Hi guys! Would it be ok to take 400mg Aniracetam (in the afternoon) and 800 or 1200mg Piracetam in the morning? Currently I am taking 1200mg Piracetam to enhance my rolling but heard that Aniracetam is very good for that too. Would it be ok to combine? Cheers.
The Big & Dandy Nootropics Thread
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DwayneHoover
Bluelighter
Many people combine them. Try it and see what it does for you... do your roll, then report back to us here!
You can also read up or ask about about combining the 2 noots over in the Nootropics area of IMMINST.ORG
(But don't mention about using it to enhance drugs unless you wanna get hollered at... they're kinda persnickety, prim-n-proper over there... not all of them, but by an large.)
You can also read up or ask about about combining the 2 noots over in the Nootropics area of IMMINST.ORG
(But don't mention about using it to enhance drugs unless you wanna get hollered at... they're kinda persnickety, prim-n-proper over there... not all of them, but by an large.)
General Patton
Bluelighter
^ Yeah I have to say I've noted the same about the people at that particular forum. At the same time I've found the information, studies, and posts in this thread to be of great help to me:
http://www.imminst.org/forum/topic/40675-healing-the-mind-from-dxm-induced-psychosis/
My cognitive deficits are due to a period of ketamine and phencyclidine use, approximately one year ago almost to this date +/- a week. I'm currently taking the following fairly simple stack:
- Centrum basic multi-vitamin
- "Mega stress" B-Vitamin formula (Hah, I'm not that stressed it just has loads of B-vitamins and Iron)
- ~1250mg L-Glutamine for gut barrier protection
- ~1200mg Assorted Omega 3's
- Digestive enzymes throughout the day, for gluten intolerance.
Just maintenance while I take a break from THC and other drugs, to reset my tolerance and for a medical procedure where I've been asked to note everything I've been taking. Will be adding DL-Phenylanine and L-Huperzine A on Thursday-Friday and fiddling with the doses until next week. I've been advised by the manufacturer of the Huperzine to cycle it on and off a few times a week. I will try and use it on the days I have class to maximize it's effects, but there are just as many reports of daily use so I'm not terribly concerned about it. I'm psyched! I'm actually pretty interested in how it combines with a nice full spectrum marijuana extract, some kush soaked in olive or coconut oil, or a vaporized hit for more immediate effects. Will wait until the end of the month to experiment, letting the noots do their work for a few weeks and after my brain has come to a nice positively enhanced plateau state.
http://www.imminst.org/forum/topic/40675-healing-the-mind-from-dxm-induced-psychosis/
My cognitive deficits are due to a period of ketamine and phencyclidine use, approximately one year ago almost to this date +/- a week. I'm currently taking the following fairly simple stack:
- Centrum basic multi-vitamin
- "Mega stress" B-Vitamin formula (Hah, I'm not that stressed it just has loads of B-vitamins and Iron)
- ~1250mg L-Glutamine for gut barrier protection
- ~1200mg Assorted Omega 3's
- Digestive enzymes throughout the day, for gluten intolerance.
Just maintenance while I take a break from THC and other drugs, to reset my tolerance and for a medical procedure where I've been asked to note everything I've been taking. Will be adding DL-Phenylanine and L-Huperzine A on Thursday-Friday and fiddling with the doses until next week. I've been advised by the manufacturer of the Huperzine to cycle it on and off a few times a week. I will try and use it on the days I have class to maximize it's effects, but there are just as many reports of daily use so I'm not terribly concerned about it. I'm psyched! I'm actually pretty interested in how it combines with a nice full spectrum marijuana extract, some kush soaked in olive or coconut oil, or a vaporized hit for more immediate effects. Will wait until the end of the month to experiment, letting the noots do their work for a few weeks and after my brain has come to a nice positively enhanced plateau state.
DwayneHoover
Bluelighter
I didnt care for Huperzine either... Vinpocetine, other things that muck with acetylcholinesterase production and/or reuptake or other neurotransmittter receptor or micro-enzyme modifiers... they all just kinda make my head feel like it was being tinkered with by some weird alien wrenches and screwdrivers, make me feel somehow off-kilter, but maybe you will like it, who knows.
Glutamine is great. I often take 10g/day... 5g mixed in with whey protein serving, for muscles and gut. 5g with juice in morning with other aminos so it gets into bloodstream then crosses b/b barrier and helps act as energy substrate and general do-gooder inside the brain. It is SOOO good for you... from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glutamine
In human blood, glutamine is the most abundant free amino acid...
Glutamine plays a role in a variety of biochemical functions including:
Protein synthesis, as any other amino acid.
-Regulation of acid-base balance in the kidney by producing ammonium.[3]
-Cellular energy, as a source, next to glucose.[4]
-Nitrogen donation for many anabolic processes.[2]
-Carbon donation, as a source, refilling the citric acid cycle.[5]
The most eager consumers of glutamine are the cells of intestines[2], the kidney cells for the acid base balance, activated immune cells
In catabolic states of injury and illness, glutamine becomes conditionally-essential (requiring intake from food or supplements). Glutamine has been studied extensively over the past 10–15 years and has been shown to be useful in treatment of serious illnesses, injury, trauma, burns, and treatment-related side-effects of cancer as well as in wound healing for postoperative patients.[8]
Glutamine is also marketed as a supplement used for muscle growth in weightlifting, bodybuilding, endurance, and other sports, Evidence indicates that glutamine when orally loaded may increase plasma HGH levels by stimulating the anterior pitutitary gland. [9]. In biological research, L-glutamine is commonly added [10]to the media in cell culture.
Aiding recovery after surgery -
It is also known that glutamine has various effects in reducing healing time after operations. Hospital-stay times after abdominal surgery can be reduced by providing parenteral nutrition regimes containing high amounts of glutamine to patients. Clinical trials have revealed that patients on supplementation regimes containing glutamine have improved nitrogen balances, generation of cysteinyl-leukotrienes from polymorphonuclear neutrophil granulocytes, and improved lymphocyte recovery and intestinal permeability (in postoperative patients), in comparison to those that had no glutamine within their dietary regime, all without any side-effects.[11]
Glutamine is the most abundant naturally occurring, non-essential amino acid in the human body and one of the few amino acids that directly cross the blood-brain barrier.[12] In the body, it is found circulating in the blood as well as stored in the skeletal muscles. It becomes conditionally essential (requiring intake from food or supplements) in states of illness or injury.[8]
Dietary sources of L-glutamine include beef, chicken, fish, eggs, milk, dairy products, wheat, cabbage, beets, beans, spinach, and parsley. Small amounts of free L-glutamine are also found in vegetable juices and fermented foods, such as miso.[13]
[edit]Aiding gastrointestinal function
This section may require cleanup to meet Wikipedia's quality standards. Please improve this section if you can. (December 2008)
In recent studies, glutamine-enriched diets have been linked with intestinal effects including maintenance of gut barrier function and cell differentiation. This may relate to the fact that the intestinal extraction rate of glutamine is higher than that for other amino acids, and is therefore thought to be the most viable option when attempting to alleviate conditions relating to the gastrointestinal tract. These conditions were discovered within the gut between glutamine-enriched and non-glutamine-enriched diets. However, even though glutamine is thought to have "cleansing" properties and effects, it is unknown to what extent glutamine has clinical benefits, due to the varied concentrations of glutamine in varieties of food
Glutamine is great. I often take 10g/day... 5g mixed in with whey protein serving, for muscles and gut. 5g with juice in morning with other aminos so it gets into bloodstream then crosses b/b barrier and helps act as energy substrate and general do-gooder inside the brain. It is SOOO good for you... from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glutamine
In human blood, glutamine is the most abundant free amino acid...
Glutamine plays a role in a variety of biochemical functions including:
Protein synthesis, as any other amino acid.
-Regulation of acid-base balance in the kidney by producing ammonium.[3]
-Cellular energy, as a source, next to glucose.[4]
-Nitrogen donation for many anabolic processes.[2]
-Carbon donation, as a source, refilling the citric acid cycle.[5]
The most eager consumers of glutamine are the cells of intestines[2], the kidney cells for the acid base balance, activated immune cells
In catabolic states of injury and illness, glutamine becomes conditionally-essential (requiring intake from food or supplements). Glutamine has been studied extensively over the past 10–15 years and has been shown to be useful in treatment of serious illnesses, injury, trauma, burns, and treatment-related side-effects of cancer as well as in wound healing for postoperative patients.[8]
Glutamine is also marketed as a supplement used for muscle growth in weightlifting, bodybuilding, endurance, and other sports, Evidence indicates that glutamine when orally loaded may increase plasma HGH levels by stimulating the anterior pitutitary gland. [9]. In biological research, L-glutamine is commonly added [10]to the media in cell culture.
Aiding recovery after surgery -
It is also known that glutamine has various effects in reducing healing time after operations. Hospital-stay times after abdominal surgery can be reduced by providing parenteral nutrition regimes containing high amounts of glutamine to patients. Clinical trials have revealed that patients on supplementation regimes containing glutamine have improved nitrogen balances, generation of cysteinyl-leukotrienes from polymorphonuclear neutrophil granulocytes, and improved lymphocyte recovery and intestinal permeability (in postoperative patients), in comparison to those that had no glutamine within their dietary regime, all without any side-effects.[11]
Glutamine is the most abundant naturally occurring, non-essential amino acid in the human body and one of the few amino acids that directly cross the blood-brain barrier.[12] In the body, it is found circulating in the blood as well as stored in the skeletal muscles. It becomes conditionally essential (requiring intake from food or supplements) in states of illness or injury.[8]
Dietary sources of L-glutamine include beef, chicken, fish, eggs, milk, dairy products, wheat, cabbage, beets, beans, spinach, and parsley. Small amounts of free L-glutamine are also found in vegetable juices and fermented foods, such as miso.[13]
[edit]Aiding gastrointestinal function
This section may require cleanup to meet Wikipedia's quality standards. Please improve this section if you can. (December 2008)
In recent studies, glutamine-enriched diets have been linked with intestinal effects including maintenance of gut barrier function and cell differentiation. This may relate to the fact that the intestinal extraction rate of glutamine is higher than that for other amino acids, and is therefore thought to be the most viable option when attempting to alleviate conditions relating to the gastrointestinal tract. These conditions were discovered within the gut between glutamine-enriched and non-glutamine-enriched diets. However, even though glutamine is thought to have "cleansing" properties and effects, it is unknown to what extent glutamine has clinical benefits, due to the varied concentrations of glutamine in varieties of food
General Patton
Bluelighter
Your description of how Huperazine made you feel is a pretty good description of how I felt after my dissociative binge, and the feeling remains with me to this day to a certain degree. I'm hoping an NDMA antagonist that has nootropic and cognitive-enhancing abilities will help me integrate this feeling into a more functional mindstate. It seems to benefit those with a particular brain chemistry, one perhaps with a deficit or mis-wiring in those specific receptors. For example those in the DXM induced psychosis thread seem to benefit more from it than others without NDMA-induced toxicity.
Like any addition to my supplement regime I will of course pay attention to the side-effects, of which there are many for this particular one, as well as the positive effects which I desire. Here's hoping it does the trick! Thanks for the info on glutamine, when I gain enough weight to start my workout routine I'll be taking much more of it to bolster muscle growth. As someone with a food intolerance and thus a weak gut-barrier it's important for me to take things to strengthen it as well as glutamic acid and digestive enzymes with every meal.
Thanks for the tip! I have been always taking piratam before the rolls so will try to combine it and see if I feel any difference (when taking 2x 1200mg piracetam i honestly dont notice much in normal life and it has been ages since i roll without preloading so cant compare). Nice day to all!
General Patton
Bluelighter
Yeah I've really been enjoying taking 500mg-1g of DL-phenlyanine in the daytime for increased energy levels. It's a nice subtle boost, which makes sense as it's a dopamine precursor and not a direct agonist like amphetamine. I also think the only one of the enantiomers is active which helps taper down how much is converted by the body into phenethylamine. I also tried 100ug huperazine and managed to get alot of work done at school. It was really like I had extra resources to dwell on and I didn't feel much in the way of side effects.
Than again these levels which have so far worked amazingly for me might not work for everyone. These two feel like they "slot-in" to some part of my brain and it takes much less mental effort to function and mental fluidity has been greatly increased. Before it felt like I was "stuck" somewhere between anhedonia and depression, and it took alot of my resources just to cope with it. We'll see how long lasting and sustainable this positive mental state is, but right now I feel peachy keen
Than again these levels which have so far worked amazingly for me might not work for everyone. These two feel like they "slot-in" to some part of my brain and it takes much less mental effort to function and mental fluidity has been greatly increased. Before it felt like I was "stuck" somewhere between anhedonia and depression, and it took alot of my resources just to cope with it. We'll see how long lasting and sustainable this positive mental state is, but right now I feel peachy keen
MagickalKat777
Bluelight Crew
Well after noticing the piracetam shortage... I just ordered 500g of primaforce piracetam (hope its good) and 400g of l-glutamine. I've heard the two make a great stack not just as nootropics but as anxiolytics too so bonus if that works out. Was only 50 bucks for the two including 6 bucks for shipping... not bad. Took me awhile to find a place that actually had it in non-capsule form though. Well... at a good price anyway.
PepperSocks
Bluelight Crew
Yeah I've really been enjoying taking 500mg-1g of DL-phenlyanine in the daytime for increased energy levels. It's a nice subtle boost, which makes sense as it's a dopamine precursor and not a direct agonist like amphetamine. I also think the only one of the enantiomers is active which helps taper down how much is converted by the body into phenethylamine. I also tried 100ug huperazine and managed to get alot of work done at school. It was really like I had extra resources to dwell on and I didn't feel much in the way of side effects.
Than again these levels which have so far worked amazingly for me might not work for everyone. These two feel like they "slot-in" to some part of my brain and it takes much less mental effort to function and mental fluidity has been greatly increased. Before it felt like I was "stuck" somewhere between anhedonia and depression, and it took alot of my resources just to cope with it. We'll see how long lasting and sustainable this positive mental state is, but right now I feel peachy keen
You've got me interested. I tried taking L-tyrosine for the same effect (tyrosine is the next one down the cascade after phenylalanine and thus should be more effective), but all I ever got an uncomfortable, unstimulating edginess.
General Patton
Bluelighter
I tried L-tyrosine myself, back around one and a half years ago and found it weirdly edgy and taxing on the body too. Nothing like that with l-phenylanine, which is odd because as you said as it surely goes through tyrosine in the metabolism process. I know tyrosine is present in casein in large quantities, and when I was researching food intolerances noted that maybe it just doesn't get along with alot of people digestive and peripheral nervous system. I know it didn't with mine when I dumped a capsule under my tongue as an allergy test.
Of course you could always try some phenethylamine, which according to one of the many dubious claims on wikipedia is "body's endogenous amphetamine" :D
PepperSocks
Bluelight Crew
Phenethylamine is rapidly broken down by MAO in the gut; you have to take 2g or so to overwhelm MAO and get an effect and even then it's a quick rush that lasts about half an hour. I actually have a tub of it and I plan try that sometime but it's not something that can last all day or anything.
MagickalKat777
Bluelight Crew
So what does everyone think of this stack - inositol, piracetam, L-glutamine?
General Patton
Bluelighter
That's about what I expected, these things don't seem like they're too potent & long lasting. But for those with deficiencies in certain brain chemicals it can be very helpful, I assume for others they may just experience side-effects or a just beyond placebo kindof boost.
It sounds pretty good, I found inositol gave a great clarity of mind and really helped with obsessive self-hating thought loops. Dunno if that's you're motivation in taking it but I take it that it if you're not depressed it could enhance one's thoughts. With the piracetam it should give you a nice mental boost, although I have yet to try that (and may not if the FDA gets their way) L-glutamine I take for gut barrier enhancement but it also has a mild GABA-ergic effect that reduces anxiety. Also builds muscle in high doses, remember healthy body healthy mind
MagickalKat777
Bluelight Crew
Thanks General Patton - I'm actually planning on taking a rather high amount of inositol - 8g or so a day - its been shown to be highly effective for anxiety - but I'm thinking the stack will reduce the inositol need by at least half.
General Patton
Bluelighter
I took between 2-3g and it was pretty effective, the only problem I found with high doses is it's tendency to cause gas and bloating. But than again you can probably tell from my posts I have a sensitive stomache, so it may not affect you as much. I took around the same amount of l-glutamine as I do now (1200mg) which seemed to reduce that, the piracetam would probably reduce that further. Make sure you take some B-vitamins with your inositol as they're needed to process it, I made caps with half a B-vitamin and 500mg inositol. A few a day did the trick, you can see my exact regimen in one of my earlier posts in this thread.
MagickalKat777
Bluelight Crew
I thought inositol itself was a B-derivative? B-vitamins give me excessive anxiety... paradoxical, I know.
Roger&Me
Bluelighter
I would personally recommend the inositol in combination with some choline, (the glutamine is probably a waste of money-- but might be mildly helpful to your body under certain circumstances so if you have the money to spare it can't hurt).
If you still desire enhanced cognition after a few weeks, try 800mg of piracetam every other day for a couple weeks (in combination with the choline and inositol). Less is more as far as piracetam is concerned: the dose-response relationship is not linear, taking too much can actually be detrimental to cognition.
Exercise caution with piracetam if you are, or have been, benzodiazepine-dependent. I've found that I can no longer tolerate it after having used benzos habitually, as it now revives certain symptoms of benzo withdrawal.
Jamshyd
Bluelight Crew
^ Bingo.
Piracetam (and its analogues) are not as innocuous as they are claimed to be.
In my case, Piracetam, Oxiracetam, and Nefiracetam all had the exact same effect (taken daily at various doses - it all seems the same): Not much the first two days, followed by anxiety and severe suicidal depression that would stop as soon as the drug is stopped.
Also, if you use Ketamine (as I gather from your posts), you may notice that Piracetam almost completely blocks its effects.
I am not the only one who experienced these things on Piracetam. Do a search and you'll find several others...
Honestly, I don't waste my time with most so-called Nootropics. Hydergine is special because its effects are tangible and, IME, entirely positive and healthy-feeling. I'm not surprised that Albert Hoffman took it every day.
Piracetam (and its analogues) are not as innocuous as they are claimed to be.
In my case, Piracetam, Oxiracetam, and Nefiracetam all had the exact same effect (taken daily at various doses - it all seems the same): Not much the first two days, followed by anxiety and severe suicidal depression that would stop as soon as the drug is stopped.
Also, if you use Ketamine (as I gather from your posts), you may notice that Piracetam almost completely blocks its effects.
I am not the only one who experienced these things on Piracetam. Do a search and you'll find several others...
Honestly, I don't waste my time with most so-called Nootropics. Hydergine is special because its effects are tangible and, IME, entirely positive and healthy-feeling. I'm not surprised that Albert Hoffman took it every day.
Jamshyd
Bluelight Crew
On the subject of cerebral-enhancers, I have found Nicotine (yes! :D) to work wonders for me. I'm a non-smoker and I take it in the form of patches. IME, it (in the form of patches) is every bit as effective as a low-dose of amphetamine (and, as a matter of fact, works wonders for quitting the latter - I used it after my dexedrine habit). The tricky part is the dosage, as shooting even a little bit high will cause unpleasant side-effects.
I am on a small piece of Nicotine Patch at the moment and I'm feeling its effects on alertness, concentration, mood, and memory recall.
Its only negative is that it can be very addictive (obviously). As a patch, at normal doses, Nicotine appears to be completely safe, if not even beneficial.
I am on a small piece of Nicotine Patch at the moment and I'm feeling its effects on alertness, concentration, mood, and memory recall.
Its only negative is that it can be very addictive (obviously). As a patch, at normal doses, Nicotine appears to be completely safe, if not even beneficial.
atara
Bluelighter
Nicotine's beneficial effects on cognition and reaction time are well-documented. The problem is that it has been shown to impede apoptosis, which may promote the development of tumors (though it is not itself carcinogenic), and as a vasoconstrictor it may contribute to erectile dysfunction (!!!). Plus its half-life is two hours.
http://www.ebasedtreatment.org/drugs/treatment/nicotine/toxicology
A longer-acting nicotinic agonist, preferably alpha-7 selective, would be preferable.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alpha-7_nicotinic_acetylcholine_receptor
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