Doctors who pretend narcotics don't exist

[dokomo]

I had gallbladdder removal surgery two months ago and was pretty disappointed when I got Norcos afterward. . 30 of them, 5mg and I had to ask for one refill. Those sucked and barely helped the pretty severe pain.

My doctor seems to think it is alright that I take 10 aspirin/tylenol a day, or 4-6 aleve. I am supposed to be a steel fence installer, but have not been able to work that job in 4 months after I had my back go out on me. It was pretty bad, the back pain was so intense it caused me to lose control of my bowels and I told him so. I told him I can't work and I don't care about anything but being able to install fences. Thought for sure I would get some kind of painkiller script.

I am waking up every single morning unable to sleep any longer because of the back pain, really I am going to call the doctor back and tell him to run another MRI or I will find another doctor to do an MRI because fuck quality of life, I have no quality of life being 29 and feeling 79 from my back.

When I was 14 years old and knew nothing of drugs, I had the same operation. Except that my gallbladder just stopped working and the pain is what caused them to find the issue. I had to wait 2 WEEKS with a dead organ inside of me to have it surgically removed. The doctor prescribed 2 darvocets every 4 hours 24/7 all during that time and after the procedure. Little did I know I was taking enough acetaminophen alone to fuck my liver over, much less the toxicity of propoxyphene. And of course it didnt control the pain well.

This was AFTER a GP put me on VIOXX because the pain I was having was "muscle pain" and I just needed to stretch and be more active. My normally couth and reserved mother told the doctor to kindly fuck off and we got a second opinion.

 

[Oppyandme]

I know because of the big Oxycontin scare here they are giving Opana out like candy. It is actually funny. I know this from 3 diff ppl who got their oxy scripts changed to Opana cause of the "hillbilly heroin" lol. meanwhile opana is the king of opioids.

 

[Laststop]

doctors are paranoid of having their license stripped away and 12 years of college down the tubes. It's sad how the DEA has used these scare tactics. It's a known fact the peoples pain as been under prescribed more and more frequently because of the DEA threat looming over the doctors head.

 

[MyDoorsAreOpen]

First, some good news -- I'm not the anti-opiate hardass I used to be. I've changed, after a presentation I went to by a really awesome pain clinic doctor. I'm still scared to recreate with them. But I now recognize they have an important place in medicine.

A couple things people here need to understand. One, most doctors have a favorite among each class of drug they have in their arsenal. Which one any given doc will prefer as their default is going to depend on a lot of things, especially who taught them and trained them, and financial circumstances on all ends. Unless they have some compelling reason to need to use something ELSE, that's what they prescribe for condition X. If most of their patients seem to get results from that drug, and it still remains available, then they feel no pressure to explore newer or better alternatives. This is true as much for opiates as for any other class of drugs.

Second, most docs do not consider a patient, who clearly has no education or training in the world of healthcare or pharmacology, ask for a specific opiate by name, a very compelling reason for deviating from his/her favorite toolkit.

My advice to those of you here who are miffed at your doc for lowballing a painkiller script when you were in legitimate pain, I recommend you use the script you were given, without argument. Fill it right away and legitimately, and start using it exactly as prescribed. If the pain is still unbearable after 10 days or so, make another appointment to see your doc in person, and bring the med he scripted you, in the original bottle, with the original label, with the exact number of pills remaining that should be there. A letter from a boss or manager affirming that you're still in a lot of pain and not of much use at work wouldn't kill, too. Tell him you're back because the pills he scripted you aren't touching the pain, and you're wondering if there isn't something else he could work up on you to better locate the source of the pain, which is why you're back there in person. Chances are much improved he'll up your dose and/or change your script to something stronger, after reexamining you. Because of your honesty and candor, he'll be able to rest easy knowing (and more importantly, documenting) that he's doing something medically legitimate.

Speaking of honesty and candor, I'm well aware that opiate abusers present and past just do not get the same efficacy from prescription painkillers for legitimate pain that opiate-naive people do. As a doctor, I would rest much easier scripting a higher starting dose or an unorthodox chemical to someone who was forthcoming from day one about their full recreational drug history. It's only fair I know, since I'm going out on a limb for them. It's a matter of documenting and being accountable, and has nothing to do with judging people. I would also have a set of conditions in writing, for a such a patient to sign, and would cut them off like a golddiggin' girlfriend if any condition was broken.

 

[DoseYouAll]

dokomo - That is a heinous story and you must know that it is in no way, fun at all to be on drugs with something like that going on. The surgery was a massive learning experience about drugs for me, I never knew pain that drugs could not touch until it happened. They cut me off after a saline bag of dilaudid was in me and also 200mcg of fentanyl because though I was still writhing in pain any more drugs would have stopped my heart. I cannot imagine anything like that lasting for 2 weeks, just insane.

Doors, that was a really good post. It does seem to be about a doctor's preference of what they prescribe which is based on their years of experience and pushing too hard for one type of med would raise some flags with most docs. I still wonder, how come in florida they get away with so much and yet in other states the docs are scared to prescribe anything at all?

 

[lightitup]

Seriously, it is getting crazy. Doctors won't help people who are genuinely trying to relieve pain. Their job is to make someone in pain or discomfort feel better the best that they can. A lot of the time an opiate is the right tool for the job, there just is no denying it.

My friend who had like 8 stitches in his foot only got a few (5 or something) vicodin, which the doctor barely gave him. I mean really...he was in terrible pain and went to seek out PK's to help relieve it because it just got ridiculous to deal with.

It is hard to find, but there are doctors who understand pain a bit and other disorders, and will help to work with you in a way that works best for everyone.

 

[Khadijah]

I can also see both sides of the coin, but opiates are insanely overprescribed in North America. I thought only the US, but Canada is supposedly the world 3rd largest consumer of prescription opiates (give me cravings even thinking of that!). No wonder everyone's doing dilaudid instead of heroin or opium like in other countries. At least dilaudid's safer to shoot though...

Even in very ancient times there was a great concern with opium (unlike say, with drugs like cannabis or magic mushrooms which more spiritually pure). Pliny the Elder warned doctors about using poppy-based medicines for patients with pain. China made opium illegal many centuries before the British forced them to accept their opium trade has an economic alternative to straight-out colonialism.

Simply put, opium is extremely dangerous, and has been noted to be so for millenia. No doctor has ever precribed me them except T3's after painful surgery. My theory is that pain is such a basic role in the human experience, that no counter-pain drug is without serious downsides. For opioids its a potentially life-destroying addiction. With NSAIDs its the chance of your gut exploding. LOL. You can't kill pain... just like you can't fight fire with fire... Drugs like cannabis or even valium are safer bets for those with tissue-muscle-or-joint pains. I know this from experience. But those too have undesirable side effects. Saying humans can figure out a way to eradicate pain is much like saying we can eradicate emotional pain like depression or anxiety. And look what that got us - amphetamines and SSRIs that make smack look like weed. And they give them to kids - KIDS!

Best cure for pain? Physiotherapy, exercise, and making yourself and others feel "good" through simple acts. Just like humans and other animals have always done. Sure, that's easier said than done. Guaranteed the average caveman would have traded the slippery slope of the glacier for the slippery slope of opiate addiction - while rotting in a cave without procreating, all by his fucking lonesome, like a typical 21st century schizoid man.

Hell, think of it. Even the ancient Greeks were worried about this "opium" thing coming from the East. Its evil potential could be easily intuited. It's fucking my life up and 95% of BLers. There is no God - he wouldn't have sent us cocaine or heroin, and if there is a God, then his Devil nemesis is doing a damn good job!

Don't complain about a doctor not tossing opioids at you. To me, that makes you look like a moron, unless you're someone over the age of 40 or 50 with a truly debilitating disorder. And this is coming from someone with a problematic attachment to opiates.

Your age has nothing to do with your pain yo. Young people get terrible injuries all the time. And just becuz you 40 or 50 years old dont mean your pain IS legit. Somebody my age with severe injuries that cause chronic pain deserves painkillers way more than some 50 yr old with " a backache".

I dont think people deserve em for minor shit neither, and when people who got minor aches and pains whine about not gettin somethin it does irk me....but im just sayin. The age of a person is fuckin irrelevant. you can get in a terrible accident or have other problems that cause insane debilitatin pain at any age. It makes you look like a moron to generalize like that. I know plenty of people under age 35, 40 or 50 who would not even be able to walk or function in any normal type of way without hardcore opiate scripts. It aint up to you to decide who "deserves" treatment or not yo.

 

[Cyc]

Speaking of honesty and candor, I'm well aware that opiate abusers present and past just do not get the same efficacy from prescription painkillers for legitimate pain that opiate-naive people do. As a doctor, I would rest much easier scripting a higher starting dose or an unorthodox chemical to someone who was forthcoming from day one about their full recreational drug history. It's only fair I know, since I'm going out on a limb for them. It's a matter of documenting and being accountable, and has nothing to do with judging people. I would also have a set of conditions in writing, for a such a patient to sign, and would cut them off like a golddiggin' girlfriend if any condition was broken.

As a BLer for many years, I'd expect no less from you. I wonder though, if other doctors would feel the same way about someone else's honesty, or if it would make them hesitant to prescribe opiates altogether.

 

[affasd]

most doctors know what things cause what kind of pain and know if someone is exagerating, if you are in legitimate pain you will most likely get what you need and if you don't then you need to find a new doctor. I had a really bad compound fracture of my lower leg both bones broke clean and the bigger one was sticking out of my skin, when I lifted my leg my foot would just dangle down it was only connected by the soft tissue. After the 3 surgeries in the week in the hospital I got percs I'm pretty sure they were 7.5s and I only needed 1 or 2 a day for a couple weeks after I got out(this is with 2 metal plates tons of screws and for a couple months an external fixator basically 4 huge rods actually screwed into the bone and coming out of my leg with a device to hold it in place). You can't expect to get oxycontin for most injurys because most injuries the pain goes away after a week or so after your body heals and prescribing someone some oxycontin is just a dumb idea because of the very high chance of addiction and the fact that it is just overkill for all but really serious injuries.

Think about it for most normal people percocet or even vicodin is fucking plenty for pain, so if the reason you are bitching is because 1 percecot isnt enough because you abuse them recreationally then you need to tell the doctor that, how are they supposed to know if you don't tell them.

 

[Moredopamine]

Although doctors could afford to be far more liberal with their prescriptions, the USA still consumes such a massively disproportionate percentage of the world supply of opioids that one shouldn't bitch about it (only applying this to the USA and a few other first world countries).

Twenty years from now, non-tolerance building opioids will be freely available at your local pharmacy without a prescription.

 

[Khadijah]

Affasd....Not everybody who got a high tolerance, who needs alot more than Percs or Vicodins, is somebody who abuses recreational opiates. you can be a heroin addict and be clean for over a year and your tolerance for shit like regular "normal people" doses of Vicodin etc will still be fucked. Long after you stop usin , you can still have tolerance issues. you might be a totally responsible person by that point who aint at risk of abusing your meds, who CAN be trusted , who legitimately NEEDS a higher dose and the thing is--You deserve it. Alot of people wouldnt agree, but the point of pain relief is to relieve pain, and if your pain is that high becuz your tolerance to the standard treatment is mad high, then you just need a higher dose. Its pretty simple. You are actually legitimately needin it. the reason why might suck, and it might be your fault, but that shouldnt matter. If you aint fakin it just to get more drugs bcuz you want to get high, and its that you really need more to have the right pain relief, then you need more, fuck the reason why.

Of course thats in a ideal world

 

[StaySedated]

i've had a similar problem with my doc and sleeping pills. it took A YEAR of going through stupid antidepressants and shit until i could get a benzo and relief from my severe insomnia

 

[Cyc]

Affasd....Not everybody who got a high tolerance, who needs alot more than Percs or Vicodins, is somebody who abuses recreational opiates. you can be a heroin addict and be clean for over a year and your tolerance for shit like regular "normal people" doses of Vicodin etc will still be fucked. Long after you stop usin , you can still have tolerance issues. you might be a totally responsible person by that point who aint at risk of abusing your meds, who CAN be trusted , who legitimately NEEDS a higher dose and the thing is--You deserve it. Alot of people wouldnt agree, but the point of pain relief is to relieve pain, and if your pain is that high becuz your tolerance to the standard treatment is mad high, then you just need a higher dose. Its pretty simple. You are actually legitimately needin it. the reason why might suck, and it might be your fault, but that shouldnt matter. If you aint fakin it just to get more drugs bcuz you want to get high, and its that you really need more to have the right pain relief, then you need more, fuck the reason why.

Of course thats in a ideal world

I think for people on maintenance, a doctor would either have to increase their done or bupe dose, or substitute for prescription painkillers.

Maybe you have a better idea though. I can't imagine a doctor giving someone vicoden while on a maintenance program. That would be pointless.

 

[Khadijah]

You got to consider there is also methadone maintenance, it aint just bupe....not every form of maintenance blocks opiates.

Anyways....Im curious how you mean "pointless" , do you mean its pointless to give a drug to a person whose receptors are blocked by bupe?

Or do you mean its pointless to give a narcotic to a person on maintenance becuz they are recovering from addiction and its "bad" to give a opiate to a person in that situation? meaning its pointless as far as the persons maintenance treatment goes becuz its introducing the same drug they had a problem with and makes the maintenance pointless?

Im just curious which one u meant. I can tell you more about it tho in my next post, cuz any reasonable dr does up your dose but ill get more into my experience with that later, first i wanted to see where u goin with that post.

 

[Cyc]

Hey Lacey,

I meant that on methadone maintenance, the dose for effective pain relief would be quite a bit larger than a dr. would normally prescribe, and therefore the regular xxx/apap medicines would be out.

On bupe, like you say, the receptors would be blocked.

 

[Jamshyd]

Didn't read all the responses but Cyc, have you noticed lately that some pharmaPlus stores started strutting those cute yellow sign that says "Narcotics like OxyContin are available ONLY by special order"? Yes it most definitely is a culture of narcophobia. My family doctor's clinic has signs all over the place that claims that "we don't prescribe narcotics".

Yet, said family doctor had no problem prescribing me a combo of dexedrine and xanax 8(.

Also, I noticed that many pharmacies, especially the ones at Walmarts, sport the cute "Methwatch" logo, as if to appease their American masters.

Practise your right: ask for AC&C or T1 200X packs every time you're at a pharmacy. Some pharmaplus no longer stock the 200X but ask for a smaller pack nontheless just to get on their nerves. They have absolutely no right to ask you why you need them.

Codeine phosphate in 8mg preparations is Schedule 3 (Rx, not criminal schedules) and by law they must dispense it if asked and no allergy verified. Same with things like apomorphine (not that you'd ever want that!) or chloroquine.

Then gleefully tell your doctor that these are not helping you either (doctors tend to jump back when they hear "AC&C" because they imagine they are esoteric things that common people shouldn't know about).

 

[Jamshyd]

MDAO: I agree with Cyc - you yourself are hardly a typical example of a doctor. Your garden-variety medical physician in N. America is socialized into a culture of extreme unquestionable authority and society gives them every right to feel that way. Now if Joe-doc actually believed he arrived at such a position through his own hard-work and exceptionality, what respect you would think he'd have for a "lazy junky"?

I really like all the advise you've given in your post. But knowing, as a sociologist, what kind of culture physicians and pharmacists develop their identities within, I'm inclined to recommend that drug-users keep their recreational history as far away from their physicians as possible, because chances are (and this is particulary true for BL), you actually know a lot more about your DOC's pharmacology than your doctor ever will.

After all, telling your doctor (honestly) that you have experimented with MDMA once three years ago will have absolutely no bearing on any present diagnosis and will serve to do nothing other than add a gigantic stigma to your medical file.

 

[Cyc]

Didn't read all the responses but Cyc, have you noticed lately that some pharmaPlus stores started strutting those cute yellow sign that says "Narcotics like OxyContin are available ONLY by special order"? Yes it most definitely is a culture of narcophobia. My family doctor's clinic has signs all over the place that claims that "we don't prescribe narcotics".

Every clinic and every pharmacy I walk into has these signs. It's creating a climate of shame and hostility when it comes to asking for effective pain relief.

 

[iameatingjam]

Lots of the time scripting somebody a painkiller is more likely to be more harmful (addiction potential) then just biting the bullet for a few days, resting and eating good. I'm talking about things like a pulled muscle or cough. You don't need prescription painkillers for these things. Not that I'm against their use for these things, but from a doctors perspective, it makes perfect sense to me.

 

[ChronicHD]

In the US, yes the DEA is a bitch. Also, a lot of states are starting to log all scheduled prescriptions to deter doctor shopping. Combine that with the constant bombardment from the press(and other media) about addiction, drug abuse, etc. and you could start seeing the situation they're in. I'm not saying it's right, but rather somewhat understandable.


Just out of curiosity, how old are you? From what I've heard, age and appearance can be factors.

Age and appearance DEFINITELY play a factor. There is no question about it. Anyone who tells you differently is simply wrong.

Another factor is how you go about asking for the prescription. Now I'm pretty sure it's against the rules here to actually tell you guys what has worked for me in the past, so I'm sorry, but I can't do that.

But what I can do is tell you what NOT to do. Do not be high/drunk/strung out when you go see your doc, this will not get you anywhere. And do not ask for a prescription, don't even mention the word, as this will be a warning sign to your doctor that you have other motives.