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[Documentary] DMT the Spirit Molecule

^Not very helpful or informative lily. You got arthritis in yer typing fingers? If not, how about telling us exactly in what manner Martin Ball is a moron... I'm sure we'll find it entertaining... his name certainly is moronic, thats for sure, hehe... there's a start, so go ahead, lets hear more reasons...
 
The ego-destroying capabilities of DMT seem to be overrated, if this thread is any indication.

Looking forward to seeing the film, regardless of whether or not it teaches me something I did or did not learn whilst in hyperspace.
 
DwayneHoover said:
^Not very helpful or informative lily. You got arthritis in yer typing fingers? If not, how about telling us exactly in what manner Martin Ball is a moron..
Click to expand...

Fine... There are too many examples to list, so I'll limit myself to a handful.

For starters, he expends a considerable amount of energy tearing down McKenna (who is also ridiculous) for seeing machine elves during every experience of DMT. Ball then goes on to tell you that, unless you see "energy" as a manifestation of God every time you do 5-MEO, you're doing it wrong.

He tells you to not cross your arms or legs while doing 5-MEO, and that energy discharges can cause "energy burns" on your toenails. I like to think I am relatively open minded, but come on.

He also thinks people are made up of numerous "infinity loops" stacked on top of one another.

And he has a great little chapter that starts: "Though I am currently the only person that I know of that can do this, what you are eventually headed for is the ability to perform what I call fractal energetic yoga". Uh huh.

Check out Ball's "Being Human" and his article on McKenna: http://www.realitysandwich.com/terence_dmt Full of ad hominem attacks, by a guy who appears to be not a very good writer or a very deep thinker.

I am all for people making up their own little fairy tales around their drug experiences. Just don't be enough of a dick to mock some other guy for doing the same thing.
 
_lily_ said:
Martin Ball is a moron.
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LOL, I get that impression too, but his podcast guests are very good.

Martin is very full of himself and overuses absolutes. It irks me that he believes his view is the only one, and he expends a lot of time & energy trying to convince his listeners of this so-called 'fact'. Oh well... he's only human. ;)
 
Listening said:
The ego-destroying capabilities of DMT seem to be overrated, if this thread is any indication.
Click to expand...

Ya know.. I've been wondering about that myself.. In my experience, DMT is the ultimate ego-destroyer.. But yeah, apparently there are people who can do it and still remain strongly attached to their ego.. Which I don't quite get.. But I guess everyone is different.

For example.. I can seldom take LSD or mushrooms just to have a "good time". For me it always ends up being an incredibly spiritual experience, whether that's my intention or not. However, I know many people who really do just take those things for a good time, and that ends up being pretty much all they get out of it.. I've never understood how some people can use these things and not have a spiritual experience, but I guess everyone is different..

Although, for DMT.. I think the route of administration has a large effect on the outcome.. Smoking DMT has been called psychedelic crack, because of it's short duration. I guess I can understand how someone can smoke it and think it's just a crazy trip, but I can honestly say I don't know anyone who's drank a good Ayahuasca brew and been the same afterwards. And while I guess smoking DMT can be great, I think it requires oral ingestion to get the real experience out of it..

When you smoke it, if things get crazy, it's still going to be over soon.. But try drinking Ayahuasca, and just as you get scared because you forget you've taken anything and can't figure out why you believe you're about to die, then you realize you still have at least 4 hours to go! That can be a terrifying realization.

And although it might not be the safest way to put it, I resonate a lot with McKenna's belief that if you've never had a bad trip, you're not taking enough. :)
 
_lily_ said:
Fine... There are too many examples to list, so I'll limit myself to a handful.

For starters, he expends a considerable amount of energy tearing down McKenna (who is also ridiculous) for seeing machine elves during every experience of DMT. Ball then goes on to tell you that, unless you see "energy" as a manifestation of God every time you do 5-MEO, you're doing it wrong.

He tells you to not cross your arms or legs while doing 5-MEO, and that energy discharges can cause "energy burns" on your toenails. I like to think I am relatively open minded, but come on.

He also thinks people are made up of numerous "infinity loops" stacked on top of one another.

And he has a great little chapter that starts: "Though I am currently the only person that I know of that can do this, what you are eventually headed for is the ability to perform what I call fractal energetic yoga". Uh huh.

Check out Ball's "Being Human" and his article on McKenna: http://www.realitysandwich.com/terence_dmt Full of ad hominem attacks, by a guy who appears to be not a very good writer or a very deep thinker.

I am all for people making up their own little fairy tales around their drug experiences. Just don't be enough of a dick to mock some other guy for doing the same thing.
Click to expand...

Very well-put... you made your case rather well... that was pretty interesting! Food for thought and maybe more discussion. And thanks for the link, too, I'll take a gander at it. (There now, was that so hard? ;) )
 
digital_phreedom said:
And although it might not be the safest way to put it, I resonate a lot with McKenna's belief that if you've never had a bad trip, you're not taking enough. :)
Click to expand...

HaHa! I think there's alot to this. McKenna may have frequently sounded like a loon, but I think much of that was a kind of psychedelic clown act he was putting on deliberately to be entertaining, attract attention, stimulate reaction & thought, and create a vivid memorable character in the media... Who remembers some bland droning academician?

There's lots of wisdom in what McKenna did, despite how silly he seemed much of the time.
 
digital_phreedom said:
Ya know.. I've been wondering about that myself.. In my experience, DMT is the ultimate ego-destroyer.. But yeah, apparently there are people who can do it and still remain strongly attached to their ego.. Which I don't quite get.. But I guess everyone is different.

For example.. I can seldom take LSD or mushrooms just to have a "good time". For me it always ends up being an incredibly spiritual experience, whether that's my intention or not. However, I know many people who really do just take those things for a good time...
Click to expand...

Careful here. Using psychedelics for spiritual purposes may be just the ego-fuel that I was alluding to, particularly if you think that it's in some way "more worthy" than using them for entertainment purposes, "like others do." Is appreciating art for entertainment purposes less worthy an act than appreciating art for spiritual purposes? Maybe, but think carefully before judging others; you don't know who they really are or what they really need.

I use psychedelics primarily for personal growth, so I understand the attitude and am certainly not immune to it. Nevertheless, I think it's wrong-minded and counter-productive: personal growth gets distorted and mashed with personal inflation. This partially explains the paradox of the large number of ego-softening drug users who possess disproportionately large egos.
 
^^
You do make a good point. To each his own I guess.. However please don't mistake me, I'm not "judging" anybody. I was just saying that with the way psychedelics affect me personally, it makes it hard for me to understand how some others don't get the same kind of spiritual experience I do, because to me it just seems unavoidable. I wasn't trying to put anyone down or be rude, just musing I guess.

But yeah, you make a good point.
 
_lily_ said:
For starters, he expends a considerable amount of energy tearing down McKenna (who is also ridiculous) for seeing machine elves during every experience of DMT. Ball then goes on to tell you that, unless you see "energy" as a manifestation of God every time you do 5-MEO, you're doing it wrong.
Click to expand...

Neither of these guys understand their own psych or the concept of infinite new plasticity that comes with a timeline that we all share, lol.
 
Both of them are claiming there to be a boundary or standard type of psychedelic experience that they actually expect others to agree on? (Everybody and everything has traits, but if you think you can always guess how one thing mixes with another, keep mixing whatever the hell it is that you are!) Shades of grey times shades of grey forever!
 
Right. Thinking in absolutes is a dead end. If there really were absolute answers that were identical for all observers, then all observers would know and agree upon these answers. But this is obviously not the case... everyone's experience, while having similarities, is uniquely his/her own.
 
Termino said:
If you can, check out the Entheogenic Evolution podcasts, especially the most recent few.
http://entheogenic.podomatic.com

And here's Martin Ball, Ph.D's website:
http://www.martinball.net
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This guy, Martin Ball, espouses that he has established a singular definition of “reality” ( as far as I can understand him )... I am reminded of a lil’ saying: “not this, not this”, as we may seek to label and define, through our own limited tools of perception, ( and thus: sheer arrogance ) As a general rule, for me, anybody or thing that states “This is Reality” is looking to make you a believer in something that supports HIM, and is not on a sincere quest for Truth.

My snake oil cabinet has been filled many times.

“Reality” remains a concept in flux.

Best to you all...

-Bryan in Seattle
 
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