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  • TDS Moderators: AlphaMethylPhenyl | paranoid android

took sub this morning, copped H this afternoon . WTF?

Jake,I started going to NA/A meetings in 1981.I also have been to 13 rehabs (or is it 11?),93 detoxes ,psych units ,halfway houses,etc...As far as the meetings went I got a lot of shame from people because I could not maintain any amount of clean time.People cared for me and got frustrated.

One guy after hearing me bitch about how bad I was urging ,came up to me and said "Adica,I am sick of hearing you complain that you want to get high,here is twenty dollars,go get high".I saw him the next day and he asked where his money was.I said "See this track mark,there is your F'ing 20 dollars".I had had about a month clean.

It is said that you have to want it.I really did but the traitor living in my head,wouldn't allow it.It is a tricky mother-F'er.

OK,now it is 2010.I'm on Suboxone,Xanax and a few other legal drugs.They don't get me high but they help.I've been having massive urges to get high since Saturday.I gave in today and bought 160mg.of Oxycontin.I didn't know where to get heroin and really didn't want to find a cop spot.This was my first "relapse "in about 3 months.

I moved 10 years ago from N.Y. to Ma.,which I consider the land of the crappy expensive drugs..My last rehab diagnosed me as bipolar (which fits),that explained a bit why I couldn't stop with all my effort.

Mania,which I used dope to calm.Then depression,which dope helped me not feel so suicidal.

I stopped going to detoxes decades ago because they became hard to get in to.I,instead,went to psych wards,which would detox me from my addictions. If you went to a hospital and said you were suicidal,they would admit you and legally are not allowed to tell your parents why you are there.The hospitals have never kept me for more then a week except once when I had a nervous breakdown and needed it.

I feel for you.I remember an old boyfriend grabbing me by the throat and asking why I wouldn't stop.I couldn't answer him because I didn't know.

If you are anything like me,my heart breaks for you.The longer you're addicted the more the drugs take from you.Take in any and every way they can.

For decades I just accepted that I was a junky and I would always be that way.OK,I'm legally prescribed pills and do on occasion (like today)F up.But it has gotten better.I'm not homeless anymore and I have food to eat every day.That might not sound like much to other people but it is huge for me.

Please don't give up!I am in my fifties now and still struggle but nothing like before when I was a homeless,starving street junky.And for the people that write him,my example of the guy giving me 20 dollars didn't help.Tough love isn't for everyone.You never know when a person might hear something or see something that jogs them into a moment of clarity.

Jake,my hope for you is that you stay alive long enough for things to change.At my age,I have lost so many good decent people to this thing called addiction.It has robbed me by my own actions (or lack of actions) and robbed me of so many loved ones.

I truly wish the young could learn by the experiences of their elders.Also,the voice in my head is not as bad as it was,but it still sucks.
 
Thanks for sharing . it sucks because the dude who helped me out get enough methadone to last the week said he was gonna hook me up again next week but we got in a fight because he wanted me to spend my last 20 buks on dope for him and i wouldnt do it so now im screwed with that connect.............and i know im gonna be sick and since you have to wait 48 hours to take a sub after using methadone ill prob end up getting bags...............i already feel the obsession , plus money is coming soon so it will be too easy ,,,,,,,,,,,,,id be smart to just stop since its been 4 days of methadone and id prob not be that sick but i dont think the 4 days of takin meth has beeen much diff than 4 days of getting high on dope........thats why im still gonna be sick , i didnt taper right , i just took about 20 -30 mg each day ..............
 
jake99 said:
id be smart to just stop since its been 4 days of methadone and id prob not be that sick but i dont think the 4 days of takin meth has beeen much diff than 4 days of getting high on dope........thats why im still gonna be sick , i didnt taper right , i just took about 20 -30 mg each day ..............
Click to expand...

You would definitely still be sick. You just replaced H with methadone without going down in dose.

You're not going to be able to taper in 4 days and feel 'ok'. It's just not long enough time to even do a taper. Even an extremely rapid taper over 4-6 days would definitely leave you feeling sick and seems like a slight twist on going cold turkey.


If you're going to be on any kind of maintenance you need to stay with it for a more significant period of time.

Being on suboxone or methadone for a few days is only going to help you out in the short term. It's merely a break for a few days where you're using done/sub instead of H, that's it.

One of the main reasons to get on a drug like methadone or suboxone is so you can actually get your shit together. Removing yourself from the mindset, lifestyle, and environment that you're in when you use, and that is currently making you use, is extremely important. Being on done/sub can give you time so you can move beyond that lifestyle. Plus, it's a lot easier to say no to cravings when you've got a month away from using as opposed to 4 days.

Unless all your dealers go to jail four days is not going to do anything. Hell if you went cold turkey, you'd still be sick, so being on methadone for four days wasn't progressing you anywhere other than giving you space away from dope so you can set up some kind of relapse prevention for yourself.


Good luck figuring out what's best for you. At this point it seems like you've been struggling long enough where being on a maintenance program might be the best case for you. Hope everything works out! :)
 
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i know wot your going through there but if you cant get a handle on it your gonna end up were i am,15years down the road of heroin addiction.
i got fuck all except fucked veins and scars all over me body to show for my addiction and obviously an addict from sight. it shows after 15 years of bad livin.
its only gonna get worse mate. now i'll give you the benefit af my experience for wot its worth which is most probably fuck all!!!!
you seem to want to be clean with no pain and no effort which i'm affraid to say is gonna be impossible but...a relatively pain free dtox i can help you with although i fear you wont/cant do it.
get yourself some methadone ok i know you tried but try my way cause it might work as well for you as it did for me you never know. start on as low a dose as you are comfortable on which seems to be 20/30ml stay on that for 4days then you gotta start dropping 2ml every 2or3 days til you get to 5ml then drop 1ml a day.if your uncomfortable go back up2ml for couple of days. i live in uk so i packed my van up and drove to spain and chilled on the beaches down there for few months. i realize this sort of thing is probably not possible for you but totally removing yourself from possibility of scoring is a HUGE help.
seriously i got no serious physical withdrawl ok was getting hot flushes and cold shivers a bit but fuck there was 12 years dope abuse to come out.
this really was painless and relativley quick, i did start my old booze habit with a vengence but hey!!!
i also tried ibogain which i would also recomend but realise is very expensive sorry illegal there so yeah expensive. personally i didn't trip on it and found it too easy so used pretty much straight away lol really was day three of ratttle was down the pub absolutley fine couldn't believe it that was from 1g day.
hope this may be of some help however i dont think you are ready like me.
i've got clean so many times i lost count now, longest i lasted was about 5months befor using and very very quickly becoming hopelessly addicted again.
i know this aint wot you want from life but mate its SO FUKIN HARD i know exactly were your coming from, i been saying i'm gonna start tapering my h off tommorrow for about 3 months or more and alls happened is i'm using fukin more..... weak people me and you i think. hell dont even feel the shit very often,mind got some banging gear at moment nodding to fuck.
anyway just keep it in your head that you do want to give up its when you stop even thinking about quittin your fuked so your sort of on the right track but you gotta want it so fukin bad man more than you fukin want anything and even that probably wont be enough.
i aint been in residential rehab here but i seen good friends do 6 month walk out and fukin use that day fukin crazy but its just the way were wired i think.
summit aint right up top for us addicts to do the shit we do for a fix, fukincrazy it is and criminalising you DOES NOT FUKIN HELP ANYONE
right enough of my bullshit
hope this might help you or anyone else
good luck yeah:|
 
^ yeah your right. It's obvious from all the various tapers,whether it's sub,methadone or H. Everytime it's a few days at best with the idea that the wds will be avoided and he won't be sick. There's a serious fear of wds goingon IMO. When the actual detox is never as bad as the majority of addcits build up the severity of the wds in their mind. Either a slower taper needs to be planned and carried out to minimize the acute wds,or accept the factthat after a 4 day taper, the jup is going to be no different than going CT. If you really want to quit using dope as much as you've posted about it, then make a plan and follow through. Any attempt that includes using sub for a day or two and picking up a bundle later that same day draws the criticism and questions to your believability. IME the best way to get off sub is to take a high dose for four or five days then just stop. I know quite a few that have done this with great results. First learned about this method from a friend's Dr that recomended it. You take 24gs for four or five days, the halflife of each dose stacks up so when you top after the fifth day you have enough built up in your system that you'llbe slowly stepping down over the next week or so. That's how I got off the sub, basically no wds.Only a week or so with trouble sleeping. Theres no point in taking sub if the dose isnt high enough to stop the cravings. As long as your wanting to get high sub isn't going to work, if that's the case you'd be better off getting an implant buried in your arm so you wont be able to get high. Hopefully the guy that got pissed over the $20 will still hook you up with the methadone if that's helping. When calling around MMT clinicsmention that your wanting to taper off the benzos.That can make a difference when trying to get treatment.
 
i think he's afraid of what any addict is afraid of when thinking of quitting: the idea that he will NEVER use again. that terrified me at first. Now, THE HOPE that I will never use again give me wings. try it...within a month of being clean, you'll remember all the bad stuff and feel great that you are clean; let the regret and guilt of your mistakes drive you further through to the road of sanity and health. hold tight brother
 
Yeh we haven't heard from Jake in a little bit now, looks like some people are getting concerned whether they realize it or not.

Being afraid of wds and being afraid of never using again (what both sid/CD said) are HUGE factors in keeping an addict using imo.
People say it gets harder and harder the more you wd, and physically that may be true, but psychologically I noticed I get stronger everytime I try.

You realize that wds are not infinite, they DO end, and you also learn ways to manipulate your habit (tapering) to lessen wds. You also learn little gems of wisdom that help along the way. Like learning that I can get high ANYTIME ANYDAY (as strange as it sounds) was a huge release in the compulsion of my own addiction.
I can get high tommorow, next week, I can get high everyday till I die. And the last time I tapered anytime I felt like using I'd tell myself "you have the rest of your life to get high" and that was one of that last thoughts I expected to actually alleviate me of a craving. You start learning counterintuitive stuff like that just from experience.

The problem I'm seeing with Jakes addiction is that he merely lacks experience with getting clean. And I think a lot of addicts falsey get hung up on the idea that "if I don't do this now (get clean) I will NEVER succeed at doing it in the future". Again, not true. In fact, I see it almost paralleled to the idea of driving. You might try to pass your test and fail, but the more you try the more likely you are to eventually succeed.

I think why Jake is not succeeding is for reasons I've voiced before, like him not trying. Giving something a TRUE effort will always afford you experience/skills in some way. His experience and skills haven't seemed to progress since he started "trying" to get clean, which is the main reason I keep saying he doesn't try. It actually gets easier when you DO try, overtime, and he is always stuck simply because his definition of trying is flawed. Or maybe he lacks experience to the point where its flawing his definition of "trying".

He envisions "trying" in ways that I think a lot of people don't. Because nearly EVERYTIME he has "tried" he has done the same thing just like carl said, and expected the SAME result. Its always a short 3-4 taper with him saying "I hope I won't get wds" and I keep thinking "how is it not blatantly obvious to Jake at this point that 3-4 days effectively does SHIT for wds?"

The word "taper" is associated with much longer than a few days, I see people doing short tapers in like a week off heroin and STILL getting slammed with horrible wds, I often question why Jake doesn't see these same people and learn from them.

I see threads where a persons first post is "I'm trying to get clean", and although most of them don't succeed at staying clean, MANY of them succeed at actually getting clean. Its almost like a second instinct. "If plan A doesn't work go on to plan B". But Jake repeats plan A 5 thousand times w/out ever really moving to plan B.

He often mistakes my boldness for rudeness which is not good for his self-awarness. I'm trying to get the idea into his brain that "trying" the way he sees it, and "trying" the way the world sees it, are 2 TOTALLY DIFFERENT things.

And my best and only advice today, and tommorow, and everyday after that will be to "try harder". I just saw a thread like 4 days ago with someone saying the wanted to get clean. They tried a taper and it failed. They realized plan a wasn't working and didn't want to go to detox (for similar social reasons that Jake faces). Could they have gone on for 12 months voicing those social reasons and still using? Absolutely.
But why did they wind up in detox on a couple days later? Because of 2 reasons.

1) They REALLY wanted to get clean.
2) They knew the definition of trying.

Thats it.
 
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Thats right I forgot about that. He's prob been getting high as a kite ever since he stopped posting. And the second he runs out of cash he'll be back here whining about all the pain he's in which I'm assuming will be even worse this time.
Its obvious at this point that the only time he "wants to get clean" is when he doesn't have any cash. All I know is I have as much support left for this kid as his bank account will have money by next week.. which is none. I feel worse for his parents at this point then I do for him. Cutting him off financially will be the best thing that can happen to him.
 
Cutting him off financially will be the best thing that can happen to him.
Click to expand...

Or the worst thing that could happen to him. I totally agree that it comes down to a decision that you want to get/stay clean but lord knows that isnt even enough most times. I just got so sick of believe it or not being high/fuct constantly things just had to change. It took many years to even fully try. It was to easy to sit on maintenance and twiddle my thumbs. I wanted to get/stay clean for soo long but truthfully I have no idea why this last time stuck. 6 months off opiates the longest since I was 15? HUGE deal.

Post jake, I for one dont give a fuck if your using it is a long process but I guess it doesnt have to be. Shaking the heroin part took forver for me and like I have said countless other times it took years sitting on methadone/sub till I got myself out of that lifestyle. A big part was I think was just getting older and seeing so many ppl just gone/dead, another huge part was losing my mind on amphetamines ontop of everything else. I have had dope dreams the last 3 nights, vivid. Stashing bags behind the ashtray when getting pulled over at roadblocks. Sitting on stairs in some club swigging out off black champagne bottles and doing lines of the steps. etc. I could go on and on but wont.

It has made me a little nervous truthfully and the thought about copping a few bags has definitely been on my mind. If they were right in front of me I would have a hard time saying no. Thats the other thing, heroin is available ALL THE TIME. I could have some in 30 mins if I really wanted it. Getting that shit out of my head was very hard and from what I hear other ppl saying 6 months is a time where that cycle of thinking about it pops up more. I do love dreams though.

peace.
seedless
 
Jake I've been lurking and occasionally posting on these forums for a while.. seems you and I have been struggling kicking dope for quite a bit of time (thank god I don't have a benzo addiction to go with it).

I think I'm gonna try the relocation fix next... probably apply to grad school and go to the next city over where I don't know anyone (dealers).. probably DC.

Good luck to you my anonymous internet-dwelling heroin-addicted friend.
 
Jake, do you have a friend who could babysit you through withdrawals? There's a wealth of information online about how to minimise withdrawals, but I'm guessing a lot of those steps would be hard to take when you're in extreme physical discomfort unless you have someone to walk you through them.

Perhaps you could develop a detox plan which includes measures for coping with each of the withdrawal symptoms as they arise and have a detox buddy guide you through them. The self-detoxing plans I've read online seem pretty similar and they have worked for a lot of people.

The step which you seem to be struggling with is risking the physical discomfort of withdrawal. Having a plan for dealing with it and someone to walk you through it as it happens might make taking that step easier for you.

That said, if the only time you want to get clean is when you don't have money then it's not likely you'll manage to stay clean for long so you need to organise some kind of plan and support for staying clean. While opiates aren't my DOC, I recognise the pattern of binging and then going without until you have cash again - that cycle in itself is pretty addictive and the drama of it can become quite seductive.
 
well if he isn't dead then my only advice Jake is on your next mission instead of getting some smack get copicous quantities of LSD, nail your door shut and fight the demon with some acid (that shit will burn away your addiction).

Don't take a lot of of the acid though, just low thresold doses.
 
Yeh Jake is fine, I talked to him on the cell a couple days ago. He didn't stop posting because of the "hypocritical bullshit" he was actually requested to take some time off the forums by a moderator. I guess it was more or less to calm everything down.
 
I believe it has been about a week now that i have not posted so here i am . still alive and free...........as far as opiates , i think ive accepted the fact im gonna be on them for awhile whether its someones take home dose, H, or subs.............its sad but true.......I just am too much of a pussy when it comes to dope sickness and im not ready to go away to a rehab when im so close to finally gettin a college degree after years of not doin it. Now i know yuo all say i wont get it if i am using but i have made it thru 2 yrs of college using and not missed a day of class and done ok in my classes
 
after u got off work u should of took a lil more sub and tryd 2 go 2 sleep,2marrow would of been a better day,i use 2 stay h out 4 months at a time then take subs 2 clean up an the first day subs rarily helpd second day was a lil better an so forth..
 
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