The Big & Dandy Nootropics Thread

[Jamshyd]

^ I would definitely be interested in trying other drugs with Nicotine-like action, and am actually surprised that not much has been done in that area.

I've never experienced ED (or any other vasoconstrictive effects for that matter) with Nicotine patches.

That said, the half-life issue for Nicotine is adequately addressed through the use of the patch. I get a very steady effect for most of 24 hours. That said patches DO differ in efficacy and this is one drug I do not recommend cheaping out on. The square, transparent "transderm" patches seem to work best. To be economical, a single patch can be cut up into smaller ones and they'd still work, even though it says in the instructions not to cut it up...

 

[General Patton]

I thought inositol itself was a B-derivative? B-vitamins give me excessive anxiety... paradoxical, I know.

It's a B-derivative, but I guess it needs to piggy-back on some other B's to get into the brain. It IS active without them, and certianly at the doses you mentioned. If you plan on taking that much of the powder say in a liquid, risking the extra anxiety of taking a B complex may not be necessary.

It's not exactly paradoxical, I've seen my friend shake like a leaf from taking a B-50 and need to meditate to focus the energy. I take B-50's everyday and I feel all the better for it, this entire thread is full of varied reactions to the same substances

 

[DwayneHoover]

I've seen my friend shake like a leaf from taking a B-50 and need to meditate to focus the energy. I take B-50's everyday and I feel all the better for it, this entire thread is full of varied reactions to the same substances

Your friend needs to go see a psychiatrist or check himself into the mental hospital. There is absolutely NOTHING in a b-50 complex, short of some exceedingly rare allergy or something, that could possibly cause this. Most likely some form of mental illness.

I would say he possibly has an anxiety or panic disorder of some kind where when he takes any pill or is exposed to anything new, his mind starts churning out all sorts of insane irrational fantasies about harm that it "MIGHT" cause, and then he gets all upset and nervous and afraid that one might happen, all without any basis whatsoever in reality. This sort of this is probably more about suppressed anxieties from something in his life that a new experience gives an excuse to leak out.

Or maybe some whacko once told him some idiotic fairy tales about how B pills can "poison" you, your friend believed them, and this reaction is an instance of the placebo effect.

But your friend is almost sure a nutcase of some kind. A B-50 would NEVER cause uncontrollable shaking for ANY reason, that is just totally ridiculous.

 

[General Patton]

It could have easily been psychologically motivated, and the meditation calmed him-I will give you that. Combined with MagicalKat's comment about B's causing him excess anxiety that seems plausible. Than again who's to say what causes what, in someone elses body? Excess B6 causes peripheral neuropathy, which I have felt when taking high doses. A physiological reaction can manifest in many ways, and can be dispelled just as easily, that was my only point there.

 

[DwayneHoover]

Excess B6 causes peripheral neuropathy, which I have felt when taking high doses

Did the neuropathy manifest shortly after taking a single high dose? If so, it was PLACEBO EFFECT or some other psychological manifestation.

People read one thing somewhere about b-6 being "dangerous" and then anytime they take even totally safe doses, they start shaking uncontrollably, instantly get nerve tingles, or start feeling "anxiety." I swear, people are so suggestible.

t is rare for B6 to cause peripheral neuropathy symptoms, and when it happens it is usually after way more than 200 mg per day for a long period of time. Still rare.

If thats what you were using then, sorry for the diatribe, I guess that could have been causing your symptom.... but again, its still rare even with high, extended doses.

 

[MagickalKat777]

B vitamins are well-known to increase anxiety in anxiety sufferers... Google it.

Also, I AM benzo dependent and have been for years but I never noticed any problems with piracetam and benzos... Picamilon and benzos... disaster... GABA and benzos... disaster... But I was taking Xanax daily with phenibut and having no issues.

Are there studies on this? The last thing I need is my benzos getting knocked out of my brain especially since I take 2mg of Klonopin a day and Xanax doesn't work at all for me anymore so I'd be in for at least an hour of hell while waiting for the Kpins to kick in...

Anyway my reasoning for piracetam aren't entirely nootropic... I'm going to be rolling for the first time in 3 years... some really pure molly - we're talking stuff that makes vets babbling messes on the floor for 5 hours from 200mg - and piracetam always increased the roll dramatically but drastically reduced the crash and the CNS stimulation for me...

L-glutamine I'm trying because quite simply, GABA fucking sucks. L-theanine causes a paradoxical reaction so I don't use it... GABA causes me a paradoxical reaction but ALSO causes me to have insanely bad Niacin-like flushing...

Its just bad business all the way around.

Inositol I've taken before and found it to be rather benign ... and it tastes like powdered sugar - how much better does it get than an active powder that tastes like powdered sugar? :D

I'll be cautious with the piracetam... maybe start with 400mg once a day, then if I'm fine on that, 400mg twice a day, then 3 times a day... I don't think I'll need the standard 2400mg dosing.

EDIT: And yes Jamshyd I LOVE ketamine - unfortunately I don't have any easy access to it so its a mum point. I'm surprised you don't remember me with all the debates we used to get into haha.

 

[DwayneHoover]

B vitamins are well-known to increase anxiety in anxiety sufferers... Google it.

...

I'll be cautious with the piracetam... maybe start with 400mg once a day, then if I'm fine on that, 400mg twice a day, then 3 times a day... I don't think I'll need the standard 2400mg dosing.

I wasnt aware of that about b-vitamins... very surprised given what I know about them... is your statement based on anecdotal reports/chat or medical research publications?

And std dose for Piracetam is I think 800mg... the 2400 is the not-universally-accepted "loading dose" I think which some say is not nrcessary.

 

[DwayneHoover]

MKat I think you got something backwards... Google says only that they are indicated for TREATMENT OF anxiety via their support of and use by the brain and nervous system, not causing it! If there should be someone in whom b-vits cause anxiety, I would say that is some extremely odd and rare allergy or something... I just do not believe it, that reaction is surely psychological in nature. If you have a link that says otherwise, please post it.

First 20 hits from googling [b-vitamins anxiety]:

Anxiety, vitamin therapy for anxiety, Holisticonline.com
The B vitamins are important for the nervous system. They have been found to stabilize the body's lactate levels, which are responsible for anxiety attacks. ...
www.holisticonline.com/remedies/anxiety/anx_vitamin_therapy.htm - Cached

B Vitamins - Information about B Vitamins, Anxiety, Stress ...
B vitamins have been proven to support the availability and production of key neurotransmitters, like serotonin, norepinephrine and dopamine.
www.social-anxiety-disorder-resources.com/bvitamins.html - Cached -

Vitamins for Anxiety and Panic Disorders
Sep 18, 2006 ... Panic Disorder is one of the most severe forms of anxiety disorder and is often ... B vitamins - Biotin, niacin (100mg per day), thiamine, ...
ezinearticles.com/?Vitamins-for-Anxiety-and-Panic...id... - Cached -


Vitamin Defiencies and Depression - Can Vitamins Help Depression
May 4, 2009 ... This can lead to fatigue, depression, irritability, anxiety, and even thoughts ... Folic acid: This B vitamin is needed for DNA synthesis. ...
depression.about.com/cs/diet/a/vitamin.htm - Cached -

Top 10 Anxiety Stress Relief Vitamins and Minerals
Vitamin B Complex. Effect: This is perhaps the most important of the anxiety stress relief vitamins and minerals, working on several different parts of the ...
www.stressreductionbasics.com/anxietystressreliefvitaminsandminerals.html - Cached -

Vitamin B for Anxiety and Panic Disorder: B-Complex Supplements ...
Sep 29, 2008 ... Many of those who suffer from certain anxiety disorders are deficient in one or more B vitamins. Taking B vitamin supplements may help to ...
www.suite101.com/.../vitamin-b-for-anxiety-and-panic-disorder-a70971 - Cached

Diagnose-Me: Treatment: Vitamin B-Complex
Jul 20, 2010 ... Several of the B-vitamins are indicated in anxiety treatment. When taking high doses of a particular B-vitamin, it is best to use a ...
www.diagnose-me.com/treat/T38116.html - Cached

Vitamins For Anxiety | LIVESTRONG.COM
Oct 27, 2009 ... A deficiency in vitamin B12 may lead to feelings of anxiety and stress. ... What B Vitamins Are Good for Anxiety & Stress? ...
www.livestrong.com/article/22007-vitamins-anxiety/ - Cached

Vitamin B and C for Anxiety | The Reality of Anxiety
Aug 10, 2007 ... The B vitamins are necessary to help maintain the proper functioning of the nervous system. Deficiencies in Vitamin B can lead to anxiety, ...
anxiousnomore.blogspot.com/.../vitamin-b-and-c-for-anxiety.html - Cached

Vitamins for Anxiety
Mar 15, 2010 ... Intake of B vitamin supplements or its natural resources can play a crucial role to alleviate anxiety disorders. Vitamin B1 (thiamine) ...
www.buzzle.com/articles/vitamins-for-anxiety.html

Vitamins: Busy B's | Psychology Today
Jul 26, 2004 ... Fatigue, irritability, poor concentration, anxiety and depression--all can be signs of a B vitamin deficiency. That's because compounds in ...
www.psychologytoday.com/articles/200407/vitamins-busy-bs - Cached

Best anxiety vitamins to take for Depression Treatment
Vitamin B6 is very important to regulate mood and behavior, deficiency of Pyridoxine leads to irritation and anxiety, insomnia and nervousness. ...
www.iampanicked.com/anxiety.../vitamins-for-depression.htm - Cached

The secret anxiety solution - Vitamin B complex
Dec 22, 2009 ... Every part of this complex vitamin has it's own exclusive purpose but it is when they work together as the Vitamin B Complex that it offers ...
getanxietyhelp.com/anxiety.../the-secret-anxiety-solution-vitamins-b-complex/ - Cached

Natural Remedies to Soothe Stress and Ease Anxiety
Sep 1, 1999 ... Natural treatments to ease anxiety (they can be combined but only with the guidance of a licensed naturopathic physician)... B vitamins The ...
www.spineuniverse.com/.../natural-remedies-soothe-stress-ease-anxiety - Cached

Vitamin B question - Anxiety - MedHelp
I dont know if anyone can help with this, but I have been taking the B-complex for almost a week now. I have actually noticed a difference already- not ...
www.medhelp.org/posts/Anxiety/Vitamin-B-question/.../40276 - Cached

Vitamin B Complex For Stress And Anxiety - 50 mg - 20% off RRP
Prompt worldwide dispatch. Money back guarantee. Often used to reduce stress and anxiety, tiredness and irritability, eczema and asthma.
www.healthandgoodness.com/.../vitamin-b-complex.html - Cached

Vitamin B Complex For Reducing Anxiety
Anxiety is an unpleasant emotional state of mind developed due to any personal uncertainties, misfortune, fear, apprehension and worry.
www.home-remedies-for-you.com/vitamins/b...vitamins/anxiety.html - Cached

Vitamin supplements for alcohol withdrawel and anxiety ...
Many alcoholics are deficient in B vitamins, including vitamin B3. ... Medical Center in an attempt to reduce anxiety and depression in alcoholics. ...
www.soberrecovery.com › ... › Alcoholism - Cached

Fighting anxiety naturally with B vitamins - Detroit Mental Health ...
Jun 21, 2009 ... Research has shown that a deficiency in B vitamins can affect your mood and lead to anxiety and depression.B1 aka Thiamine - B1 is needed by ...
www.examiner.com/...in.../fighting-anxiety-naturally-with-b-vitamins - Cached

Essential B Complex Vitamins - Learn about B-Vitamins for ...
Modern research shows that unhealthy levels of essential B-vitamins such as B6, B9 and B12 may contribute to poor mood and feelings related to anxiety and ...
www.clarocet.com/referencelibrary/B-vitamins/ - Cached

 

[General Patton]

Did the neuropathy manifest shortly after taking a single high dose? If so, it was PLACEBO EFFECT or some other psychological manifestation.

People read one thing somewhere about b-6 being "dangerous" and then anytime they take even totally safe doses, they start shaking uncontrollably, instantly get nerve tingles, or start feeling "anxiety." I swear, people are so suggestible.

t is rare for B6 to cause peripheral neuropathy symptoms, and when it happens it is usually after way more than 200 mg per day for a long period of time. Still rare.

If thats what you were using then, sorry for the diatribe, I guess that could have been causing your symptom.... but again, its still rare even with high, extended doses.

It was from continuous use of B50's + extra B12 and B6 supps so several hundred mg a day would not have been an exaggeration. I stopped taking the extra 12/6 caps and went away, so that's what I assumed it was. As far as my friend goes I was just reporting what he said and how I saw him react, fact is he DOES have some strange beliefs and that incident would be one example of them. Your questioning doesn't bother me, I invite any sort of criticism or scrutiny of my posts. I'll check out the swath of studies you posted, to help get to the bottom of this.

With nootropics it's especially important to separate the placebo effect from real effects on physiology and brain chemistry. I took some huperazine today and I can definately feel a nice cognitive boost and calm I wouldn't feel otherwise. I didn't take either the huperazine or phenylanine on Sunday and by night-time I didn't feel as positive or connected as when I took it the next day. It's like taking a load off my brain and I can focus more on being social and productive, which definately qualifies as positive nootropic effects in my book.

L-glutamine I'm trying because quite simply, GABA fucking sucks. L-theanine causes a paradoxical reaction so I don't use it... GABA causes me a paradoxical reaction but ALSO causes me to have insanely bad Niacin-like flushing...

Its just bad business all the way around.

Inositol I've taken before and found it to be rather benign ... and it tastes like powdered sugar - how much better does it get than an active powder that tastes like powdered sugar? :D

Glutamine sounds like it could be for you than, I enjoy it over GABA because of the lack of flush. It also does what GABA is supposed to do better than it itself, in my opinion. Like others said, if you can afford it give it a try, just be careful when dosing it with your benzos as I don't know how it will effect that. Yup inositol is pretty sweet eh? Literally I used to drop 500mg in a bottle of water and sip on it throughout class, the subtle taste reminds you it's not just water. Good for a slight reduction in anxiety but it may spike when someone says "Hey can I have a sip of your water?" Haha...

 

[Jamshyd]

^ Glutamine occurs in most foods... I doubt it'll have any interaction with benzos. The only thing I see it doing is helping a malnourished person produce GABA (and Glutamate, and other things), but a healthy person should not really expect much from glutamine supplementation.

I might be wrong though...

 

[MagickalKat777]

I'll have to do a search but I know benzobuddies highly disrecommends B vitamin supplementation for those that are in benzo withdrawal or aren't fully stable on their regular benzo prescription.

Benzos cause massive paradoxical reactions in a LOT of people... I react badly to most medications - like Lexapro felt like a massive dose of speed to me, at just 5mg, and Celexa turned me into a binge drinker but took away my anxiety almost completely. I had to stop taking it after having 2 mental breakdowns and ending up in the hospital in less than a week. This was on 20mg a day for only 3 months...

As far as glutamine goes, its not expensive. I got 400g for about 25 bucks... Its commonly used in muscle building stacks.

 

[love_sex_desire]

I've never looked into nootropics and will have to read through this thread but I was hoping for some advice on getting started.

I am thinking about trying piracetam and am wondering what I should stack it with. I am looking for increased energy and motivation without any stimulant jitter effects and increased focus.

I am also looking into supplements for my girlfriend. She has anxiety and panic attacks and she would be looking for something that is calming with increased motivation and focus for her studies. Phenibut is a relaxant, but I am worried about the addiction potential.

Any advice for on where to start regarding a regiment that would be suitable for me and one that would be suitable for my girlfriend is appreciated.

 

[MagickalKat777]

Piracetam + Inositol is what I would start with. There are many supplements you can add which give you energy without jitters but piracetam itself is stimulating for some.

For your girlfriend, the best thing I've EVER found that was not a prescription is Metabolic Response Modifiers Relax-All with Phenibut. It says to take 4 on the bottle, I take one and I'm out like I took a trazodone but with no hangover the next day. You cycle them 5 on, 2 off or ideally 3 on, 4 off... but its not just the phenibut that is active and the other plant ingredients all act on GABA too so I've never had phenibut withdrawal.

 

[General Patton]

Phenitbut or L-glutamine seems ideal for panic attacks, and inositol has been shown to reduce their frequency by almost half. I've been reading that l-glutamine can help with some of the side-effects of piracetam, so it could be useful in that stack. I've actually left the l-glut out lately, I think my new diet helps me more of it out of food and I started feeling the tingles again. I've narrowed my supplement intake down to:

-Basic multivitamin
-Half a B-50 tab
-100ug huperazine-A
-1000mg DL-phenylalanine (500mg x2)
-1200mg omega 3's (~600mg x2)
-300mg calcium citrate/150mg magnesium/200 IU vit D3

I tend not to take the phenylanine or huperazine on the weekend, unless I really need to do some work. It helps keep me just below hypomania, lets me cool my jets for a few days. I feel pretty good lately and have been following the "less is more" dictum with great results. Hope it lasts like this, good luck everyone in finding what you're looking for. Peace!

 

[MagickalKat777]

Huperzine is some potent stuff!

Thank you for the comments on my stack. I haven't used the L-Glutamine yet. Fried my serotonin neurons big time with a molly binge the likes my brain has never seen. Zaps and all... so I've been avoiding supps except the occasional l-tryptophan and Emergen-C.

 

[DwayneHoover]

I would consider using other antioxidants... Co-Q10, alpha lipoic acid are VERY good for neurochemical balance and repair. Also Mixed Carotenoids, mixed-exster E w/ mixed tocotrienols, Lycopene, pycnogenol, pomegranite extract.

Rhodiola extract is very balancing and effective.

Stndardized Korean or mixed Ginseng extract can help. Ashwaghanda is also an adaptogen, but it has some mild calming effects that might help with the ZAPs.

Acetyl-l-Carnitine is very good for alertness and helps rejuvinate memory and stimulate neuron regrowth and repair... start low, 500mg on empty stomach and work up to 2g/day if you can afford it over a couple months.

l-tyrosine or dl-phenylalanine are precursors to various neurotransmitters. Take them in morn on empty stomach along with 25mg B-6 and 1g C for max effectiveness, and to provide co-factors needed for conversion to neurotransmitters.

Methylcobalamin, active form of B-12 in the body, available as tiny sublingual dots, easily absorbs in mouth as well as gut and crosses blood-brain barrier (unlike other "cyano" forms that are mostly just excreted and dont do much)... MANY excellent neurological effects.

Skip the Emergen-C, expensive... Get Ester-C which has higher absorption in gut as well as into immune and nerve cells and lasts longer than other forms... look for name-brand and others containing also good dose of bioflavanoids... (pretty well priced at WalMart... look for buy one get one sales at big box stores as well as supplement isle at supermarket and also online... always a deal out there somewhere.)

Also, a generic broad-spectum multi, like the generic copies of Centrum Senior available at places like Walmart and Meijers.

The couple things you are taking dont seem like enough given your condition. Blast it with a shotgun approach!

 

[phew]

I would've posted this here, so I'll copy and paste my question here and delete the thread.

Piracetam stops the effects of dissociatives, from what I've read. But could you take it during the end of a trip to look and feel refreshed the next day? This would be a godsend--if it worked. I could finally do 4th plateau doses again without the retarded feeling next day. DXM makes me look like a complete retard if I take more than a certain amount, for at least one day after the trip is over. I can't even talk without a heavy tongue. Unacceptable.

Has anyone tried this?

Also, I've seen no literature on Piracetam and Diphenhydramine (except for an inaccessible thread with a single reply on another forum).


Edit:
I'm very aware that Piracetam can alleviate some symptoms of long-term abuse of dissociatives/deliriants, but my question is focused entirely on how Piracetam works immediately after a trip.

 

[Sturnam]

I'm looking for some nootropic that provide a subtle energy buzz throughout the day. I seem to get random moments where I'll suddenly be more fatigued than usual. Some days it never happens, some days it happens multiple times. Believe me, if there was some specific trigger, I probably would have figured it out by now.

Anyways, because of that, I've been looking at sulbutiamine. Does anyone have some experience with this as it relates to energy, particularly throughout the day?

Any other suggestions?

 

[DwayneHoover]

I'm looking for some nootropic that provide a subtle energy buzz throughout the day. I seem to get random moments where I'll suddenly be more fatigued than usual. Some days it never happens, some days it happens multiple times. Believe me, if there was some specific trigger, I probably would have figured it out by now.

Anyways, because of that, I've been looking at sulbutiamine. Does anyone have some experience with this as it relates to energy, particularly throughout the day?

Any other suggestions?

Sulbutiamine is great... it can totally cancel out fatigue from lack of sleep or overwork. It seems to only last about 3 hours, but taking it with a meal might extend that a bit. If you want you can redose again later and it re-works just fine.

Manufactured tabs come in 200mg I think, but I find 750mg needed for a really noticeable effect. Just barely the amount that fits in a medium-large gel cap, tightly packed. And you DO want to cap it.... one of the most horribly bitter tastes of anything I ever had, and its sticky so once on your tongue very hard to get rid of.

Again, at 750mg it works great for me. You may want to try it lower than that however, may work for you and you would save money.

 

[isotopic_parody]

Has anyone else noticed an almost amphetamine like feel to aniracetam? I'm an ex-meth addict... and I haven't touched the shit in over two years now and don't plan on it any time soon... But I recently started taking nootropics and I have found that aniracetam gets me in that same super power mode that amphetamines would, but without the dopamine filled, MUST DO MORE, feeling.

I just get super focused and my memory becomes sponge-like... I just can absorb everything with such ease... The effects are beginning to diminish a bit, though... but I think I have just been taking it too frequently... so I'm taking a 4 day break and going to see if it helps. The first few times I took it my vision literally became more crisp and colors were brighter. I was/am incredibly surprised at how well this works.

Pramiracetam, OTOH, I haven't been too impressed with... at all... and the piracetam I have I haven't gotten in to... If I continue to see these kind of results in performance, though, I will need to amass a stockpile of aniracetam... anyone else notice a speed like push without all the "skitzing out" feeling?

I'm also curious how aniracetam et al. interacts with LSD. Planning my semi/bi annual trip soon and curious as to how I should dose accordingly.

Thanks.