Bupe Suboxone/Buprenorphine FAQ & Megathread v2; 2010

[jamesBrown]

My experience was similar to yours with my first subs dr... 5 min appointments and no drug screens. Got 28 day take homes after 1 month. Now I have another dr and he sees me about 15 mins and does a urine screen every month.... I like the 2nd dr best because he gives me benzos too and the first wouldn't. So I'm ok with the trade off. It keeps my pot smoking to a minimum of about 1 week a month too which is good and bad.

I agree, the monthly drug tests really keeps my pot smoking to a minimum(allthough the 2 seperate probationary drug tests I have to take keeps me on my toes as well).

 

[jamesBrown]

The counselor I spoke with didn't say much to me -- ALL HE DID WAS TALK ABOUT THE NEW FILM. He knew everything, and even mentioned the discount card. He also told me that they are trying to rid normal PCP's from the Suboxone program due to pressure from the DEA. He said LOTS of Dr's are getting in big trouble and that the DEA believes that Sub should only be prescribed by psychiatrists. He also said there is a huge liability for under-educated Dr's prescribing Sub. How much of that is true, I don't know... Just 10-5'n what I was told.

For what it's worth...

I would imagine that a doctor who isnt certified to prescribe suboxone but does it anyway would have to face extrmely harsh consequences. I would hope so, I dont think any of us want a lax medical system....that can lead to a general drop in medical care overall.

 

[unnie]

I will post a thread in the near future about my life with heroin -> subutex as my biggest enemies and best friends at the same time. I'm sure you will learn a lot from it, as well as I'm going to, this being the first time I'm going to face the pain in writing it. A good name for it might as will be "Nearly 10 years of hell"..

 

[cballhp]

Hey Captain do any of the chemicals in the inactives of the strips you looked up gel up that you know of?

I ask because on another forum there is talk that as the strip dissolves in your mouth it gums up. Below is one of the quotes about it:

I popped them in under my tongue as usual and they gripped to the lining of my mouth good. They stuck there and dissolved fast, but it ends up a sticky goo that almost tastes worse in your mouth.

They are claiming that it is similar to the way some pills gel and they are speculating that it was done on purpose so you cannot IV em, thus fitting into the claim all the Reps. are making about them being much less abusable.

 

[jamesBrown]

I will post a thread in the near future about my life with heroin -> subutex as my biggest enemies and best friends at the same time. I'm sure you will learn a lot from it, as well as I'm going to, this being the first time I'm going to face the pain in writing it. A good name for it might as will be "Nearly 10 years of hell"..

I think thats a great idea...to post about your lifes experience with heroin and subutex....

but you shouldn't do it in this forum....the mods will just move it anyway....you shoul post it in..."trip reports", or maybe even the "dark side" or "drug culture"

 

[jamesBrown]

Hey Captain do any of the chemicals in the inactives of the strips you looked up gel up that you know of?

I ask because on another forum there is talk that as the strip dissolves in your mouth it gums up. Below is one of the quotes about it:



They are claiming that it is similar to the way some pills gel up so you cant IV em.

No they dont gell up....atleast not in the way pills gell up when you try to IV them. My point being, you can safely mix the strips with water and they wont gell up.

Have you ever had a listerine strip?....it kind of feels like it gells a little when you put it in your mouth, especially if it gets under your tounge and around your gums/teeth.

there are no ingredients in the new strips that would cause them to gell in a water solution(im assuming its for IV use).

 

[cballhp]

No they dont gell up....atleast not in the way pills gell up when you try to IV them. My point being, you can safely mix the strips with water and they wont gell up.

Have you ever had a listerine strip?....it kind of feels like it gells a little when you put it in your mouth, especially if it gets under your tounge and around your gums/teeth.

there are no ingredients in the new strips that would cause them to gell in a water solution(im assuming its for IV use).

thanks James, I thought as much but was not 100% on it. Eventually it would all have to dissolve or it wouldn't be a sublingual product I guess..

 

[SubDude]

ya its sorta bs, but methadone was a FUCK no, not doing a 3 year program, and thats clinic every day of it. two months for a take home aint that bad.

In the US... federal regulations allow 3 day take-homes after 6 mos continuous treatment... which would include clean urine screens and compliance with other "rules".

You can get weekly methadone "take homes" after 9 mos of continuous treatment...

After 1 year of continuous treatment, a patient may be given a maximum 2-week supply of take-homes.

After 2 years of continuous treatment, a patient may be given a maximum one-month supply of take-homes, but must make monthly visits.

These are US federal laws but [I believe] state laws can trump these as far as giving less [not more] take-homes and they can require more "clean time" to get to the upper levels.
=================

Suboxone is far less federally regulated since you can get monthly take-homes right from the start and get your prescription filled at your neighborhood pharmacy.

 

[jamesBrown]

thanks James, I thought as much but was not 100% on it. Eventually it would all have to dissolve or it wouldn't be a sublingual product I guess..

exactly....thats the kind of reasoning skills I wish EVERYONE utilized here on Bl.

 

[SubDude]

If these "strips" come in packets and you can cut your dose from the strip [after opening]... I'd be interested to know if the rest of the strip will have the same longevity as the tabs.. or will they need to be sealed again to maintain the potency??

 

[jamesBrown]

If these "strips" come in packets and you can cut your dose from the strip [after opening]... I'd be interested to know if the rest of the strip will have the same longevity as the tabs.. or will they need to be sealed again to maintain the potency??

I bet they dont last as long as the tablets do once they are opened. They have a SHITLOAD less inactive ingredients to "cover" and "protect" the suboxone. Think about it, these new strips are TINY and thin, yet they contain the exact same amount of bupe and nalaxone as the pills do. that means you can think of the strips as if they were the pills, just without all the filler and inactives. I mean, there ARE inactives in the strip, but its gotta be like 1/50th of the weight of the inactives in the pills.

 

[SubDude]

The WORST thing you can do is try to show a dr up on your knowledge of drugs. nobody likes a know it all. consequently nobody likes having their script dropped or mitigated. hehe.

I agree... I've found the best way to get benzos from a subs dr is tell them you get jittery around others in public and sometimes sweat and are short of breath... then ask them if they have a "nerve pill" to help... thats what worked for me with my current dr. The previous one... I told that needed valiums because that helped in the past... she gave me an anti-depressant and wouldn't budge. Now I get clonazepam... as my "nerve pill".

Most dr's don't want you to tell them [or sugest] what to prescribe. Playing dumb is the best strategy.

 

[SubDude]

I bet they dont last as long as the tablets do once they are opened.

I suspect the same... I guess it will be like the pills though [with regards to publishing true shelf time] and we'll just need to "trial and error" it??

 

[jamesBrown]

I suspect the same... I guess it will be like the pills though [with regards to publishing true shelf time] and we'll just need to "trial and error" it??

I bet the strips would last even longer than the pills if they arent opened, but once they are opened, im pretty sure the decomposition would begin MUCH quicker than with the pills.

But i try to think of these strips as a good thing, just in case one day my doctor forces me onto them...

if the strips are so tiny and yet are still water soluble, that means you can IV them even easier, with MUCH less cut. That helps alot especially if you dont use a mcron filter.

 

[Deveel]

Its kind of ironic... getting on suboxone to stop abusing drugs, but then abusing suboxone which was prescribed to stop a abusing drugs. Why not just take a higher dose the proper way than trying to up bioavailability by snorting or iving subs?

Not bashing you guys I just think its ironic.

 

[homeydontplaythat]

using a different roa does not ential abuse. you cant get high on suboxone if you have an opiod tolerance.

 

[jamesBrown]

Its kind of ironic... getting on suboxone to stop abusing drugs, but then abusing suboxone which was prescribed to stop a abusing drugs. Why not just take a higher dose the proper way than trying to up bioavailability by snorting or giving subs?

Not bashing you guys I just think its ironic.

I think you misunderstand this whole situation. You should do some reading in the previous suboxone megathreads before you start making statements like that.

If you take a higher dose of suboxone it will lose its euphoric effects. Only doses UNDER 1-2mg's can cause euphoria/analgesia/etc....
Buprenorphine works better at lower doses because of its metabolite norbuprenorphine, which is a full agonist like heroin or oxy.

norbuprenorphine has a lower binding affinity to your receptors than buprenorphine does just like most other opiates....this is what causes it to kick any other opiates off of your recpectors when you take it

...so, when you take higher doses of buprenorphine(around 4 mg's or more give or take)...this fills all your receptors up with buprenorphine and leaves no room for the metabolite norbuprenorphine to bind.

but when you take small doses of suboxone....all the buprenorphine fills all the receptors it can until there is no more bupe...but since you took a small dose, you still have open receptors with no bupe on them....this allows the norbuprenorphine(full agonist) to bind to those open receptors, causing some euphoria because its a full agonist as compared to bupenorphine which is only a partial agonist.

Everyone is different and everyone must find there "sweet spot", so to speak, concerning the amount of low dose suboxone to take....you want to take a small amount so that you can still have receptors available for the full agonist norbuprenorphine...but not too small so that your leaving receptors unfilled with neither bupe or norbupe.....understand?

Its alot more complicated than what you obviously think this situation is.
I also dont necessarily IV my suboxone....i do all different types of administration. Just depends on what result I want. theres nothing wrong with IV'ing suboxone as long as you know what your doing...

I recommend doing some more research on the subject so you can know more about what your typing.

***Im also not addicted to my suboxone like how EVERYONE is who take it in higher doses. Because im on a low dose, i can stop taking it ANYTIME with no withdrawals. I think that all those people who take high dose suboxone and who cant get off of it without a LOOOONG taper...those are the people that are "abusing" suboxone more than I am. Those are the people who are addicted to there medication....not me. I live my life happy and enjoy the effects I have taught myself to obtain from low dose suboxone....just because I have knowledge of a bettter way of using a medication, doesnt mean im abusing anything. In fact MORE people should be taking suboxone like me.

 

[homeydontplaythat]

also, why would one think that the films would lend to a faster decomp of bupe? bupe is bupe, that is not changing at all with the new formulation.

the new films will actually lend for even safer IV practice. there will essentially be NO fillers/binders. i dare say you could prep a solution WITHOUT A COTTON and have it be translucent.

 

[jamesBrown]

also, why would one think that the films would lend to a faster decomp of bupe? bupe is bupe, that is not changing at all with the new formulation.

the new films will actually lend for even safer IV practice. there will essentially be NO fillers/binders. i dare say you could prep a solution WITHOUT A COTTON and have it be translucent.

I agree that the films will make it easier to IV, we have actually allready stated that several times earlier...

but I disagree that you think the strips will not decomp faster. Think about it....you said it yourself, the strips barely have any fillers or binders.....and guess what, those fillers and binders are part of what helps protect the bupe thats inside the pill from being exposed to heat/cold/moisture/light/etc....all of which cause decomposition with bupe....but these new strips, once opened, barely have anything protecting them from decomp.....I mean you could do your best to put them back in a storage device and that probably would help alot, but in general, a bupe strip out in the open is exposed to the elements and can be destroyed much quicker than bupe that is protected within a pill.

 

[homeydontplaythat]

im not sure what others think but i have no hesitation in saying that the reason these films have come out is because the patent ran out on an prolificly prescribed medication. there is simply too much money to be made on it, no fucking way are they going to let a generic be scripted more than name brand.

pharmaceutical companies invest SOOOOOOOO much money into formulating retarded ideas to trick drs into thinking the new drug is somehow better, safer, stronger, whatever. it is their livlihood after all. they dont have any fucking interest in anything besides money. they CONTROL this fucking country afterall! i mean cmon. they have lobbyists with pockets that have no bottom, they OWN our presidents and politicians.

anyone with half a brain can see that there is no advantage to these films over tablets. sure they dissolve faster and taste better....but they are not safer by any means. these are the same people that put naloxone in bupe and decried it couldnt be abused...at all. gee, all those clinical trials they did for a medication that HAS ALREADY been around since the 70s didnt show that bupe trumps naloxone at the receptor sites??? you just have to laugh at the situation otherwise you will be left with only two choices - kill yourself or kill the CEO....or do what i do, masturbate until blacking out.