decides if this is the right thing to do. Some doctors will be clueless of the meds you request/ like to try.

-Get your meds filled if you got what you wanted, if you didn't Do not waste your own money for something you can't and are not wanting to take.


Insomnia is no joke, All of these anti-histamine and anti-psychotic medication is just not a comfortable sedation.

I just cannot sleep on benadryl, Thorazine, Seroquel, TCAs, other sedating anti-depressants. I will get rapid heartbeat, paranoia, overheated, akathisia, really bad. Most doctors are just too concerned with addiction to the med vs. really helping you sleep.
 
Yep, I'm an insomniac, the doc says so anyway...

I've always had issues with sleep, when I was young I suffered night terrors. When the night terrors stopped, I was still staying awake for two/three days at a time (as a twelve/thirteen year old) but I wouldn't make that sleep up, when I would sleep it would only be for five to six hours, then I'd be up..

As I've grown older and abused the fuck out of speed I haven't really considered myself to suffer insomnia, simply because I'll go on a run for five/six days and not sleep, this is primarily due to the drugs I think.. Perhaps the insomnia gets a look in every now and then.. I have noticed if I don't score I'm really tired and can sleep an entire day (the first day) away but as time grows between using, not sleeping creeps back after the third day or so. I haven't really gone many days without scoring lately so this is all untested hypotheses haha..
 
True, one night I was in a really bad mood, had no drugs and stupidly just ate 6x 200mg IR Seroquels (usual dose was 150-300mg) and I actually got paradoxical effects. Felt crazy, and not psychedelic crazy, like I'd lost my mind crazy. Thankfully it only lasted 30-45 minutes then passed and I fell asleep. Strange chemical.
I got that on trazadone, was up all night slept at 6-7am, then I went to bed for 4 hours. next day was hell. never touched that shit again
 
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