• 💊 OTHER DRUGS 💊 Welcome Guest
    Posting Rules Bluelight Rules
    Notable Threads 1 Notable Threads 2
    Dangerous Combos Addiction Support
    Emergency Services Benzo Guide v.1
    Addiction Stories Scary Case Studies
    Biology, Pharmacology & Drugs 101
  • Select Your Topic Then Scroll Down
    Alcohol Bupe Benzos
    Cocaine Heroin Opioids
    RCs Stimulants Misc
    Harm Reduction All Topics Gabapentinoids
    Tired of your habit? Struggling to cope?
    Want to regain control or get sober?
    Visit our Recovery Support Forums

Bupe Suboxone/Buprenorphine FAQ & Megathread v2; 2010

Status
Not open for further replies.
Well thanks for all the info guys. I'm going to try and wait 36 hours before taking Sub and plan on doing a few Tamzepam for the last 12 hours to help me through till then. I'm going to take 1mg at a time and try to settle on a total of 4mg.

How long will I need to be on Subs for my body to clear all the gear and methadone before I am settled enough to begin reducing and going on a basis of 4mg of Subutex how long would it take me to taper roughly?
 
I almost like the fact that buprenorphine is a hit and miss drug for people. For one, a lot of people don't see it as valuable, so it's always going to be around in surplus. Also, it's kind of like a "one man's trash is another man's treasure" sort of thing. It's like an acquired taste. Kind of like how other people would thoroughly dislike half of the psychedelic experiences I have had.
 
Captain.Heroin said:
I almost like the fact that buprenorphine is a hit and miss drug for people. For one, a lot of people don't see it as valuable, so it's always going to be around in surplus. Also, it's kind of like a "one man's trash is another man's treasure" sort of thing. It's like an acquired taste. Kind of like how other people would thoroughly dislike half of the psychedelic experiences I have had.
Click to expand...

thats very true, i have never thought of it that way.
i jsut wish that the people who DO think of it as "trash" would quit treating the people who like it, as if they are wasting there life and are doomed to be on it for hte rest of there life or else deal with the worst withdrawals ever.
 
Captain.Heroin said:
I almost like the fact that buprenorphine is a hit and miss drug for people. For one, a lot of people don't see it as valuable, so it's always going to be around in surplus. Also, it's kind of like a "one man's trash is another man's treasure" sort of thing. It's like an acquired taste. Kind of like how other people would thoroughly dislike half of the psychedelic experiences I have had.
Click to expand...

Yeah for sure, because I run out of my script each month and I'm able to find some for very affordable prices in between refills. Life would suck if there was a huge demand for subs...
 
shanefrommaine said:
Yeah for sure, because I run out of my script each month and I'm able to find some for very affordable prices in between refills. Life would suck if there was a huge demand for subs...
Click to expand...

damn, you actually use MORE than your prescribed?

if you dont mind me asking, why do you do that? do you feel better on a much higher dose or something?
 
jamesBrown said:
damn, you actually use MORE than your prescribed?

if you dont mind me asking, why do you do that? do you feel better on a much higher dose or something?
Click to expand...

Some doctors taper their patients way too early (like the doctor thinks all patients can be tapered & off within 1-2 months of treatment), and other doctors get really bitchy about prescribing a decent amount, especially if you don't come in for a month or two (even if it's because you simply cannot afford to visit the doctor...)
 
^^ ^^ nice, I am glad to hear more and more doctors are waking up to the idea of maintenance rather than just detox or replacement therapy that only lasts a few months. I've been off and on maintenance for too many years and I've stopped thinking in terms of getting off for good. The odds are just too stacked against us....my doctor recently showed me a paper stating that well over 90% of chronic opioid users go back to opioids within a year after trying abstinence based therapy. Last time I went off buprenorphine I tapered down to .5mg a day and the withdrawals were very doable. Still signifigant, but manageable. But this time, like the time before and the time before that, the gaping hole left in the soul (some call it PAWS) became too much and after 9 months I went back on buprenorphine. PAWS is very real, and that is why most of us will be on some sort of opioid the rest of our lives. Sad but true. I spent a few years in prison, and even this drug free state was not enough to repair my brain. Anybody that claims to have found a "method" to completely avoid PAWS probably hasn't ever been off the drugs long enough to experience it, or wasnt on the drugs long enough;) My current Dr has no problems with indefinite maintenance, and is wise enough to acknowledge that many will require such.

rolls_ said:
fair enough but I am on only 0.8mg a day, splitting the dose up into morning and pm might be worth a shot though, I'll give it a go tomorrow.
Click to expand...

This will make a world of difference. It might be a little tough at first, but I found that once I got below 1.5 mg I needed to divide my dose. If you are constantly aware of the ticking clock it aint working right. My dr used to stress that the most important thing was to "make the medication a non-issue" and I have taken this to heart. The physical healing is one thing, but not near as important as the psychic. When we are always worrying about the dose, too high, too low, wearing off, repeated i.v. shots, etc, we are repeating the same thought cycles that were active during active use. This prevents the real important psychic healing from taking place. And I have experienced the ill side of this, and I am trying things a little differently this time.

good luck!<3

cheers:)
 
jamesBrown said:
damn, you actually use MORE than your prescribed?

if you dont mind me asking, why do you do that? do you feel better on a much higher dose or something?
Click to expand...

A lot of people do feel better on a higher rather than lower dose. Some are able to maintain on the low doses, but the "less is more" approach doesnt work for ALOT of people. This has been rehashed many times over the past few years on bluelight, resulting in some pretty fierce arguments. What is established is that buprenorphinne is dose dependent in a linear fashion, meaning more is more. Some people find the inverse to be true, hence the less is more approach. Buprenorphine, very much like people, is some complex stuff.;)

For a lot of people, especially those coming from very serious habits and long term use (years and years) no amount of buprenorphine is enough. They reach the ceiling dose and still experience alot of withdrawal and cravings. These people are often better off on maintenance on a full agonist, like methadone. Buprenorphine has been a godsend for this huge influx of younger people that got into pharmaceuticals and/or heroin, and are lucky enough to have a chance at recovery after only a few years in the trenches. The numbers are staggering...and luckily Suboxone came out at roughly the same time. But it just doesnt cut it for the more grizzled veterans;)

cheers
 
So let me ask you guys -- JB especially -- a question or two to see if i understand you correctly.

Currently, I am taking 2-4 mg per day IN. I usually do 1 mg in the morning, then 1 mg in the afternoon, then 1 mg later in the evening. I'm trying to get the most "euphoria" and energy boost that i possibly can, and even when i was taking 8 mg/day SL, breaking up the dose seemed to help A LOT. I want to get down to the "superlow" doses like you guys -- ideally .5 mg, twice a day would be my goal.

Currently i'm not getting much "euphoria" or even energy kick at all. Part of it is that, addict that i am (was), i want to keep doing lines as long as i am awake (this is why i say 2-4mg, sometimes i do a couple extra .5 mg lines at various points, sometimes it's more like 2 mg in one shot, etc -- my lines are only vaguely specific); part of it is that I am also trying to keep the cravings for any other drugs as far away as possible.

Some days i get euphoria, some days not; sometimes i get it from 1 mg, sometimes 1.5, sometimes 2 -- it's really hard for me to tell, honestly.

Do you think that the best thing i can do is take, say, as close to 1 mg as possible, in the morning, and then again in the evening? And sort of force myself to do THAT and ONLY THAT? (it's VERY HARD to keep from doing more if i get no euphoria & very little energy boost) And are you saying I need to keep this up for the better part of a week, and then at the end i will start getting more euphoria? How long should the "euphoria" part last, ideally? And would it be even better to get down to .5 mg twice a day? And keep that up for, again, the better part of a week? I REALLY want this to work, but i'm not getting much euphoria & it's not lasting me long enough to keep from doing more before my scheduled time. Cravings are down, which is the whole point, so i COULD keep doing it my way, but i really wanna get to where you guys are. Do i need to just sorta sweat it out for a week at 1 mg AM & 1 mg PM? Or is it possible that i need to take 4 mg a day? Don't forget, this is IN, so my bioavailability is less than you IVers.

Please -- any help &/or advice would be REALLY appreciated.

Peace,
Covert
 
amanitadine said:
^^ ^^ nice, I am glad to hear more and more doctors are waking up to the idea of maintenance rather than just detox or replacement therapy that only lasts a few months. I've been off and on maintenance for too many years and I've stopped thinking in terms of getting off for good. The odds are just too stacked against us....my doctor recently showed me a paper stating that well over 90% of chronic opioid users go back to opioids within a year after trying abstinence based therapy. Last time I went off buprenorphine I tapered down to .5mg a day and the withdrawals were very doable. Still signifigant, but manageable. But this time, like the time before and the time before that, the gaping hole left in the soul (some call it PAWS) became too much and after 9 months I went back on buprenorphine. PAWS is very real, and that is why most of us will be on some sort of opioid the rest of our lives. Sad but true. I spent a few years in prison, and even this drug free state was not enough to repair my brain. Anybody that claims to have found a "method" to completely avoid PAWS probably hasn't ever been off the drugs long enough to experience it, or wasnt on the drugs long enough;) My current Dr has no problems with indefinite maintenance, and is wise enough to acknowledge that many will require such.
Click to expand...

That's very true, it's kind of sad to think that some of us - probably a large portion of us, will have to be on opioids for the rest of our lives. Then again, most people wouldn't frown upon someone who would need to be on a anti-depressant for the rest of their lives. Our chemical imbalances make us who we are I guess. ;)
 
I also use to feel crap at night time but since I changed my sleeping patterns I be awake during the night and sleep during the day...Basically I wake up around 5 in the evening and sleep around 8-9am..Ever since I done that I have not felt any sort of crappyness at all...Am on 1mgs and been on Subutex for 5 years, started from 12mgs..I know many folks got work and other priorities so thus can't sleep during the day but it's something about night-time while being on sub...I even heard few folks say they didn't have trouble with restless legs if they slept during the day after when they came off Bup! The advantage with me is I have support, time, easy life-style, money etc so I basically I don't have any worries or any other priorities other then to keep tapering and sleeping when I want and chilling when I want, this together with Exercise is helping me and has given me no problems at all tapering....Question is how would I feel once off Subutex!

P.S James-Brown, you ain't off sub are you? so how do u know you how to deal with PAWS and jumping from sub? mind my ignorance I've just never had time to check posts/threads of you so would you mind filling me in!

thanks!!!......
 
no one is answering my questions. . . was hoping to figure this out TONIGHT, so i know what to do with my doses. gonna do a mg right now, after 1 mg at 11 am, .5 mg at 2 pm, .5 mg at 6 pm. . . guess that makes 3 mg all day. . . i understand that some people respond to different doses, plus there's the whole BA question -- 1 mg IN is not the same as 1 mg SL is not the same as 1 mg IV. . . kinda want to get to "IV Land" just so that i know what the EXACT relationship is between what i take & what i process -- BA is quite a bit easier to calculate if you IV the stuff, this i KNOW to be true. . .

oh well, here we go . . . i guess what i REALLY need to do is keep better track of what i am ingesting, both WHEN as well as HOW MUCH (approx). . . so, i'm gonna take 1 mg right now. will let you know how it hits me a little bit later, when i come back from playin' pool and drinking some beer -- had 4 beers already, over last 3+ hours. . .

would you guys let me know what you think? my curiosity as far as what you think is KILLING me. . .

peace,
covert
 
destiny_days said:
I also use to feel crap at night time but since I changed my sleeping patterns I be awake during the night and sleep during the day...Basically I wake up around 5 in the evening and sleep around 8-9am..Ever since I done that I have not felt any sort of crappyness at all...Am on 1mgs and been on Subutex for 5 years, started from 12mgs..I know many folks got work and other priorities so thus can't sleep during the day but it's something about night-time while being on sub...I even heard few folks say they didn't have trouble with restless legs if they slept during the day after when they came off Bup! The advantage with me is I have support, time, easy life-style, money etc so I basically I don't have any worries or any other priorities other then to keep tapering and sleeping when I want and chilling when I want, this together with Exercise is helping me and has given me no problems at all tapering....Question is how would I feel once off Subutex!

P.S James-Brown, you ain't off sub are you? so how do u know you how to deal with PAWS and jumping from sub? mind my ignorance I've just never had time to check posts/threads of you so would you mind filling me in!
Click to expand...

I actually am not taking subs right now. I stop taking them from time to time and eventually get back on them....i do this because this makes the highs and energy boosts, much more "potent" when I finally do start taking them again.......i also do this to make sure I am still showing no signs of addiction or dependance. And so far, I have not yet had any withdrawals at all. I take long breaks sometimes even, not just a few days.....
I also think PAWS has alot to do with someones mental addiction to a drug that they get use to making them happy or "ok" over long periods of time. This, in my opinion, is what results in PAWS when someone gets off of the drug(in this case suboxone)......they are so use to having a drug make them happy and allright that its hard for them to handle living life without it. But since I dont use my suboxone to keep me OK(as in I feel perfectly "OK" when I dont take it).....I see no reason to cause PAWS and consequently, have not experienced any PAWS. I have, however, experienced PAWS for a short period of time a couple years ago when I took a break form heroin. So i know what PAWS are like.
I believe they are a direct result of mental addiction/dependance on a drug. But since im not mentally or physically addicted to suboxone, PAWS is something I dont have to worry about. I feel just as happy and confident in my ability to live a normal happy life without my suboxone as I do when im taking my suboxone. I am very lucky that I have manipulated my doses and tapers to the point where I can enjoy this drug in the best way possible while yet not experiencing most of the negative side effects it causes so many people.
 
james

if im taking 2mg once a day with a BA of 30 percent thats 0.6mg thats actualy working.

and ur dosing 0.5mg several times a day with a BA of 100 percent.... so tech im dosing less????
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top