Opioids I.V. Filtering with Hepa

[Ronin ZX3]

Hey I have been reading alot about using drugs I.V. and was wondering if it would be safe to filter your drug mix with HEPA before putting it into the needle.

HEPA is commonly used to filter particles out of air, down to .3 microns.

It seems like it would work the same as a wheel filter, but I just need some confirmation. Thanks

 

[lostreality]

This is just speculation but I don't think it would work very well. My guess is that you will find it difficult to get a liquid through the filter. When micron filters are used, pressure is used to force the liquid through it. This is assuming the filter would work which I have no idea if it would.

 

[cj]

Sounds like a bad idea what are you trying to filter?

 

[Captain.Heroin]

You mean a micron filter in a HEPA filter within an air purifier?

Please: do not use that.

Get micron filters that fit onto a luer lock syringe.

 

[Ronin ZX3]

You mean a micron filter in a HEPA filter within an air purifier?

Please: do not use that.

Get micron filters that fit onto a luer lock syringe.

Is there any specific reason for not using it?

I was thinking that fibers might break off get into your solution, but I cant be sure if they would or not.

 

[Captain.Heroin]

Is there any specific reason for not using it?

I was thinking that fibers might break off get into your solution, but I cant be sure if they would or not.

Because micron filters that attach onto a luer lock syringe work fine enough. The PES or PVDF filter is probably ideal for most drugs you are interested in IVing.

I feel like you would lose a large amount of material in a HEPA filter, that's why I wouldn't use it.

 

[Ronin ZX3]

Alright sounds good, thanks for all the input everyone.

 

[pink_floyd04]

obviously wheel filters are ideal and very necessary, but i can't get wheel filters contrary to the fact i get every other tool i need to live in this world (unlimited opiate prescriptions for my disability, unlimited sterile syringes/needles/swabs/vials/saline). i don't see where it is actually explained here why a hepa filter will not suffice. Fibers breaking off could be a problem(priming may help, or maybe not) Pressure could be a problem(a larger pored filter can be used first, or maybe not) It being for 'air particles' could be a problem (or maybe also liquids can pass through, if so it may not filter liquids as well as it does air - maybe, or maybe not) Being un-sterilized could be a problem (or maybe it can be sterilized, i imagine in boiling water for 10 minutes - or maybe not, and if sterilized will it continue to filter up to .3 microns - maybe, or maybe not) . Using a sterilized hole punch to pop out enough filter to stack into a syringe seems like an alternative to wheel filters. .3 microns i believe doesn't filter all bacteria but is certainly better than these people using q-tips. I also can see using n94 surgical mask material in the same fashion. i believe they are .2 microns just as a wheel filter. Im thinking of trying this filter method, but before i do somebody PLEASE explain to me what will happen if i use the hepa filter for 30mg roxicodone pills from mallinckrodt. If you think it WILL work, according to the possibilities listed above, tell me why. And if you think it will NOT work, according to the possibilities listed above, tell me why. If it works or not, what will .3 microns filter out versus .2 microns bacteria-wise(just curious)? If i ever move out and am able to get the wheel filters, do they filter ms contin from watson(abg/60) or mallinckrodt(M/60), that wax matrix scares the shit out of me no matter what is used to filter, or does the morphine actually release itself from the wax molecules?

also is 120mg roxicodone x 6hrs + 120mg ms contin x 12hrs a ton? I just tell myself "ehh tons of people take double that probably."

captain_heroin please help me out here, you seem like you know your stuff, i'm big on safety and just had an idea to try that filter method because i cannot get wheel filters no matter what. thanks and please reply!

 

[Captain.Heroin]

pink_floyd - what country do you live in? As far as I am aware, for citizens of Australia, Canada, the UK, and the US should be able to acquire micron filters.

The amount of pain killers you are on is not excessive. It's certainly a lot, compared to people without opiate tolerances, but you are right - there are enough people who take double that if not more.

 

[Cane2theLeft]

^I'd be hesitant to really gauge your doses at all... saying its a ton and no one uses that much isn't accurate but saying its not that much is probably just helping to rationalize. Sorry to get a little psychoanalytic on you, but that's my field.

And I think this is a good topic to discuss... certainly there is no question that proper micron/wheel filters are superior, but perhaps discussing relative safety of this hepa filtration to other options like cotton is worthwhile. Unfortunately, I can't knowledgeably comment on this personally, but anyone else?

 

[pink_floyd04]

ic thanks...ye man im in the states i live in a home where its impossible for mail with my name on it to not be opened by somebody else..i need opiate pain killers because i have severe crohn's disease and have tried every drug treatment from immuno-suppressants to chemotherapy and nothing worked (except prednisone the disgusting steroid with side effects to die for, literally, which is why you can't stay on them. Naturally then when tapered off prednisone i flare up immediately, again, and again). I have no colon now because of a total colectomy, and its just been a living hell. IV is basically the only way to go for me anymore, in the hospital obviously dilaudid is used and this is the only ROA that works sufficiently anymore for breakthrough pain. IV breakthrough shots and massive amounts of ER Morphine is the only way to keep myself sane and somewhat comfortable.

ANYWAYS about the HEPA filters, whenever you have time, basically this is the only idea i can come up with to sufficiently micron filter a shot of roxicodone. I refuse to use only cotton although i've wasted pills backloading with cotton and filtering like 7x over with cold water and also letting particulate float to the bottom of the barrel, and only dispensing the liquid out of the syringe about a 1/4 inch b4 i got to the particulate, leaving it completely behind(besides the microscopic stuff, which is the point of safe filtering so what i did is pointless anyways). Yea so although i had a crystal clear solution i backed out and THEN had an idea to use the HEPA filter..........

i was going to use the 7x cotton filtered roxi shot and then: hole punch HEPA air filter paper (like 3-4 pieces), stuff/backload in syringe; then plunge this roxi shot into a sterile syringe. (i didnt do this step because the HEPA filter wasn't yet sterilized and i wanted to get advice first also)

SO basically i have one question Captain - - - an alternative wheel filter (maybe?) - - - Q: If i sterilize a few hole punched pieces of a HEPA .3 micron filter in boiling sterile water and load it into a sterile syringe (after filtering with sterile cotton from pharmacy to avoid a possible jam) and then plunge this and backload another sterile syringe, will this be a safe shot? If not, why..

i would try this right now and if it turned out crystal clear i would just do it, but i do not want to waste pills if it jams up, and also i dont wan't any other possibilities to happen such as i don't really know about the HEPA paper, if it's fibers come apart in liquid in abundance or if it cant be sterilized/isn't sterilized properly by me...i'm outa here for now i'll check back later whenever you have time to reply Captain...hey everybody else can reply too, help me out!

thanks

 

[Captain.Heroin]

ic thanks...ye man im in the states i live in a home where its impossible for mail with my name on it to not be opened by somebody else..

Is that because you are physically unable to visit the Post Office, in order to open your own Post Office Box (aka P.O. Box)?

This is how people who live with their parents, even under 18 years of age, can still get micron filters (...and whatever else you want mail orderd).

If you are physically disabled to the point where someone would have to open your mail for you, because you are simply unable to do so yourself (including unable to go to the post office) then that would make sense, and is the only situation in my mind, that I could imagine you being unable to get them.

ANYWAYS about the HEPA filters, whenever you have time, basically this is the only idea i can come up with to sufficiently micron filter a shot of roxicodone. I refuse to use only cotton although i've wasted pills backloading with cotton and filtering like 7x over with cold water and also letting particulate float to the bottom of the barrel, and only dispensing the liquid out of the syringe about a 1/4 inch b4 i got to the particulate, leaving it completely behind(besides the microscopic stuff, which is the point of safe filtering so what i did is pointless anyways). Yea so although i had a crystal clear solution i backed out and THEN had an idea to use the HEPA filter..........

i was going to use the 7x cotton filtered roxi shot and then: hole punch HEPA air filter paper (like 3-4 pieces), stuff/backload in syringe; then plunge this roxi shot into a sterile syringe. (i didnt do this step because the HEPA filter wasn't yet sterilized and i wanted to get advice first also)

SO basically i have one question Captain - - - an alternative wheel filter (maybe?) - - - Q: If i sterilize a few hole punched pieces of a HEPA .3 micron filter in boiling sterile water and load it into a sterile syringe (after filtering with sterile cotton from pharmacy to avoid a possible jam) and then plunge this and backload another sterile syringe, will this be a safe shot? If not, why..

i would try this right now and if it turned out crystal clear i would just do it, but i do not want to waste pills if it jams up, and also i dont wan't any other possibilities to happen such as i don't really know about the HEPA paper, if it's fibers come apart in liquid in abundance or if it cant be sterilized/isn't sterilized properly by me...i'm outa here for now i'll check back later whenever you have time to reply Captain...hey everybody else can reply too, help me out!

thanks

I'm not sure how to go about sterilizing a HEPA filter (or the parts of it you have hole punched out). I'm not sure if there is a way to do this. With micron filters, I believe you are supposed to boil them for a certain amount of time (someone posted this with a source), though I'm not sure if you could do this with a HEPA filter.

I also am not aware if it would be safe or not to use this. I would have to do more research.

 

[pink_floyd04]

ya i can't really get a p.o. box either, i spend my days in the house because of my crohn's and dealing with surgery..

as to the HEPA filtering, i'm going to research some more on some things about them, also the n94 n95 or n100 surgical masks..using these seems like an alternative to wheel filter if you absolutely just can't get them and are going to iv no matter what..so my conclusion is that it probably will work but i'm not 100%..

basically the HEPA filters i have are about 1/8 inch thick fibrous paper that is said to be .3 microns..i will sterilize them in boiling water for 10 minutes..stack a few of them in a 3ml syringe..cotton filter with sterile cotton(also stuffed in a 3rd 3ml syringe)..then filter with the HEPA loaded syringe..lastly backload a 3rd sterile syringe with a 25g luer lok needle..and go for it..

we'll see i guess how the solution turns out when i do it or if it doesn't jam or something else happens..thanks hit me back if yu find anything else out about this..oh and i really can't believe this topic hasn't been talked about or figured out a long time ago? I cant be the only person who thought of this or actually used this method, it just seems like an ingenious alternative to save money or save your veins from cotton filtered solutions when wheels aren't available.

 

[Cane2theLeft]

^pro-tip: break your posts up into small paragraphs. large paragraphs make it harder to read and some people (especially those nodding who have to close one eye to read) might just pass it up for this reason.

I think this technique has some promise... to reiterate, I won't claim its as good as properly produced, professional micron filters, but I could theoretically see advantages over cotton filters, cigarette filters, etc that are common.

 

[pink_floyd04]

thanks man ya i see yur point haha it looks ridiculous to me right now...just new at this whole thinng i got yu though

 

[Cane2theLeft]

^no, I'm with you... I had never used a forum before I found this place and I did the same thing. Its totally up to you, but you can edit it and add paragraphs break if you want to.

 

[pink_floyd04]

i was going to edit it, but stopped bcuz yu had arrowed up to what was 'the ridiculously' long paragraph..ill edit it up tho or just shorten it up bcuz i got my answer..i don't really need to post somethin that long again i was jus explaining my situation to captain h...so hows this thing work anyways how many moderators are on this? and do you guys go into every thread to check it out bcuz it seems like you guys answered me really quickly, or are there diff. mods in each diff kinda forum?

 

[xxallgoodxx]

I don't know what kind of HEPA filter you have exactly, but I don't think I would trust the HEPA filter to filter liquid at the same micron level as when it is used to filter air. Ideally, you need a 0.22 micron wheel filter that is made of a material that won't react to whatever you intend to filter. The 0.22 micron filter size is the standard used in the pharmaceutical industry currently to sterilize liquid as far as removing bacteria. 0.45 Micron use to be the minimum size said to remove all bacteria, but there was at least one strain of bacteria that could get through them. Hence the switch to using 0.22 micron filters. No filter can remove any viruses though, since they are so small (much smaller than bacteria cells). Also, some filters are hydrophobic (repel water) and some are hydrophilic (absorbs water). You don't want to use a filter that is made of a hydrophilic material to filter a liquid, because you don't want the filter material to absorb the water. That could also cause it to break apart. You will also lose some of the drug you are filtering.

Good Luck

I am not a licensed medical practitioner, so my statements are always only based on my readings, observations, and experience. Always get licensed medical attention for a medical problem.

 

[Cane2theLeft]

^Really great information and its kind of sad, but I didn't consider that something designed to filter air might not filter liquid with the same precision.

...so hows this thing work anyways how many moderators are on this? and do you guys go into every thread to check it out bcuz it seems like you guys answered me really quickly, or are there diff. mods in each diff kinda forum?

Each forum has a set number of moderators based on how busy they are... as the second busiest forum on the site (I believe), we have 5. Then some senior mods who oversee us, one of which is one of our five (leftwing) and others who primarily moderate other forums and don't post in here as much. There are also admin that oversee everything.

Since I'm just an OD moderator I can only mod in here, in other forums on BL nothing is different for me. Senior mods and admin have their mod privileges/tools in all forums.

It just happened today that multiple mods were around and got to your thread quickly and I've been bored today so posting a lot... its rare things happen that quick usually. Sometimes there are stretches during a day when no mods are around for a while.

 

[pink_floyd04]

ok i see cane..

"all good" : yea i def. considered the fact that using a liquid with an air filter would lower the integrity of it's micron filtration from .3 to unknown. I won't be using this method although it is still probably better than cotton, but i wouldn't use cotton again anyways after learning of wheel filters.