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4-AcO-DMT plus Syrian Rue, any comments or experience?

instink

instink

Bluelighter
Joined
Jun 27, 2008
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Hey guys, I'm looking to enhance my 4-aco-dmt trips, and have got myself a little vial of Syrian Rue seeds.

Having never used these in any way before I really want to make sure I know what I'm doing going in. Unfortunately it seems that information regarding doing this, while available, is fragmented and hard to get a solid idea of what (and how much) to do.

So can somebody please help in bringing it all together for me, say if i normally would take 30mg 4-aco-dmt for a strong-ish (but lately unsatisfying) trip:

1) What dose of 4-aco-dmt would I use when combining
2) What dose of rue seeds, and how to prepare that dose
3) I normally prefer rectal admin of my 4aco, any considerations regarding doing this when potentiating with rue

Thanks guys, I'd really appreciate some help :D
 
side question: what about the trips are unsatisfying? What satisfies you?
 
Ok a quick rundown on me and psychs. Done very little tripping (or drugs in general) in my life, but since day 1 have had an incredibly high tolerance, which leads to chronic unsatisfying trips.

I've probbaly tripped 10-15 times in my whole life, all within the last 2 years. Not more eften than once a month though usually less often. Last time was a week ago, 35mg 4-aco-dmt anally which most BL members would consider a stupidly high dose, particularly for anal.

Me however, I enjoyed it but at no point felt anywhere near to out of my mind, minor visuals (ALWAYS minor visuals, on any drug :( ), and overall totally in control. I'd say that while it was probably a +++, it was a weak one.

I hope that helps you understand why I'd like to see where rue can take me. I do love 4-aco-dmt I just wish it was 'more', and I really don't think at this point that upping my dose higher than 35mg anal (which is probably equiv to at least 60mg oral I suppose) would really be the right way to go about it.

Also if the numbers are important, 28y/o male, fit and healthy, 93kg, no other drugs (prescription or other) taken on a regular basis. Not even caffeine. I have a few drinks most weekends, thats about it.
 
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Unless you've taken some ssri type of drug at any point during your life, I am slightly surprised.

There could be something quite large in you that maintains control, and probably does not want to be exposed, seen, or otherwise encountered directly.

I suppose I can't help but say, you must have some idea of what you are looking for when you're taking these drugs. What are you hoping to have happen? Do you just want to lose control? Why? Are you hoping for any sorts of discoveries in any particular areas of yourself? Any certain experiences you've had in your life that you want to reflect upon to better understand? Anything Like that?
 
Thanks for the reply :)

One of the first times I did 4aco (30mg anal) I did completely lose control in the most amazing and fun way, if you're interested here is my brief report on it

Basically I'd love to be able to go back to something like that on a semi-regular basis. Like every couple months I mean. But since then every single time has been so anti-climatic.

I know you're going to say I have my hopes too high but to me when that kind of experience happens, your expectations are irrelevant - since I totally lost my mind I really don't know if expectations come into it, it was a very distinct line between every other trip I've ever had (almost always feeling at least 50% in control, to the point where last weekend I reckon I could have been around my parents and they wouldn't have known, thats the sort of 'in-control' I mean)

I mean I don't even care if I can re-create that level of intensity regularly - just something more than these weak experiences i've been having lately. Hence wanting to give the rue a go. All reports I've read basically say that it gives the trip a very dreamy, spiritual kind of feel.

I get dreamy and spiritual from DXM and I love it - the sort of semi-consciousness out-of-body is what I love. Of course I'm not trying to get the same thing from 4aco+rue but I just want something that feels like I'm in another place, either mentally, physically or spiritually. From what I've read it sounds like rue could help me with this. I just want some help on dosage mostly, because I do understand it is a potentially risky combo!
 
Sorry I realise I got a bit off track to your questions!

"Are you hoping for any sorts of discoveries in any particular areas of yourself? Any certain experiences you've had in your life that you want to reflect upon to better understand? Anything Like that?"

Honestly I'm very happy with my life and who I am, tripping for me is about having fun and discovering the different ways in which my brain and thought processes can be changed for interesting and fun results. Pretty shallow I suppose, relative to the reasons some people trip, but I'm really just after fun and exploration of the minds capabilities.
 
Well, I appreciate what you are sharing, I have some more thoughts in that area for you. About the Rue, though, I think the amount of seeds is in the something gram range, I cannot make any real recommendations, but I think a gram or 2 and take it a bit before the mushrooms.

Anyways, if I may continue my inquiry. So you're looking for the feeling of being somewhere else, being away from the normalcy of everyday life I imagine. Perhaps you're just a very centered person, and that feeling of knowing what the fuck you are doing persists because well you've just gotten good at it.

The other thing to keep in mind, is if you're at that level, well you cannot rely on the drug to do the work for you. It wont rip the steering wheel out of your hands if you're holding it properly. Maybe the next step in your journey is to practice giving up the feelings of needing to be in control any time, any where.
 
instink said:
Sorry I realise I got a bit off track to your questions!

"Are you hoping for any sorts of discoveries in any particular areas of yourself? Any certain experiences you've had in your life that you want to reflect upon to better understand? Anything Like that?"

Honestly I'm very happy with my life and who I am, tripping for me is about having fun and discovering the different ways in which my brain and thought processes can be changed for interesting and fun results. Pretty shallow I suppose, relative to the reasons some people trip, but I'm really just after fun and exploration of the minds capabilities.
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hmm hmm okay, interesting. I suppose since you've got most personal issues, life problems, little shit solved, you are looking for a challenge of some sort. One that forces you into new territory, new areas of the mind. Well to that I say okay, maybe you just have to be willing to explore topics that you've never explored before. Or do something you've never done before. Or move a certain way you've never moved before.
 
Like maybe put yourself in the woods in the middle of no where, safe, but in unfamiliar territory, and then dose up and explore the outside world while you explore the inside world. They often go together like that.
 
I appreciate the advice and I have considered all those things aswell, but all I'm after from this thread is just some advice and recommendations on dosage and preparation from someone whos done it before... thanks!
 
Thanks, I read the 4aco + rue reports but didnt think to check the mushroom ones. cheers
 
A friend VERY experienced in Ayahuasca-analogue stuff once did alot of research both reading as well as self-experimenting... and I have done a good deal of self-experimenting as well:

The amount of Syrian Rue seed containing a sufficient amount of harmine/harmalines to potentiate oral DMT (as well as 5-meo-dmt as well as shroom, so probably also applies to 4-aco-dmt) = 3 GRAMS. This is about = one slightly heaping teaspoon, which is a perfectly fine way to measure it out. Grind to a fine powder in a coffee bean grinder. Here's how I would consume it... using a teaspoon, load about the front 1/3 - 1/2 of the teaspoon with some of the Rue powder... open wide.... hold breath... carefully insert spoon and dump the powder on the back of the tongue... take a FAST good-sized couple of slugs/gulps of some strong juice... OJ is good; Pineapple juice is ideal IMO due to the extreme sweetness + extreme tartness + thickness & particulate content which helps lift and carry the power down. You will barely taste a thing but the juice. Repeat a few times till all the Rue powder is down. I would strongly advise against using it by plugging... I'm pretty sure it needs to go thru digestive tract to be effective.
 
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Rue adds a great deal of calmness, centeredness and "spirituality" to shroom trips...

Lets me use 1.5mg instead of 2-3 for a very strong trip, that really feels like a different thing entirely than shrooms themselves... quite excellent and extraordinary.

Eliminates the shroom-anxiety that is common, and seems to manifest an awareness of some very beneficent, calm, loving Spirit Guide/Guardian presence that is hovering beside/over/within you... your mind seems to feel like it has a chaperone for the trip and like you have access to some very ancient deep and sacred thoughts through the friend-being.

It does NOT feel like a freaky hallucination. It really feels like some hithertoo unknown channel or frequency has been tuned-in / turned-on in your brain and you are actually experiencing a very real true presence of this pervasive, ancient conscious entity that is always near us but that we cannot normally "pick up". It seems very consistent and very reliable, and like it is glad to see me once again when I start to be able to feel it. I don't know what it is, but it really feels like some true spirit-being has entered the room and is embracing me and helping me. I hope I don't sound like an over-emotional loon, but it really is almost like over time I have developed a personal relationship with this force/being that is NOT just a part of my own brain, but something that is actually "out there."
 
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Thanks mate, that sounds like awesome advice. Although instead of throwing powder down the back of my throat I might just put it in capsules :D

Thanks for mentioning mushroom dose too - I suppose I'll (approximately) halve my usual 4aco dose when using Rue.

Thanks again - if you come up with anything else to add feel free, because I will be checking the thread =D cheers!
 
Look, man, I think you need to sit back and take stock you know, have a thin....oh fuck it, take the rue and a lower dose of 4-AcO-DMT then you normally would. :D <3

(sorry, I just read your post in PD social, had to be a smartarse)...
 
i actually feel that the seeds do not need to be ground or chewed, both of which will release their foul medicine flavor. A heaping teaspoon of the seeds should be swallowed whole, and should be active within 30 minutes.

DH, have you ever taken more than 3g shrooms in this combo fashion? i wish i had hard numbers, but it was an eyeballed amount of psilocybe cyanescens that gave me some +11 trips :)
 
The 3g/1tsp of seeds amount was carefully arrived at the give the ideal amount of MAOI compounds to have the desired effect... too little and it doesnt work, too much and negative side effects. I find it hard to believe swallowing them whole releases ALL of the constituents. And the flavor when ground I always thought was not especially foul..If you dont want to just down the powder like I do, you can cap it, OR you can mix it with just enough peanut butter to make a few clumps you can easily swallow and that go straight down with on only peanut butter taste, or my friend mixes it with honey which is an intense enough taste to effectively completely cover the taste and sweet enough to completely block and sensation of the bitterness which is a major part of the somewhat yucky taste.... but 1 heaping tsp of ground seed is really not that much, so only a few swallows either way.. Still, if swallowing them whole really does work in this same smount, then sure why not I guess.

Man, I dont see how you can eyeball any amount of shrooms... the dried stems and caps have a really astonishing difference in density, and its due to the variable way that the mycellium end up growing together to form the fruiting bodies... sometimes the same size piece, both stems or caps, can be sort of hollow and airy and light, and other times one with the exact same external appearance can be alot more dense and weigh 3X what the airy ones weigh.

But I guess the range of shrooms as well as the range of seeds that will do the trick is pretty variable so its not necessarily an exact science. But especially on the Rue, the difference between the effects of 1.5-2 grams and that of 2.5-3 can be VERY profound indeed! The rue seems to be an exponential multiplier, so be careful! Though as I said, the Rue seems to also act as a buffer and emotional stabilizer even as it strengthens them, so even if you end up alot higher than you planned, you will probably still be OK... this effect is one of the nicest things about riding the shrooms on a sled of seeds... you can use less and its a better effect to boot.
 
Dude go get some piracetam... take 1g 3 times a day... your tryptamine tolerance will cut in half and you will most likely hallucinate hard as hell too. Curious... is your AcO brown/tan? Or is it white?

And if you want a good MAOI - go find tetrahydroharmine HCl online...
 
Dammit DH, I wasn't going to do this for another few weeks but now you're really making me want to do it sooner :D
 
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