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Bupe Suboxone/Buprenorphine FAQ & Megathread v2; 2010

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Captain.Heroin said:
Not many drugs degrade over time like SSRI's would, if I had to bet on this issue, buprenorphine will outlive me. I will probably still have a stash of buprenorphine when I pass away too, lol. Hopefully my children will also be heroin addicts or the spare tablets will go to waste! (JUST KIDDING ;))
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Well at least you'll have happy children everybody loves the brown as long as there is a steady supply =P. I agree probably will last quite a while past the FDA approved expiration date. Who knows maybe the orange flavor really ages beautifully. You could be in for quite a treat.
 
Quick question bupe has a halflife of like 36 hours or something if you're doing bid dosing can it accumulate in the system over time and lead to a larger incidence of adverse effects or overdose?
 
syndeusys said:
Quick question bupe has a halflife of like 36 hours or something if you're doing bid dosing can it accumulate in the system over time and lead to a larger incidence of adverse effects or overdose?
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Yes it accumulates in your system over time due to the long half life....but you will NOT overdose simply from having buperenorphine build up in your system.....in fact I doubt you could OD on bupe by taking a shitload all at once....it just doesnt work that way....

...you might OD if your opiate naive and you take a large dose mixed with benzos and alcohol...but thats the only scenario I can imagine that happening in, and thats still a very tiny possibility
 
back and fourth back and fourth.
I've now come to a point where I do a sub one day, then the next day use heroin, and then the next day I might use heroin again, but then later that night take a little bit of sub when I run out of dope. If I continue a pattern like this I dont get precipitated withdrawals, as long as I keep my dope binges between 1-2 days, and don't exceed more than about six bags of medium grade dope.

For those of you interested in switching between, which is a lot from what I hear on this board. This is a good way to go about it. you just got to lower your bupe dose to a point where you can feel the dope and its enough to get you straight, and then you can switch back and fourth pretty easily. That way, if say after two days of binging on dope, you can take a day off and take a sub, even up to about 8 mg, and then get high at most 24 hours later, because there isn't as much sub half life in your system (sorry that's not very articulate.) The point is, usually, if you keep your suboxone dose under 8 mg, on a day when you don't have dope, it's not going to have nearly the same blocking effect/if any as if you've taken 8 mg daily for a week.

I also noticed, that if you shoot suboxone (not suggesting this) the waiting time to get effects from full agonist's decreases DRASTICALLY. were talking 12 hours. For instance. Yesterday, I sublingualled 8 mg and did 2 mg I.V (the previous two days I'd been doing dope, before that 4mg bupe I.V/day), today, I bout 4 bags of not even very good dope, and I felt a shot of just one bag. The high wasn't quite as good, but when I did a two bag shot, it was almost 100% effects.

Another handy tool to switching back and fourth is to load up on benzo's. I use xanax and K-pins. When I take a benzo with suboxone, I can lower my dose by half and feel just as sattisfied because of the effect of the benzo's.
 
Captain....you dont get that orangy taste on your tounge right after you inject some suboxone?

I know I taste it every time I shoot up some sub. EVERY DAY...without fail...im not sure why it does this...but it sure does do it...unmistakable...def not a placebo effect.
 
jamesBrown said:
Yes it accumulates in your system over time due to the long half life....but you will NOT overdose simply from having buperenorphine build up in your system.....in fact I doubt you could OD on bupe by taking a shitload all at once....it just doesnt work that way....

...you might OD if your opiate naive and you take a large dose mixed with benzos and alcohol...but thats the only scenario I can imagine that happening in, and thats still a very tiny possibility
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The only way you would overdose on just buprenorphine, is if you aren't a healthy adult. If you're an infant, or if you have some sort of disease/illness/respiratory disorder which restricts normal breathing, etc. then this might contribute to an overdose solely on buprenorphine.

However, for otherwise healthy adults, buprenorphine is extremely safe by itself, and an overdose on it alone is really impossible (there is an article documenting someone who took up to 80-90 mg sublingually and only had antagonist effects).

Any other case of a buprenorphine overdose (meaning a deadly overdose, not just "oops I took too much" though the word overdose can also imply that) would pretty much have to include another CNS depressant or another drug with negative complications/intense synergism with buprenorphine.

jamesBrown said:
Captain....you dont get that orangy taste on your tounge right after you inject some suboxone?

I know I taste it every time I shoot up some sub. EVERY DAY...without fail...im not sure why it does this...but it sure does do it...unmistakable...def not a placebo effect.
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I get a little taste from it (at the dose I do it's kind of unnoticeable) but the taste is more like dope... someone else started a thread in OD about this, surprisingly. I don't see how it manages to do that, it could be maybe due to an inactive?

It's not exactly "the exact same" taste as dope, but that's the closest thing I can compare it to. Nothing like shooting any other drug (and then having a certain taste in your mouth from it) that I've tried.

So it tastes like lemon/lime to you?
 
Yes it tastes EXACTLY like suboxone smells/tastes.

Its funny...back when I use to shoot up heroin all the time, I would do it with my one good "heroin buddy" everyday almost....and he swore on his mother that when he injected heroin, he could taste it on the tip of his tounge, and it tasted like the heroin we were shooting up.

But for some resaon, that NEVER happened to me and I thought he was crazy or was experiencing some sort of weird placebo effect.....

but now that I can taste my suboxone when I inject it, i believe him for sure.....Its weird....and ive yet to have the energy to try and research it to find some sort of scientific explanation.
 
jamesBrown said:
Yes it tastes EXACTLY like suboxone smells/tastes.

Its funny...back when I use to shoot up heroin all the time, I would do it with my one good "heroin buddy" everyday almost....and he swore on his mother that when he injected heroin, he could taste it on the tip of his tounge, and it tasted like the heroin we were shooting up.

But for some resaon, that NEVER happened to me and I thought he was crazy or was experiencing some sort of weird placebo effect.....

but now that I can taste my suboxone when I inject it, i believe him for sure.....Its weird....and ive yet to have the energy to try and research it to find some sort of scientific explanation.
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My money (for Suboxone and why it tastes the way it does when IV'd) is it's an inactive ingredient. I am not 100% sure though, I tried to do some research just now and got no evidence to support my one inclination, so I guess I could be wrong too, heh.

For heroin, it could also be a common cut. That's just my hunch though.
 
But how would that explain why I taste it on my tounge when it never even got close to my tounge?
 
Captain.Heroin said:
It's not exactly "the exact same" taste as dope, but that's the closest thing I can compare it to. Nothing like shooting any other drug (and then having a certain taste in your mouth from it) that I've tried.

So it tastes like lemon/lime to you? [/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]
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yeah, I think I've said that before on here too. at lower doses, .1-.2 mg shots , I will sometimes get that dope taste. I get the same taste when shooting oxycodone, and oxymorphone too. It only happens with bupe when you've tapered real low I think for a long period of time, because at that point you virtually have no opiate tolerance if your doing .5 mg throughout the day or less.

The lemon taste is certainly from the inactive ingredient. this happens usually when your doing a shot above 1 mg that is very concentrated, say 1 mg in 15 units of water. It's just like when you shoot crack with koolaid how you taste the koolaid.

I've been off bupe pretty much for the last five days, replacing it with an average of four - five bags of dope a day. Yesterday I took 8 mg cause I could only cop one bag, today I copped four bags and got high. I'm wondering though, tomorrow I'm planning to go back on bupe, is it possible that bupe tolerance will still have lowered, since five bags of heroin is really nothing compared to 8 mg of suboxone?
 
No your bupe tolerance probably HAS NOT lowered. And its not entirely correct to say that 5 bags of heroin is nothing compared to 8 mg's of bupe.....because bupernorphine is only a partial agonist.

Also....please dont use terms like "bag" on BL...that tells us NOTHING about the amount of heroin your doing. A bag could be any size and could hold any amount of heroin.

Also dont tell us the money amount of heroin ...becuase prices vary by geographic location therefore that is also not a very good way to judge the amount of heroin.

The best way we can tell each other on Bl how much heroin were talking about is to tell the amount in weight....and then describes the potency of it using descriptions of the color/texture/smell/high per weight/ etc....

Please try to be as clear as possible when posting on BL.....a "bag" could be anything. Where I come from..you call your dealer, tell him how much money you wanna spend($10, $35, $250, $1500, etc) and he puts the correct amount of heroin proportional to the money your spending into a BAG and then meets up with you to give it to you....thereore....how do we know how much heroin is in your bags?
 
my bad, if I were to equal the quality of each bag to say oxycodone, one bag would be like 20-30 mg roughly. The dope was off white powder, looked to be about 100 mg or so per bag. That was today. Basically, decent street dope. Big League stame (not that it means really anything)

of my four days of using only one day would I say the dope was significantly better, 2 bags equaling to the strength of 10 mg I.V oxymorphone, which I guess would translate somewere around to 90 mg of oxy, but that was just one day.

I'm so used to talking in bags because here in NY its usually about .1 g/x$bag.
 
I took some 3 10 mg methadones on friday and i want to go back to my suboxone schedule as soon as possible. I wish i never took those because i feel like i want to go get some more but ive been holding myself off with some weed. Im gonna try and take 2mg of suboxone and see if i get sick. I hope the methadone gets out of my system before i go back to the doc. I feel like im not worthy to have my suboxone because i slipped up twice.
 
If any of you wonder how much of some drug should be in your blood at most when you constantly take the same dose with the same span, then just try a graph with x and y scales. Let's take something with a half-life of 48 hours for instance dosed once a day. If you take 12mg daily, you should have 6mg left after 48 hours (actually in your system, not just blood) but you also took 12mg one day earlier so this is how SOME drugs with long high-life find use. You can get a very rounded result by drawing straight lines (how fast each dose is excreted) and checking at various points (drug quantity/time scale), results are going to be higher and higher but by each day less higher so you know that y => (some result).

Actually it's not only long half-life that's enough to make something a good drug, buprenorphine or methadone actually have something in common beside long half-life, they both have high protein binding. Comparing only those two characteristics with morphine's, it's easy to answer why after a single shot of morphine/heroin/any ester at C3 or C6 most is used up and the whole experience is so short. I'll better look for some methadone megathread...

- - -

BTW, patches with buprenorphine are easy to get (they're on regular script contrary to sublingual tabs or ampules). I cut the matrix into pieces and put into a solution of water and ethanol adding small heat so it releases the ester and buprenorphine stuck in it (possibly). Then I added citric acid and more heat. White mash-like substances started to precipitate, it was eliminated manually. Finally, when there was little solvent with added matrix and the solution was kind of milky, it was filtered and the clear solution was obtained. However, how much buprenorphine actually got into the final solution and how much acrylates did, I don't know. Besides lab glass and reagents this process had nothing to do with some serious lab work. Anyway, I obtained something that causes opiate-almost-naive people to get high even for 2-3 days but those are just anecdotal reports. Actually given that small amount of solution can be obtained and under profitable conditions, this might give better results taken sublingually. And I know lazy junkies just put the matrix under their tongue or chew it like it were a bubble gum and they're surprised they feel almost nothing after taking half a patch (it's buprenorphine freebase and that's not the best way for membranes to let buprenorphine in...). Just a side note to myself. Having heard about this like a year ago, I never actually tried to see how clean the solution can be if done correctly having pure bupe and 15,16-didehydrobupe.
 
mike_indy_317 said:
I took some 3 10 mg methadones on friday and i want to go back to my suboxone schedule as soon as possible. I wish i never took those because i feel like i want to go get some more but ive been holding myself off with some weed. Im gonna try and take 2mg of suboxone and see if i get sick. I hope the methadone gets out of my system before i go back to the doc. I feel like im not worthy to have my suboxone because i slipped up twice.
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man, this made me really sad how your wrote this dude. I have total compassion for you, because I've been in that boat many times, and I still continue to slip almost weekly. Now I don't feel bad about it though, because I told my doctor I wanted off the suboxone but she teamed up with my family are demanding that I stay on it. When I use full agonists I now have the mindset that I'm just switching to another drug for a little while before I get back on the other one.

I'm not sure how long you were taking those methadones, or if it was a one time thing, but if you just did it that one time, you have nothing to worry about. As long as you don't develop a habit to a full agonist, you can switch back to subs without fear of the prec. withdrawal. For instance, I took a day off suboxone, the next day shot some dope, and then a few hours later took two milligrams of suboxone, no problem.

The only time I had a problem with prec withdrawal was when I went off the sub for a week and was using opana and oxy 4/5x a day. That's the kind of situation you got to worry about.

I know your probably also concerned about methadone's half life, but you only took 30 mg, and by now there's probably very little of that actually left in your system since it's now sunday. I'm not sure if this is true, but my doctor said that buprenorphine at its cieling dose has the opioid activity of around 30-40 mg of methadone (can someone here verify this though? I've learned to trust facts here more than from doctors) If that's the case, if you caught a buzz off those methadone's, you'll probably feel a little warmth from the sub too.

as for the guilt, relapse is part of the process of getting clean. Some people relapse and relapse for years before they get it, others dont. Don't use it as an excuse, but cut yourself some slack. Opiate addiction is probably the biggest challenge I will ever have to face in my life.
 
Znegative said:
SIZE="3"] I'm not sure if this is true, but my doctor said that buprenorphine at its cieling dose has the opioid activity of around 30-40 mg of methadone (can someone here verify this though? I've learned to trust facts here more than from doctors)[/SIZE] If that's the case, if you caught a buzz off those methadone's, you'll probably feel a little warmth from the sub too.
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Thats a pretty general statement and if he's like most bupe dr's... he knows little about appropriate [maintenance & induction] dosage.... which of course is different than comparision of opiate activity/effects between bupe and methadone. I know bupe ceiling dose is supposely 32mg but it's more like 6mg for me... and my maintenace dose is 1mg.

MMT dose was 80mg for me though it's lower and [sometimes much] higher for others. I've never got "high" from bupe but I switched from MMT to SMT. The doc is probably going by some chart he saw to get licensed for SMT... I suspect he's not too far off for recrational users with no opiate tolerance. i do remember long ago when I had been off MMT for a few yrs [before my latest 15 yr run prior to SMT] I could get a real nice buzz on 60mg of methadone.
 
ok (i'm in similar situation to mike indy) if i wanna take a small dose of the sub to see how it goes is it still cool to IV it? thats my preferred way but i would hate to do anything that will make me go into these hellish withdrawals..
 
IV'ing suboxone will NEVER cause you to go into withdrawals, unless you had opiates in your system allready and it threw you into PW's.

Basically....IV'ing suboxone is no different than any other ROA, except it has a 100% BA.
 
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