Psychadelic trips getting more intense for everyone

[Sega420]

This sounds like the onset of mania to me. I hope it isn't, but it sure sounds like mania.

tru dat

 

[tablehead]

tru dat

Get out of my thread sega420 and go back to playing video games and smoking pot, you're uneducated opinion which seems to be just you saying "tru dat" is not welcome here. If you would like to offer up some words of wisdom or some reason for believing that I am "developing mania" in more words than "tru dat" I would love to here it. Ive come to notice that people like you who think people experiencing anything spiritual are "crazy" usually were those annoying over-masculine jock/bully types in High school, who a) have no education and b) don't like to give their own opinion because they don't have one. Example: "Tru dat"

So learn some ENGLISH, gather your own thoughts/opinion and then you can post in my thread.

 

[tablehead]

Roger, you remind me of my older brother (that was killed in 1989 by a drunk driver) as he graduated Syracuse University with honor degrees in Chemical Engineering. Was big on math. I have all his leftover Godel literature that I might have to dig out and revisit. He too was angered by bad science but he also loved philosophical discussions of life and spirit and psychedelics. We've had many of great conversations and he had admitted as much as he loved chemistry and math it was the mystery of spirit that he found as fascinating. As long as it stayed in the philosophical area and no one was trying to sell it as science. So don't call yourself a lowly chemistry undergraduate. :D You are so far above that definition. Oh and my brother (as am I ) was/is a big Dead Head in the 70's-80's. He started me out with cassettes of live shows right after the 77 Englishtown shows that he was at. I've been one ever since. And as far as his occupation after graduating he declined any offers to work for oil companies and decided to take less money testing soil and making sure big corporations were not dumping toxins where they shouldn't be. It was a noble career.

Speaking of Hawking I was watching a show on a science channel about how Hawking and Susskind were making physics into a sport of "who's righter" on some information paradox. Very funny watching physicists. I also met a lot of cool people like that when I did visit Syracuse University for Dead shows.

I read that page above about the aliens. 8) I am still astounded that someone could post info like that with a straight face. That will be the day I believe an alien that I can't see is keeping me down. I've always known the power is within us. Tell it to go away if that's the case.

2012? I for sure see information exchange speeding up. That in turn will speed up certain growth for us as humans. I see something for sure but I'm not sure I can buy into anyone solidifying that into a whole package as science either. But with message boards like this we can talk about these things, where as back in the 1800's all we had to talk to was our drunken neighbor on the farm next to us. Things were slow then. The 2012 discussions I do find very interesting but only as discussion. I do appreciate all the ideas though.

You're talking bout that Morgan freeman documentary?? The debate/race between Susskind and Hawking was that Hawking stated that their was an information loss after an object entered a black hole and that the Hawking radiation emitting from a black hole was random and not dependent on the objects that entered it. Susskind pointed out that a loss of information is a No-no is basic laws of physics (there is never a loss of information) and wouldn't believe this was possible even with a factor like a black hole being involved. According to the documentary Hawking admitted defeat in 2006 and Susskind was victorious. He stated that now the consensus among him and Hawking is that when an object enters a black hole it is forever displayed as a hologram directly in front of the black hole. According to him this is also applied to us (our universe), this meant that there are 2 reality's, one in which we live and another one composed of all our information stretched on a flat 2d "film" on the edge of the universe.

Confusing as hell I know I didn't state it correctly but I got some basic principles of it.

 

[JackARoe]

^ I saw that one too Tablehead. Both Through the Wormhole and The Hawkings Paradox. Good stuff. They made a specific show on the "contest".

I may be a spaced out hippy after 35 years of ....uhem... %) But I notice much in the form of consciousness change. At least with me. Others seem to see some of the same things too. The collective experience of many people seeing the same thing and looking for maps is interesting. This isn't "I just believe", it is "I saw but what am I seeing".

 

[Solipsis]

I think these idea's are not much more than illusions. Information density is definitely increasing just about exponentially and it has done that for some time, but if you check Ray Kurzweils work on 'the Singularity' which is not some event with a projected date but an event where such high artificial intelligence is achieved that the whole development is thrusted to a level no one can really predict before it actually happens. That is the event horizon, you can't look past it until it happens, but it will probably radically change the world. We are feeling this exponential development much more now because we are what is called in the 'knee of the curve'.
The date is not something like 2012 but it's somewhere in a couple of decennia based on calculations that use Moore's law and tons of trends that are pretty much identical to it.

Other than that selective perception is very insidious, there are apparently some number of psychological effects in human minds like perceiving information better that suits the perspective you already have. Its like a self-fulfilling prophecy for the theory or metaphysical views that you are constructing, there is an infinite number of ways to look at things, look at what is happening nowadays and look at reality - and you can make a lot of them into something that is sensible to you.

I really don't think we are the only ones to think we live in a critical period in time, there are just developments that progress in such a fashion that it makes a huge impression - like how the world has gotten smaller - global communication.... a global economy instead of the many "islands" of autarkies. Borders are disappearing and so they are also disappearing in our minds, novel scientific discoveries are doing this as well and we marvel at it.

But I'm sorry... even though Terrence mcKenna had very interesting stories and theories he reminds me of the kind of theories I was forming in a period when I tripped on a LOT of acid. And while I held them as real possibilities at the time later I realized that I had far too many unfounded assumptions and made leaps that were simply too big to make the theories anything better than great fantasy with only separate elements of fact and truth. Elements that were synthesized into greater theories that seemed awesome but were really a house of cards with a lot of logical fallacies.
It's an interesting phenomenon: people who want to believe the same things you do don't see those fallacies but sceptics do. And, just like I once did, those sceptics are often rejected for being closed-minded. That's the kind of thing religious people do as well, I don't mean to judge anybody by any of this. Still I am glad I came back from that phase.

I recommend people interested in the subject of what the hell is going on with the world and the speed of progress to check some of the things I mentioned, check Kurzweil - he has been successfully predicting more or less near future developments for a long while and it's quite a bit more credible than the vague maya shizzle.
Of course I don't want to close my mind! So I won't shut my eyes from the somewhat wilder theories I was talking about. Never be scared to read about people opinions opposed to yours, otherwise you are being intentionally ignorant to save your own ideas.

 

[JackARoe]

It's an interesting phenomenon: people who want to believe the same things you do don't see those fallacies but sceptics do. And, just like I once did, those sceptics are often rejected for being closed-minded. That's the kind of thing religious people do as well, I don't mean to judge anybody by any of this. Still I am glad I came back from that phase.

I can agree with a lot of you say Solipsis But forget any 2012 theories though. They are, as you say, vague for sure. Saying that on that topic I will for sure look into Kurzweils. I am alway up for a good read. :D And I have the time now. Thanks.

As for skeptics, I am all for being skeptical to an extent. But back to say another topic that could include skeptical thinking. The subject of psychedelics themselves. Since many "ideas" can not be proven anyone, lets say a skeptic, who has not had a psychedelic experience could simply say that people in the Bluelight Psychedelic section are only screwing up their minds and they want to believe the same thing that others are saying so a forum exists. A skeptic could say the only thing DMT does is screw up a brain and these people live in a fairy tale of thinking there is some interesting thing going on and they look for similar things in other people's posts. Now that could be true... ... but I think most of us know the value of psychedelics beyond just "screwing up our minds". Nothing that could be proven. Insight, other than some solution to a physical problem that benefits everyone, has no meaning in a person who does not have any interest in an insight that someone else has. But what is the value of psychedelics then if nothing can be proven??

But this does skate too close to the whole Objective/Subjective subject and as we know can go round and round and round..... and everyone being their own expert.

But back on the topic of 2012 or Timewave as initially started on this thread, the only thing I can see that is different from say 100 years ago is an ever increasing speed in information exchange. We could never even have this conversation if the speed wasn't there. Does that have anything to do with "an omega point"? Who knows. But I am for sure going to check out Kurzweil to try and answer some of my own questions.

 

[Solipsis]

Of course it would be shortsighted to do something like equal all drugs to exogenous toxins that do nothing more than disturb and confuse. There is a horribly arrogant judgement call in there saying everything is well explained and understood about consciousness when we are sober, and the only thing that can happen when that consciousness is altered is that truth gets lost.
I think that goes far beyond a sound sceptical point of view to be honest, of course using the term sceptical point of view does not mean there exists a static perspective like that. Like I said back then I overestimated it and thought it was inherently closed-minded, that only held true because relative to my too-open-mindedness it really was more closed-minded. But not necessarily ignorant.

Take the effects of DMT, those are just such a huge challenge for others who have never experienced it themselves to interpret in a way that does it justice, not too little and not too much...
If you ask me, it's too open-minded to conclude from witnessing the elves that there must exist separate entities that inhabit another dimension. By that I mean I think it goes too far to believe that one such an elf exists independently of you and keeps on living after you die. Thats externalization, and it uses exactly the kind of dualistic thinking that limits our understanding of these kinds of phenomena.

On the other hand I think it's too closed-minded to consider them as delusions that mean absolutely nothing. Actually that seems to be a refusal to explain the experience whatsoever and shrug it all of as coincidental shreds of experience that are simply all groundless error, white noise.

My belief is that it really lies somewhere in-between: the entities do exist, just like dreams exist in their own realm, but they are figments of your own mind, crystallized but elusive reflections of your consciousness which is simultaneously integrated as one but still psychologically fragmented - like that of a schizophrenic for instance. These fragments produce activity and data that are transduced to and processed through parts of the brain that are built to perform pattern recognition on experiential (sensory) data to detect things like faces and living organisms. I think these pattern recognition mechanisms have been proven to exist and stem from another part of our evolutionary history to help us make sense of what is going on around us. Like timely making an outline of a predatory animal in the jungle before it eats you. Faces and expressions are probably from a later time when primeval man started to become social.
I believe DMT projects what is in our extremely powerful imagination plus our own personality onto what is around us and fuses outside and inside thereby adding the mental dimension to the Cartesian dimensions we usually perceive separately.

I always like to think about this, about the effects of DMT because they are so incredible - and this to me is a perfect illustration of how you can make too much or too little of something. Not that I am saying my middle-ground point of view is definite truth, I am saying be careful with extremes. At both extreme ends of the scale I believe people skip steps in their thinking, that seems to be what they have in common. The reason can be things like a lack of knowledge to make a better analysis or the fact that it lies too far beyond the things they are used to being true. It may require a paradigm shift to even be fit to perceive things in this other, new way.

Oh about Timewave Zero, I know about that one - FYI the ideas Kurzweil has are sort of parallel to it but much more concrete and using things as a sort of evidence to support his theory well. I don't think mcKenna really has evidence, it's rather that he has datapoints that seem to say 'this can't be a coincidence'.
Sure, with that you may conclude there seems to be going on here but not much more, so he shouldn't do that. And I think parts of the formula have been disproved but I am not entirely sure.
What remains is a very apparent exponential trend, to see the correct implications and deeper workings is quite another thing, and a terribly tricky one at that.

 

[JackARoe]

Those are beautiful thoughts on DMT Solipsus. I think my problem is I would never want to solidify my own belief system by even trying to guess, but what you stated was very clear and understandable as well as a good balance between too open minded and too close minded. Difficult subject to address that way too. I think I used the example of DMT as many people I have come across, who are very interested in science but have never had a psychedelic experience, believe this class of drugs only cause hallucinations which will in turn ruin the brain. Now that is closed minded and if we want to give Terence Mckenna credit for at least one thing it was the challenge of trying it yourself several times before judging. But what we see as a result are many more questions and less answers. It can reinforce there is at least more to the picture than meets the sober mind.

I am already on Amazon looking for Kurzweil books. I also have to dig out the Godel books I have had in a closet.

On the other hand I am also "seeing" the same things that Tablehead is putting forth. I do not know why. I would rather lay down and die rather than have to defend what seems to be an extention of The Age Of Aquarius" from the 60's. :D But I do see what you are saying. And I do not believe it's because I want to but it smacks me in the face the same way. It follows me. So what is it and why does it keep following me?

 

[greenmeanies]

i think the problem with timewave zero or 'the singularity' is the same problem with any doomsday prophecy. it tries to predict the future.

ancient proverb says: you can NEVER predict where the wind is going, but you can ALWAYS say where it came from.

we can only look into the past and use hindsight to predict the future. but we are ALWAYS wrong.

when is timewave zero? look at the clock. it's right now. wait, that was in the past. it's right... now. or now. or now.

i believe 'the singularity' is simply the present, bleeding edge of the invisible space-razor we call 'time'. it doesn't have an address or number associated with it because numbers and addresses are all in the past. 'the singularity' is always happening because every passing moment is ALWAYS different from the one that preceded it.

somewhere on the planet, someone is reading and learning and becoming self-aware. someone else is taking ideas from 400 years ago and combining them with ideas just created by hundreds of teens on iphones. the present is always filled with a seeming duality of old and new coexisting, combining, fighting, and re-forming. that is what makes it the present.

trying to predict the future is just fallacy. even 3 short years ago, could ANYONE have predicted that there would be millions of people just spouting off their random daily activities to people online? how about every 20 or so years when we realize that unstopping growth is impossible without a recession once in a while?

the present just HAPPENS, whether you plan for it or not. it is a living, organic combination of everything that has already happened or been spoken, combined with everyone's own personal interpretations, wishes, and dreams regarding those actions and words.

 

[Solipsis]

I think we are using the term Singularity in slightly different ways.

And it doesn't involve timewave zero, greenmeanies. I'd forget that, especially the part where it culminates in 2012.

What I was referring to is a very logical and seemingly inevitable point at which the evolution of intelligence develops as such a pace that it runs away from us. It's not necessarily a doomsday prophecy or anything Terminator-like, it simply means that we will able to build computers with such advanced hardware and software that it may at some point have the capacity of a large number of humans. Then it may be intelligent enough to develop the next generation which is even better, etc.
Yes there are a lot of problems that need solving to get there, but Kurzweil quite convincingly quotes many research projects that are in fact already happening now that are making the start with things like reverse engineering the human brain but even improving the way it works. The guy has made predictions in the past and like I said they came true. If you get too specific to try and imagine what totally novel things will be discovered and invented then you are definitely right: we can't, history has proven that things we expect to happen don't while other things we never could imagine with our previous frame of reference do. This includes your example of Twitter, but fuck Twitter, that is IMO just a hype. I don't care how many people do it, what real value to evolution does it signify?
On the other hand communication is a much more difficult field to make predictions of the future in than computing.
Computers just get better and better, it's not really such a far stretch to say that will just go on and continue. Additionally you can already see what research is being done now and say some things about the progress that is being made and the probability of it eventually succeeding even it it's estimated to take 20 years to finish and an addition period of time to spread across the world, or at least the part that can afford it.

The point of the term Singularity used here is not meant as a single moment but rather a period of time in which a radical change happens in the world of which the outcome is really virtually impossible to predict.

You say every moment is a Singularity, well then you are just using the term too freely - it's not immediately a Singularity if you can't deterministically calculate every event in the world. It is preserved for an event that may start as a discovery made that can be seen as the start of a cascade of other rapid developments that have such a fast and big impact that it represents an asymptote. I don't know I find the things Kurzweil predicts almost obvious if you look where the emphasis of technological research is being put right now. I'd say you can already see it happening. It's obvious up to the point of the start of the Singularity - large parts of his theory are so freaking sound, I can really get behind it.

He also has other predictions about becoming able to stop things like aging that are pretty wild. Here he again offers many pieces of proof / evidence - well the development of the technological abilities of man are at this moment baffling, even if few people can afford it, but try and extrapolate and damn something tells me they just be able to do it. But a big part of me just refuses to believe it, it just sounds so incredible.

It does makes sense that there would appear a split in society, where a part rejects these sorts of progress towards advanced AI and significant life extension of course including the part that can't afford it, and the part that goes along.
It may be very similar to how wealth is divided in the US. Eventually somewhere in the future the rich and technologically advanced may just evolve away from the others. I'd expect a big struggle.

 

[:{ d. }:]

We're nearing the Harvest for Fourth Density.

 

[Dr Mamba]

This have nothing to do in a psychedelic drugs forum.
If it stay here i'll make a topic about how i saw Mahomet on my last trip and how you are stupid to not belive in him and pray him 5 time a day.
Mistics, evangelists and religions, get out of there !
And yes i cant even speak good english.

 

[Roger&Me]

Mistics, evangelists and religions, get out of there !

You get out of here.

Anyone who's not being an asshole is welcome in our forum, regardless of the beliefs they happen to subscribe to.

You are not adhering to that guideline, so vanish until you can learn to do so.

 

[indigojoker]

You get out of here.

Anyone who's not being an asshole is welcome in our forum, regardless of the beliefs they happen to subscribe to.

You are not adhering to that guideline, so vanish until you can learn to do so.

Hey, what do you have to say about this?

Our brain is a map, and our minds are navigating it, when you take psychedelic drugs the mind quickens and sees constructions of the "future."

 

[Jabberwocky]

No serious physicist would continue reading that article past the first paragraph, because it's just so far off-base.

Thats almost true- I got past the first paragraph and was going to read the entire thing to take it absolutely to pieces, but having seen your post you've saved me the frustration!

i did get up to the bit about relativity leaving off and quantum physics becoming applicable before having to stop... cos like general relativity certainly doesn't apply in the centre of mass of something really massive? even children get this point!

 

[Liquid Sunshine]

Terrance McKenna said interesting things. He's said a lot of intelligent things, even. He also said a lot of silly bullshit that was based on a few misleading graphs that any mathematician would vomit all over if there were anything more than confirmation bias involved. The only people who take TimeWaveZero seriously are people who believe in it, and I believe that is because it has as much basis in actual fact as 2012 does; none.

I will be convinced when I see evidence. No sooner.